Bladesingers and Power Swapping?

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I'm planning on running a Bladesinger fairly soon, and I was curious how Power Swapping would work.

My main question is whether I would be taking an Encounter or Daily power swap feat, because Bladesingers kind of blur the line. I can live with either, but I'd like to know which type of power I'd pick up from the Multiclass (Daily or Encounter as Daily)

It's already been clarified for me that I can use Expanded Spellbook to pick up the additional "Encounter as Daily" per level.

Help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Your guess is as good as anyone's, there is no clear RAW.  Ask your DM.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

I'd say you'd have to take Daily power swap feat since encounter powers you add to your spellbook function as daily powers for you. 

That isn't really the question. There are two options: Either you take the daily power-swap and get a normal encounter power that you can use one/encounter (so an actual encounter power), or you take the daily power-swap and get a real daily power (i.e, something you can use one/day that is actually as powerful as dailies are supposed to be).

There isn't an actual RAW answer, either way.
IMO RAW Adept Power should let Bladesinger swap a daily attack power it knows for one daily attack power of the same level or lower from its multiclass.  

FWIW It was last discussed here 

Bladesinger Faily Powers: You add two 1st-level wizard encounter attack powers of your choice to your spellbook. The two function as daily attack powers for you.

Adept Power: You can swap one daily attack power you know for one daily attack power of the same level or lower from the class you multiclassed into.

But you're not swapping a daily attack power, you're swapping an encounter power that functions as a daily power for you.

It isn't an opinion that there is no RAW answer. Both are viable readings of the available text (such as it is) from the book. The only reading that doesn't function is probably the intended one, i.e., you'd swap an encounter-as-daily and get another encounter power that you can still only use one/day. So the only good answer to this question is: Ask your DM.
Bladesinger's Spellbook: Because the power functions as a daily attack power, you cannot regain its use from any effect that recharges encounter attack powers.
But if it function as a daily, is it one ? Would a Bladesinger be able to 
regain its use from any effect that recharges daily attack powers for exemple?
Bladesinger's Spellbook: Because the power functions as a daily attack power, you cannot regain its use from any effect that recharges encounter attack powers.

But if it function as a daily, is it one ? Would a Bladesinger be able to regain its use from any effect that recharges daily attack powers for exemple?

That would be the logical conclusion, based solely on that part of the text. The issue is the stupid encounter-as-daily rules cover nearly a page in the actual book and they are really not clear, one way or the other.
It makes sense that a Bladesinger should be able to swap one of its "Dailies" for another class', but having tried this before, the Character Builder shuts me down every time and won't allow it. For what it is worth, I have not tried swapping Encounters.

That said, as DM, I could see both arguments and would likely allow whichever the player chose. I really do not feel like this would create an OP character at all.

Honestly, I really think that the whole MC feats (outside of the initial feat investment) needs to be reworked. The Essentials classes confuse a lot of it, and make Paragon MC hard, if not impossible, for some characters. The new Unearthed Arcana MC idea might help this, especially with Essentials characters, but I really don't think that is the solution here. 
It makes sense that a Bladesinger should be able to swap one of its "Dailies" for another class', but having tried this before, the Character Builder shuts me down every time and won't allow it. For what it is worth, I have not tried swapping Encounters.

That said, as DM, I could see both arguments and would likely allow whichever the player chose. I really do not feel like this would create an OP character at all.

Honestly, I really think that the whole MC feats (outside of the initial feat investment) needs to be reworked. The Essentials classes confuse a lot of it, and make Paragon MC hard, if not impossible, for some characters. The new Unearthed Arcana MC idea might help this, especially with Essentials characters, but I really don't think that is the solution here. 



I generally like the entire system of Multiclassing in this game/edition. The Essentials and "oddball" classes can sometimes make it a bit more challenging though.

I think that it works like this.

A Wizard Encounter Power becomes a Bladesinger Daily Power when it's chosen.
So you would trade it out for a Daily Power from another class (anything but Wizard, I think)

My DM is a little overly cautious about OP PC's, so the likely response is just going to be "Don't Power Swap," but I was hoping for some kinda RAW to toss in his general direction.
I generally like the entire system of Multiclassing in this game/edition. The Essentials and "oddball" classes can sometimes make it a bit more challenging though.

I think that it works like this.

A Wizard Encounter Power becomes a Bladesinger Daily Power when it's chosen.
So you would trade it out for a Daily Power from another class (anything but Wizard, I think)

My DM is a little overly cautious about OP PC's, so the likely response is just going to be "Don't Power Swap," but I was hoping for some kinda RAW to toss in his general direction.



