PEACH my half-orc warden

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I would greatly appreciate any input on this half-orc wildblood warden I've built for my game, a mid-optimized home game, beginning mid-heroic but statted out for paragon to give a sense of the direction I'm going with it. It should be solid as it's built off Belile's "The Wild One" (community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...), but his warden is a shifter, I've changed up a few feats and powers, and, of course, the game has changed quite a bit since his build 4 years ago.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Torqu, level 11
Half-Orc, Warden, Son of Mercy
Guardian Might Option: Wildblood
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Guardian

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 19, CHA 9

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 11, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 8


AC: 26 Fort: 24 Ref: 22 Will: 22
HP: 118 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 31

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +12, Endurance +10, Heal +14, Nature +14, Perception +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +9, History +5, Insight +11, Intimidate +6, Religion +5, Stealth +5, Streetwise +4, Thievery +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Half-Orc Racial Power: Furious Assault
Warden Feature: Warden's Fury
Warden Feature: Warden's Grasp
Son of Mercy Feature: Lawbreaker's Doom
Warden Attack 1: Thorn Strike
Warden Attack 1: Earth Shield Strike
Warden Attack 1: Wildblood Frenzy
Warden Attack 1: Form of the Fearsome Ram
Half-Orc Utility 2: Untamed Aggression
Warden Attack 3: Earthgrasp Strike
Fighter Attack 3: Rain of Blows
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel
Warden Utility 6: Bear's Endurance
Warden Attack 9: Form of the Oak Sentinel
Endurance Utility 10: Reactive Surge
Son of Mercy Attack 11: Dispensed Justice

FEATS
Level 1: Mark of Finding
Level 2: Toughness
Level 4: Battle Awareness
Level 6: Novice Power
Level 8: Spear Expertise
Level 10: Pin Down
Level 11: Adept Power

ITEMS
Hide Armor of Durability +2 x1
Adventurer's Kit
Javelin
Grasping Trident +3 x1
Recoil Shield Heavy Shield x1
Coif of Mindiron (heroic tier) x1
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +2 x1
Wrestler's Gloves x1
Belt of Vim (heroic tier) x1
Rushing Cleats x1
====== End ======



Thanks! 

Edit: forgot to mention: party is aforementioned warden, drow cleric/divine oracle, half-elf chaos sorcerer, halfling dagger rogue, and half-elf protector druid. So that should give an idea of the level of optimizing, some blue race/class combos with mostly sky blue and blue power and feat choices.
I would consider raising your con to 14 and/or Taking the thirst for battle feat. In my personal experience wildblood wardens find themselves a little short on surges compared to the con based builds and more initiative never hurts.

Form of Winter's Herald is what you want for your level 1 daily. Your Daily powers are what make you sticky.

I don't think spending a feat for a level 5 daily swap is worth it. If you want a similar effect take boiling cloud from warden dailies.

Level 7 off turn Guardian's pounce is a nice way to defend before initiative. As a Wildblood I prefer it to Earthgrasp Strike.

Take a look of the level 10 utility Enter the crucible. This is my favorite power at this level.
 
Thanks for the input, Veleria! Every warden build I've done before has made use of Winter's Herald (and for good reason), but, to cite its creator, "The build is an attempt at single target control and punishment by using the grab action to its full effect. At heroic tier, with a grasping trident, you should be able to single out an opponent and immobilize them from up to 6 squares away. Once grabbed, you can then punish them with rain of blows and rain of steel. At 8th level, a combination of earthgrasp strike (or form of the fearsome ram attack) and pin down makes it harder for your prey to escape the grab. At paragon, the punishment gets even worse via lawbreaker's doom." The combination of speed and charge tactics are intended to work at control and stickiness differently from Winter's Herald, etc. Am I mistaken in this belief? Are there new options that have come out since Belile's build so long ago?
That... really isn't a very good build. Which is probably why it got so few responses when it was posted.
Well, how about LDB's Wild Defender, then, with half-orc replacing his shifter?

