my dead monsters

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i need advise, my players are mad because i will not remove the dead monsters from the mat.  i am treating that square as having a body in it and pc's cannot move through enemies space.  is that square occupied?  should i treat it as rough terrain?  thank you guys, JT

browngsp@gmail.com

may name is George.  I am looking to join a group in Portland area.  I am an experienced player and DM.  I have been playing 4E D&D regulary since 2008. and other versions most of my life.  please email me if you need a new player.  thanks,  g

i need advise, my players are mad because i will not remove the dead monsters from the mat.  i am treating that square as having a body in it and pc's cannot move through enemies space.  is that square occupied?  should i treat it as rough terrain?  thank you guys, JT

I would listen to your players. Players and monsters alike, can move through and/or occupy a space that contains a prone creature (like a dead monster or dead PC). I can't recall the actual book and page reference for this, but it's in there.


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Catoblepi is partially correct. According to the Rules Compendium on page 314, you can move through a creature's square if they have the Helpess condition (not neccessarily Prone, though that is frequently associated with Helpess.) This means that dead creatures, either enemies, allies, or characters would have the Helpless condition and their squares would be able to be moved through.

Now, my friends and I have a houserule that states that a dead creature's square is considered to be difficult terrain. This is not rules as written, but it's just something that makes sense to us. 

Your players are correct, however, when it comes to rules as written.
i thank all of you for your advise.  now how can my PC's search the enemies for important stuff if they are removed them from the mat?

browngsp@gmail.com

may name is George.  I am looking to join a group in Portland area.  I am an experienced player and DM.  I have been playing 4E D&D regulary since 2008. and other versions most of my life.  please email me if you need a new player.  thanks,  g

You're putting too much thought in it. The monster is dead, it drops to the floor. The game rules leave it at that so you don't have to deal with corpses piling up everywhere. As for searching, if they are searching just say they find them on the corpses.
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i thank all of you for your advise.  now how can my PC's search the enemies for important stuff if they are removed them from the mat?


They're still present in the scene, they are simply irrelevant to the mechanics of the fight.

If you want a justification, the dead creature doesn't take up the whole of it's square, people can just avoid it.

Some monsters you do need to remember where the fell though, like trolls...
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
i thank all of you for your advise.  now how can my PC's search the enemies for important stuff if they are removed them from the mat?

The miniatures are removed from the mat for ease of play since they're irrelevent to the fight.  But the dead monsters are still there in imaginationland, of course, and can be looted.  If the location of the dead monsters is important for some reason, like a trap or something, go ahead and mark where they fell so you can remember later.

Reminds me of Neverwinter Nights where the dead monsters disappear and leave loot bags behind, unless I script it so that they leave bodies ... and that REALLY annoys the players because they can't find all the loot under all those piles of corpses.  Sorry, been working on a lot of scripting lately

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Removing minatures is important for clarity on the battlefield. But if the place the dead monsters occupy is important, you can put a token in the square the monster occupied. I do this sometimes when it's important and it doesn't hamper the other miniatures (the tokens I use are flat and thin).
I also use tokens when monsters or players throw weapons that can be picked up later or droped on the ground for easy reference when someone wants to pick something up during the encounter.
Removing minatures is important for clarity on the battlefield. But if the place the dead monsters occupy is important, you can put a token in the square the monster occupied. I do this sometimes when it's important and it doesn't hamper the other miniatures (the tokens I use are flat and thin).
I also use tokens when monsters or players throw weapons that can be picked up later or droped on the ground for easy reference when someone wants to pick something up during the encounter.

Martha Stewart tip:  if you don't use a wet-dry erase battle map already, or like to use tiles or preprinted maps, get a sheet of lexan and place it over your maps or tiles and you can draw all over your maps with dry-erase markers.  Makes it easy to mark locations.  Use electrical tape to cover the outside edges of the plastic though, since they usually are rough and somewhat sharp.

Further off-topic tip:  we use white poker chips to track monster HP.  One of my players will typically take charge of this and write down how much damage has been inflicted on each monster on a white poker chip with dry-erase marker, then place the chip next to the monster.  The chip can then be moved around with the monster and everyone can see how much damage has been done.  Since the players could track this anyway if they wanted, I just cut to the chase and let them see it right on the table.  Plus, it's less work for me.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

we use white poker chips to track monster HP.  One of my players will typically take charge of this and write down how much damage has been inflicted on each monster on a white poker chip with dry-erase marker, then place the chip next to the monster.  The chip can then be moved around with the monster

Although I track damage off to the side, I use these to keep them straight.

we use white poker chips to track monster HP.  One of my players will typically take charge of this and write down how much damage has been inflicted on each monster on a white poker chip with dry-erase marker, then place the chip next to the monster.  The chip can then be moved around with the monster

Although I track damage off to the side, I use these to keep them straight.


Those are officially awesome. 

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”