Now, don't get me wrong, I actually quite like the MC system in 4e (and the Hybrid system too,) as well as the Essentials classes. But they definitely do muck it up a bit :D

RAW is hard. You could make very valid arguments either way. As far as turning your Bladesinger into an overpowered machine, that isn't going to happen. It wouldn't make it OP in any way if you swapped Dailies.

Going by what the Character Builder tells me, however, is that I cannot do it. Maybe that's enough for your DM?
There is no discernable or clear answer from the rules as-written. Luckily we have the online Character Builder, and while not perfect does present the rules. Often as-written. While it is not a perfect resource, it is a resource to draw from. Not having a resource and using a negative argument that there is no answer as an answer is a fallacy, at best. 

Anyways, OP, it looks like you cannot get a clear reading from the rules. You can either go by what the only real resource with a definitive answer on the subject is, the Character Builder, says. Or you can try to get a rules clarification from Customer Service, though a word of caution that this is a less reliable method as the Customer Service answers are often contradicting.

Good luck!

Edit: You can also ask your DM for a ruling for your home game! Like has been stated, this ruling could go either way!
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Please remember to keep your posts polite, on topic and refrain from personal attacks. You are free to disagree with one another as long as it is done in a respectful manner. 
Luckily we have the online Character Builder, and while not perfect does present the rules.

No, it doesn't, and the idea that it does deserves nothing but scorn and derision from people who know better. Neither the CB nor the online Compendium are rules sources. Ever.

There is no RAW answer, there are three posible RAI answers. That is where the rules question ends.

Also brining up CS is just making this worse for you, they aren't a rules source either.
Luckily we have the online Character Builder, and while not perfect does present the rules.

No, it doesn't, and the idea that it does deserves nothing but scorn and derision from people who know better. Neither the CB nor the online Compendium are rules sources. Ever.

There is no RAW answer, there are three posible RAI answers. That is where the rules question ends.

Also brining up CS is just making this worse for you, they aren't a rules source either.




They work as an ok rules source as long as you assume that you go by whatever answer they don't give for complicated questions.  Because they tend to be wrong far more often than right.
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As the inventor and, as far as I now, sole player of the CS Game, yeah, I agree.
Luckily we have the online Character Builder, and while not perfect does present the rules.

No, it doesn't, and the idea that it does deserves nothing but scorn and derision from people who know better. Neither the CB nor the online Compendium are rules sources. Ever.

There is no RAW answer, there are three posible RAI answers. That is where the rules question ends.

Also brining up CS is just making this worse for you, they aren't a rules source either.



The online builder would show you which of the posible RAI answers some programer decided to go with.

a-Because he thought it was a quick and easy answer needing less work?
b-Because he runs the game and thought it is most balanced?
c-Because he plays the game and thinks it would help his character the most?
d-Because thats what the magic eight ball sitting on top of his moniter said?
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
Some programmer who works for a third-party company that communicates poorly with the development team, if at all (in many cases they don't, they just code whatever is easiest and leave it at that, which is why stupid things like Ninefold adding the Implement keyword to Dragonbreath exist). Yeah, stellar reason to use it a rules source.

What the CB does bears very little relation to the actual rules, because all the decisions are made based on how easy the answer is to code, not whether it is the actual rules. Add in the fact that it pulls from the same database as the Compendium, which is very poorly maintained and errors are basically never corrected, and you end up with something that is flat out unreliable.
All of the talk of the builder and compendium aside, I think the answer is, as has already been said, the RAW are unclear and you'd be best to just ask your DM how he/she wants to do it.

From my experience (which is by no means exhaustive) most of the Essentials classes were not intended to power swap. Many don't seem to be intended to multiclass or hybrid (even though those rules do exist). But, of course, as players/DMs of this game, we always seem to try to do something unconventional. And that's what makes table RPGs awesome!

My opinion: ask your DM and hope for the best. I don't think any of the possible interpretations presented here would "break" the character in terms of power.

I played a Bladesinger from levels 1-5 and absolutely loved it. It was a lot of fun! He wasn't a great controller, and he wasn't a fantastic striker, but he was a wonderful personality in the group and he did a lot of fun stuff. I think his best move was to run along the street, leap up (gaining 2 squares of altitude) and then using his Fey Step, get into range of a flying enemy. He hit with his blade, doing enough damage to bloody the target, then used one of his Bladesong at-wills (bladesongs? I think that's what they're called) to slide the target to the ground where the striker of the party was waiting. He fell and got hurt, but it was all worth it!

I love this game! 
Not directly on topic, just on the reliability of Customer Service
I told CS that the Compendium version of Storm of Punishment had an effect line where the source had a Miss line.  (IE, it had 1.5 damage instances on a hit)

They told me the compendium was accurate and reflected an update to the power.  (Spoiler alert: it didn't)

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

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