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Torqu, level 11
Half-Orc, Warden, Pit Fighter
Guardian Might Option: Wildblood
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Guardian

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 14, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 18, CHA 9

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 8


AC: 27 Fort: 24 Ref: 22 Will: 22
HP: 118 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 29

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +12, Endurance +11, Heal +14, Nature +14, Perception +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +9, History +5, Insight +11, Intimidate +6, Religion +5, Stealth +5, Streetwise +4, Thievery +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Half-Orc Racial Power: Furious Assault
Warden Feature: Warden's Fury
Warden Feature: Warden's Grasp
Warden Attack 1: Thorn Strike
Warden Attack 1: Weight of Earth
Warden Attack 1: Wildblood Frenzy
Warden Attack 1: Form of Winter's Herald
Warden Utility 2: Nature's Abundance
Warden Attack 3: Burst of Earth's Fury
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel
Warden Utility 6: Bear's Endurance
Warden Attack 7: Guardian's Pounce
Warden Attack 9: Form of the Oak Sentinel
Warden Utility 10: Shield of Stone
Pit Fighter Attack 11: All Bets Are Off

FEATS
Level 1: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 2: Toughness
Level 4: Battle Awareness
Level 6: Sudden Roots
Level 8: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 10: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 11: Adept Power

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +2 x1
Frost Bastard sword +2 x1
Magic Javelin +2
Lifeblood Hide Armor +2 x1
Belt of Vim (heroic tier) x1
Boots of Eagerness x1
Casque of Tactics (heroic tier) x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Salve of Power
Heavy Shield x1
====== End ======



There is much discussion about whether or not it was up to snuff at the time. Are there recent changes to the game anyone would suggest to improve this? 
 
Pit Fighter got errata'd, so that build is dead.
Would you suggest abandoning the build entirely, substituting in Son of Mercy (with possible changes to the build?), or something entirely different?
Would you suggest abandoning the build entirely, substituting in Son of Mercy (with possible changes to the build?), or something entirely different?

Wildblood Warden is a pretty straight forward build, if that is what you want to do. Both of the posted builds were attempts to come close to matching the power of a Fighter, primarily by stealing powers... neither of them really come close. LDB's kind of did, at the time, but I recall him saying at the time he just wanted to build a Warden and that was the best he could do.

It is kind of hard to beat Dwarf for any Warden build. You lose 1 AC for starting with 16 Wis, but you also gain access to 17 Con by Epic from the racial split, opening up some great feats, SW as a minor, and Dwarven racial feat support is stellar for a Warden and for a Fighter (which, of course, you'll be MCing into via Battle Awareness).
Even more to the core of the issue, by playing a warden, you are accepting that you are playing a slightly to dramtically worse defender than a fighter will be to get some flavor and toughness.  I'm really not looking forward to epic with my ES warden : /  Sure it'd take a miracle to kill me, but if my DM wasn't charitable with mark respect, I'd have a lot less presence on the battlefield.
Should anyone still follow this thread (or jump in in media res), I'm trying another tack with this character, refitting him as a fighter with warden multiclassing to capture some of the flavor of what I was shooting for originally without sacrificing what the fighter can do best (and better than the warden) as a defender. Once again, I would value any feedback.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Torq, level 11
Half-Orc, Fighter (Weaponmaster), Horned Champion
Build: Great Weapon Fighter
Fighter Option: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents Option: Arena Training
Arena Training Option: Arena Training (Fullblade)
Arena Training Option: Arena Training (Drow long knife)
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Guardian

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 12, DEX 20, INT 9, WIS 15, CHA 11

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 11, DEX 15, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 10


AC: 27 Fort: 24 Ref: 22 Will: 19
HP: 96 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 24

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +14, Endurance +12, Intimidate +12, Perception +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +7, Heal +7, History +4, Insight +9, Nature +7, Religion +4, Stealth +9, Streetwise +5, Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Half-Orc Racial Power: Furious Assault
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Cleave
Fighter Attack 1: Weapon Master's Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Steel Serpent Strike
Warden Attack 1: Form of Winter's Herald
Fighter Utility 2: Glowering Threat
Fighter Attack 3: Bull Charge
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter Utility 6: Kirre's Roar
Fighter Attack 7: Come and Get It
Fighter Attack 9: Jackal Strike
Fighter Utility 10: Clearheaded
Horned Champion Attack 11: Zealous Strike

FEATS
Level 1: Mark of Finding
Level 2: Defender of the Wild
Level 4: Thirst for Battle
Level 6: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 8: Wintertouched
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Lasting Frost

ITEMS
Lifeblood Hide Armor +2 x1
Frost Fullblade +3 x1
Amulet of Life +2 x1
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Magic Drow long knife +2
Adventurer's Kit
====== End ======

Wardens do fine in pratice you need to remember that this is the optimisation board.

Is the warden the most optimal defender? No. 
Is the Warden a capable and fun character to play? Yes.

So you need to ask yourself are you playing in an opimised game with and optimised DM? If the answer is no (and 90% of the time is is) then warden will do just fine.  

My warden (Dwarf Earthstrengh) more than held his own and did his job well. 
My warden (Dwarf Earthstrengh) more than held his own and did his job well. 

