Good Paragon Path for current build?

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I put together a Human Fighter|Ranger for a friend.  It uses a Spiked Chain and I was wondering what CO suggests for the PP to maximize DPR.  I know Stormwarden is a popular choice.  I didn't know if maybe there was another PP that's also good for damage.
Sig
Yes, I killed your BBEG with his own lair:
Setting: Tomb with a perilous bridge and cliff 100 feet above a lava pit. Mummy pops out of his sarcophagus, initiative: Felix, Half-Elf Artificer: Twin Strike with crossbow. Trump (ala Donald), Eladrin Warlord: Charges mummy with Opening Shove, pushing off the cliff. Mummy fails saving throw, and falls into pit. Sanshiro (ala Japanese "superhero" Segata), Minotaur Barbarian: Strength check to lift sarcophagus and carry to cliff. Free action, drop sarcophagus into square above mummy. Sarcophagus drops on mummy, shoving him further down into lava. Mummy: proceeds to make a series of horrible athletics checks to swim and climb cliff. Dies a horrible death with lava permeating every orifice. Entire Party: Watches on in delight, faces alit with the glow of lava and flaming undead.
Original CharOpper
I soap myself up, and turn up the hot water in the shower, so my sweat mixes with the soap, slickening my skin: +5 to grapple I use my own legs as a shield since only upper-body hits matter: +5 defense I use my teammates bodies to construct a vehicle for myself, and dual-wield their weapons because as long as I win, we all win: +10 attack, +10 defense I completely ignore the enemy, their attacks, the devastating damage they are dealing to me and my team, and strike directly for their base, completely obliterating them, their way of life, and any chance they had at survival as a species: WIN Ender: The Original CharOpper and Power Gamer.
Hm.  Doesn't seem all that great.  The AP benefit could be nice on a nova turn, but other than that, the +2 to hit doesn't seem that great, and I wouldn't be using the encounter or daily power since I'm using a spiked chain.
Sig
Yes, I killed your BBEG with his own lair:
Setting: Tomb with a perilous bridge and cliff 100 feet above a lava pit. Mummy pops out of his sarcophagus, initiative: Felix, Half-Elf Artificer: Twin Strike with crossbow. Trump (ala Donald), Eladrin Warlord: Charges mummy with Opening Shove, pushing off the cliff. Mummy fails saving throw, and falls into pit. Sanshiro (ala Japanese "superhero" Segata), Minotaur Barbarian: Strength check to lift sarcophagus and carry to cliff. Free action, drop sarcophagus into square above mummy. Sarcophagus drops on mummy, shoving him further down into lava. Mummy: proceeds to make a series of horrible athletics checks to swim and climb cliff. Dies a horrible death with lava permeating every orifice. Entire Party: Watches on in delight, faces alit with the glow of lava and flaming undead.
Original CharOpper
I soap myself up, and turn up the hot water in the shower, so my sweat mixes with the soap, slickening my skin: +5 to grapple I use my own legs as a shield since only upper-body hits matter: +5 defense I use my teammates bodies to construct a vehicle for myself, and dual-wield their weapons because as long as I win, we all win: +10 attack, +10 defense I completely ignore the enemy, their attacks, the devastating damage they are dealing to me and my team, and strike directly for their base, completely obliterating them, their way of life, and any chance they had at survival as a species: WIN Ender: The Original CharOpper and Power Gamer.
I assume you have Dex as a strong secondary if you're going spiked chain? Also, are you MC Spiked chain? My following comments are assuming you have the build set up that way.

If you're looking for DPR, a good choice would be Shock Trooper. There's about a hundred feats that make light-blades (MC Spiked Chain) Do obscene things with CA (Deft Blade and the like,) and the PP will upgrade the offhand portion of the weapon to D10. The PP also allows you to use your Dex mod for free bonus damage once per turn when you have CA. As a melee striker, you want CA for the +2 to hit, and as a light-blade user, you want it for the crazy light-blade feats. Additionally, you are using a Flail/Light blade, so you qualify for flail expertise & Dragging flail for the "prone whenever I hit anything ever."

The powers essentially are just multi-attacks (some single, some multi-targeting) and the rest of the features aren't half bad.
Spiked Chain is for most purposes made worse by Shock Trooper's die bump, 2d4 being a markedly better distribution than the 1d10 it becomes.

I agree on that point. Shock Trooper is much more effieicient with twin offhand weapons as a Tempest fighter or Tempest Fighter/Ranger (Twin d8 +3 dmg shortswords.) That being said, the average damage on the D10 is .5 higher, and it has a higher crit damage (as much use as that will get.)

Consider Dragonborn for a race if you do end up picking up the flail cheese. Draconic Arrogance (Feat, lvl 11, fighter, dragonborn) allows you to deal your STR mod in damage any time you push a target or knock it prone. There's also a fighter stance that allows you to push a target 1 and slide to the square it left every time you hit it. This lets you game the bazeesus out of Draconic Arrogance, so your multi-attacks do your primary modifier twice. Even if you just grab the flail cheese, +STR mod dmg on a STR based class once per round is brutal.
Kensei is always an option if you like to keep things simple.

Or you could go Adroit Explorer for double Rain of Blows and some extra goodies.
Or Dreadnought for a double attack and some other stuff.