Dwarf ES Wardens are about as optimized as ES Wardens get... so I would certainly hope your near the top of the possible optimization curve for Wardens did well in a normal-op game.
Even in an optimized game, wardens can do very well as the primary defender.  Font of Life is a very nice ability.

I never see the point in telling people to switch classes when optimizing.  I think there's a difference between viewpoints on optimizing meaning "play the best character you can" and "play the best character you want to play."  Otherwise, there would be no defender BUT the fighter. 
Thanks, folks, for the feedback. I agree, Vhex, that there is a huge difference between those two ways to optimize, and I am certainly of the latter variety. Nevertheless, the character I want to play is a half-orc defender who charges into the thick of things at the beginning of combat, swinging a sword two-handed, locking down enemies through the threat he presents, and relying upon mobility and speed to make the best use of his racial profile. Even in a low-medium OP home game, it seems the best way to reproduce this mechanically is via fighter. And I can add in the warden multiclass for flavor and a mechanical piece or two without hampering the build and its ability to do its job well.

Dwarf Earthstrength and Goliath polearm builds can be very effective defenders, for sure, but I doubt there is anyone on THESE boards who thinks a half-orc Warden swinging a big sword can be built effectively for this role.
Thanks, folks, for the feedback. I agree, Vhex, that there is a huge difference between those two ways to optimize, and I am certainly of the latter variety. Nevertheless, the character I want to play is a half-orc defender who charges into the thick of things at the beginning of combat, swinging a sword two-handed, locking down enemies through the threat he presents, and relying upon mobility and speed to make the best use of his racial profile. Even in a low-medium OP home game, it seems the best way to reproduce this mechanically is via fighter. And I can add in the warden multiclass for flavor and a mechanical piece or two without hampering the build and its ability to do its job well.

Dwarf Earthstrength and Goliath polearm builds can be very effective defenders, for sure, but I doubt there is anyone on THESE boards who thinks a half-orc Warden swinging a big sword can be built effectively for this role.



A Fighter|Warden hybrid can be a very effective solution to that problem - you do lose the automatic mark all capabiilty, but then you have a consistent punish on a shift capability. You can go Str/Dex to hybrid something from Fighter or Str/Wis to pick up Wildblood.
Fighter|Warden gains especially when using a Reach weapon since the Fighter can then mark at reach while Warden's Fury punishes at reach.
Even in an optimized game, wardens can do very well as the primary defender.  Font of Life is a very nice ability.

I never see the point in telling people to switch classes when optimizing.  I think there's a difference between viewpoints on optimizing meaning "play the best character you can" and "play the best character you want to play."  Otherwise, there would be no defender BUT the fighter. 

Font of Life is a decent ability. Considering it doesn't apply to the conditions most often inflicted (Dazed/Stunned unti EoNT) that deny you the ability to be a defender, it becomes pretty marginal. Most of the time you'll be saving against ongoing damage or something equally silly, but you don't care about ongoing damage, you're an HP sponge.

Not true, nearly all defenders have an Ultimate Defender build.

And look at his fluff, it doesn't really suit the Warden, so suggesting he build a different class is fine.
I would disagree that font of life becomes marginal in that scenario.  It's definitely useless against EoNT effects, but you can still save versus things like ongoing damage (take less damage), slowed (allow for gap closing while dazed), etc before your turn.  It's situationally useful, but what in a game where you have a DM isn't?  And, depending on your build, Warden stat synergy with Superior Will solves the other part.

That said, my favorite Warden was a Warden/Fighter.

While many defenders have an Ultimate Defender build, I just reviewed the list and I still don't see one that performs better than those that have fighter components.  But I also don't think that's a discussion for this thread.

My apologies, though, I read the first post as wanting to play a Warden and the first few responses as "Don't play a warden."  As darkwarlock posted, he/she is fine with changing classes.
I think "don't play a hybrid warden" is pretty sold advice, as the warden loses far too much while hybriding. Either a straight fighter or a warden/fighter will be much better than a warden|fighter.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I think "don't play a hybrid warden" is pretty sold advice, as the warden loses far too much while hybriding. Either a straight fighter or a warden/fighter will be much better than a warden|fighter.



Indeed, wardens lose most of the class features when hybriding, and you HAVE to use HT to geta passable AC.
I think "don't play a hybrid warden" is pretty sold advice, as the warden loses far too much while hybriding. Either a straight fighter or a warden/fighter will be much better than a warden|fighter.



Indeed, wardens lose most of the class features when hybriding, and you HAVE to use HT to geta passable AC.



Why does a Str/Dex race need to use HT to get a passable AC?

Hybrid Wardens have to make roughly the same investment to punish shift+charge that a regular Warden does, yet they don't naturally multi-mark and their powers don't mark when being used to attack. Hybrid Fighters have problems because they don't mark with the attack powers from the other class. And if a target isn't adjacent to them, they can't interrupt, even if they have a reach weapon.

i.e. the two hybrid classes naturally solve the problem of the other hybrid class and do combine to make a solid Defender. Fighters who naturally dual-mark while doing single-target multi-attack powers(aka Rain of Blows) can create a lot of issues - they get to do damage without necessarily giving up control.

And that also creates a very straightforward nova round via Rain of Blows+Wildblood Frenzy - 5 attacks without using up your minor or your move and also marking the other target that you're not actually attacking. Or Come And Get It+Roots of Stone if you want burst control instead.

Rain of Blows+Wildblood Frenzy+Oath of Enmity+free action mark by 3rd level is definitely something that will get the attention of your DM...
What does it bring to the table that a full on fighter doesn't?  What does it do better than a paladin|fighter?  The stright fighter doesn't let enemies get a square away to have to punish them there, the paladin|fighter gives up negligible mass marking for what it gets in return, and can actually defend in epic.  Dex has little synergy with either class, other than RoB, and if you're building for that, why not just make a striker instead?
What does it bring to the table that a full on fighter doesn't?  What does it do better than a paladin|fighter?  The stright fighter doesn't let enemies get a square away to have to punish them there, the paladin|fighter gives up negligible mass marking for what it gets in return, and can actually defend in epic.  Dex has little synergy with either class, other than RoB, and if you're building for that, why not just make a striker instead?



It brings at-will, free action marking to single-target Fighters without giving up the MC slot. That free action part is important when you have a bunch of options that involve spending a minor action and you need to move because you're actually going first due to your high Dex+initiative boosting feat.

Plus, as a hybrid Defender|Defender, you have access to two Rapid Epic feats instead of just one and Guardian's Pounce via Reserve Maneuver. It is possible to create a quad-tap interrupt with those 3 options(+Mobile Warrior and Long Step feats) when a marked target shift+charges a friend of yours and then triggers all of them+OA in Epic.
I would disagree that font of life becomes marginal in that scenario.  It's definitely useless against EoNT effects, but you can still save versus things like ongoing damage (take less damage), slowed (allow for gap closing while dazed), etc before your turn.  It's situationally useful, but what in a game where you have a DM isn't?  And, depending on your build, Warden stat synergy with Superior Will solves the other part.

That said, my favorite Warden was a Warden/Fighter.

While many defenders have an Ultimate Defender build, I just reviewed the list and I still don't see one that performs better than those that have fighter components.  But I also don't think that's a discussion for this thread.

My apologies, though, I read the first post as wanting to play a Warden and the first few responses as "Don't play a warden."  As darkwarlock posted, he/she is fine with changing classes.

And you would be wrong. Damage is irrelevant to a Warden and Font of Life is "nice." Not good, certainly not great, nice, but if you go and look at the things that actually prevent you from doing your job (defender) and then look at how often those things are applied as (Save Ends) you'll see that the 55% chance of Font of Life has of giving you your turn back comes up... hardly ever, till Epic, when most defenders stop functioning anyway. And even then, you may have already lost an Immediate/OA that you needed to be able to take to do your job. Unless the DM is creating custom monsters to make you feel warm and fuzzy about Font of Life, in actual play it ends up being a nice bonus and that is it. Caveat: I assume tactically competent DMs, regardless of optimization level. Superior Will actually solves the problem, as much as the problem can be solved, and since anyone can get it...

Straight Paladin (in Epic) and SM|Lock (Paragon+) and Paladin|Lock (Paragon+) both perform as well (if not better) than the vast majority of Fighter builds. I'm going to make a non-stretch assumption and assume you've never seen half those builds in play. I've seen all of them in play, through all tiers. As is true of nearly every optimized build, there are subtleties that are not obvious till you see them in play.

This is the optimization forum, telling him not to play a Half-Orc Warden is the correct advice, because it is a bad idea mechanically. Not unsalvageably so, for a low-op game, but a bad enough idea that he needs to know, but the fact that it also doesn't really fit his fluff means the best advice to give him is: don't do this. Which is the advice he got.
And I am most grateful for the advice and the useful conversation this has engendered. Yet I wonder if anyone looking at my subsequently posted fighter build has quarrel, suggestion, critique, etc. with any of the choices there, especially in light of the fluff I posted afterwards.
Fluff-wise you might want to make a pole-arm fighter with MC barbarian. It still gives you a good defender base and the Barbarian powers (storm of blades comes to mind, and there are some great rages out there) give you that Primal fluff you are looking for. Shame the half-orc isn't fit well for the warden class. 
Damage is irrelevant to a Warden



I'll have to bow to your wisdom in that regard, I had previously believed that "not taking damage you don't have to" was relevant to all classes.

I posted about the stat synergy with Wardens and Wisdom because Superior Will is a silly option to dump extra stats into if you have zero synergy, which -- while it's not restricted from all classes, makes it less available until you do have that synergy.

I'll reiterate that we have a different view on optimization.  I don't think optimization should boil down to "play these five classes and nothing else."  I also have played (and am among the few who won) competitively and in many games where status effects matter.  If you haven't, I understand and can see where your opinion comes from.

Regardless, backhanded, passive-agressive comments like "non-stretch assumption" regarding your belief of my inexperience do not lend well to a constructive conversation.  We can disagree civilly, although from what I see lately this is not the forum for that either.

I have already apologized for misunderstanding that the original poster was very open to changing classes, there's no reason to continue flogging that.  Nor should we continue clogging this thread with our difference of opinions.  If you'd like to start a separate thread and can remain civil, I'd be happy to further discuss.
Let's stop the ignorance train right there.

1.  If you play in a game where "statuses don't matter", your DM is bad.
2.  If you think Superior will is not AMAZING for every character that can get it, you are bad.

I think I covered everything.
Superior will is one of the many reasons that wildblood wardens (str-wis) are by far the most effective.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true">I'll have to bow to your wisdom in that regard, I had previously believed that "not taking damage you don't have to" was relevant to all classes.

I posted about the stat synergy with Wardens and Wisdom because Superior Will is a silly option to dump extra stats into if you have zero synergy, which -- while it's not restricted from all classes, makes it less available until you do have that synergy.

I'll reiterate that we have a different view on optimization.  I don't think optimization should boil down to "play these five classes and nothing else."  I also have played (and am among the few who won) competitively and in many games where status effects matter.  If you haven't, I understand and can see where your opinion comes from.

Regardless, backhanded, passive-agressive comments like "non-stretch assumption" regarding your belief of my inexperience do not lend well to a constructive conversation.  We can disagree civilly, although from what I see lately this is not the forum for that either.

I have already apologized for misunderstanding that the original poster was very open to changing classes, there's no reason to continue flogging that.  Nor should we continue clogging this thread with our difference of opinions.  If you'd like to start a separate thread and can remain civil, I'd be happy to further discuss.

Let me clear that up for you: damage only matters insofar as it limits your ability to make it to the end of your work day with the HP/surges you have access to. For Wardens this is basically never an issue.

Incorrect, if you don't have Cha or Wis as a primary or secondary you have to seriously consider your stat allocation. The correct optimization decision for Str/Con Wardens these days is to drop con by 2 and bump wis by 2 so you can get Sup. Will Paragon. -1 AC/-1 Surge/-2 hp is worth +1 Will (over Imp. Defenses, you may go Sup Fort+Sup Will and just dump your Ref) and the ability to save at start of turn. Why? Because Daze/Stun prevent you from doing your job and vs Will attacks tend to be the ones that Daze/Stun, so that is a two-fer. vs AC attacks are usually damage. See earlier point about damage. In the meta-game this has made any build that can't afford to drop a secondary a little and doesn't natively have Cha or Wis an inherently non-optimal choice. Which is unfortunatre, but a mathematical reality. Now whether you want to play those classes anyway isn't a question I can answer, but I certainly don't believe optimization boils down to playing five classes, but it does boil down to not making bad decisions. If you're starting in Epic (which is unusual), then the decision is easier because you can put your 13 into either Wis or Cha.

I am paid to professionally DM and have more actual play experience with 4e than any other single person on this forum, both as a player and a DM. Literally ~30-40 hours a week since 4e released. There is a difference between "status effects matter" and "This particular Save Ends status effect matters at the start of your turn." Save Ends is supposed to be worse then EoNT, the reality is EoNT is usually worse and in thousands of hours of seeing Wardens played and playing them, I've seen Font of Life critically matter twice (and one of those wasn't because of the status effect, it was because of the U2 utility that mass-marked in Burst 5 when you saved+a shenangian based Wildblood build) . If you have less experience than me, I can understand where the distinction might be lost on you.

Well, 1.) I was right and 2.) seeing builds in actual play matters to understanding them.

Thread topic is basically done, he switched to a Fighter and has a reasonable  build for it.

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