E: though, on a Fighter|Ranger you've got a strong argument for Blade Dancer.  Better defences, and an off-turn attack to punish the DM for focusing on you adds up to some interesting tools for your catch-22 box.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

E: though, on a Fighter|Ranger you've got a strong argument for Blade Dancer.  Better defences, and an off-turn attack to punish the DM for focusing on you adds up to some interesting tools for your catch-22 box.



I'm changing my vote to this.

Still, Dovahkin is the way to go for fighters who intend to multiattack, especially if they're going to use a light blade/flail.
 Pathfinder is a strong defensive choice if you want to lean more defensive with a good nova bonus on AP.

E: though, on a Fighter|Ranger you've got a strong argument for Blade Dancer.  Better defences, and an off-turn attack to punish the DM for focusing on you adds up to some interesting tools for your catch-22 box.



I'm changing my vote to this.

Still, Dovahkin is the way to go for fighters who intend to multiattack, especially if they're going to use a light blade/flail.

Too much shouting, though.

Hm.  Doesn't seem all that great.  The AP benefit could be nice on a nova turn, but other than that, the +2 to hit doesn't seem that great, and I wouldn't be using the encounter or daily power since I'm using a spiked chain.



You can reserve maneuver out the encounter power to another Ranger minor action attack. The +2 is awesome because you:
Get +2 to hit. When you average around 30 hp of damage per attack, that's effectively +6 damage per use of Twin Strike.
Mark your quarry, so you don't need to worry about marking while doing Twin Strike.

And the AP option is quite good, too.

Another thing to consider is switching to Cahulaks as they give you reach, double weapon, are throwable, and don't use up your MC slot. There is a -1 to hit, but then you can MC to Avenger for Symbol of Victory +2 and Oath.
Another thing to consider is switching to Cahulaks as they give you reach, double weapon, are throwable, and don't use up your MC slot. There is a -1 to hit, but then you can MC to Avenger for Symbol of Victory +2 and Oath.



If he's MC Spiked chain, he'd be taking the Light Blade feats, because that's easily the best part of MC Spiked Chain. I think it'd be disengenuous to say losing out on Light Blade op is just a -1 to hit. Surprising Charge alone (though as a twin-striker, you really don't want to charge unless you've got the boots that let you use an at-will or encounter on the charge) is phenomenally good, and MBAS versus Reflex is just nuts, not to mention the crazy CA stuff.

Admittedly, I love Cathulaks, and it does let him MC.

Um, what is his hybrid talent? Because most Ranger|Fighters are Tempest Technique, which drastically effects weapon choice....
I hadn't chosen a Hybrid Talent yet, but it's going to stay Spiked Chain.

The build is inspired by Nariko from Heavenly Sword.  Its 3 at-wills are Cleave (w/ Deft Hurler Style), Twin Strike, and Throw and Stab, to provide plenty of choices on who to attack.  I know CO doesn't like house-ruled stuff, but we allow a Spiked Chain to be Farbond Spellblade(d) if it's being used by someone with Spiked Chain Training, so the Spiked Chain can be thrown for the extra range.

If it matters, the stats were also rolled, and it got 2 17's for starting stats (as well as a 7), so it's starting with a 19 Str and 17 Dex.  Again, I know CO doesn't really care for such things, but it's how our group does character creation. 

Here is the current build.  We don't start until Friday, so I've got until then to finalize the build.  We are starting at 5th, but I'm planning the rest of the character out ahead of time.

Build


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Nariko, level 5
Human, Fighter/Ranger
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Human Power Selection Option: Bonus At-Will Power

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 20, CON 14, DEX 18, INT 7, WIS 14, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 17, CON 14, DEX 17, INT 7, WIS 14, CHA 10


AC: 20 Fort: 20 Ref: 19 Will: 16
HP: 47 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Athletics +11, Endurance +8, Perception +9, Stealth +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +0, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +4, Heal +4, History +0, Insight +4, Intimidate +2, Nature +4, Religion +0, Streetwise +2, Thievery +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Ranger Attack 1: Throw and Stab
Fighter Attack 1: Cleave
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Ranger Attack 1: Off-Hand Strike
Ranger Attack 1: Jaws of the Wolf
Fighter Utility 2: Battle Fury Stance
Fighter Attack 3: Rain of Blows
Fighter Attack 5: Bedeviling Assault

FEATS
Level 1: Flail Expertise
Level 1: Spiked Chain Training
Level 2: Deft Hurler Style
Level 4: Two-Weapon Fighting

ITEMS
Farbond Spellblade Spiked chain +2 x1
Bestial Hide Armor +1 x1
Badge of the Berserker +1 x1
Acrobat Boots x1
====== End ======

 
Sig
Yes, I killed your BBEG with his own lair:
Setting: Tomb with a perilous bridge and cliff 100 feet above a lava pit. Mummy pops out of his sarcophagus, initiative: Felix, Half-Elf Artificer: Twin Strike with crossbow. Trump (ala Donald), Eladrin Warlord: Charges mummy with Opening Shove, pushing off the cliff. Mummy fails saving throw, and falls into pit. Sanshiro (ala Japanese "superhero" Segata), Minotaur Barbarian: Strength check to lift sarcophagus and carry to cliff. Free action, drop sarcophagus into square above mummy. Sarcophagus drops on mummy, shoving him further down into lava. Mummy: proceeds to make a series of horrible athletics checks to swim and climb cliff. Dies a horrible death with lava permeating every orifice. Entire Party: Watches on in delight, faces alit with the glow of lava and flaming undead.
Original CharOpper
I soap myself up, and turn up the hot water in the shower, so my sweat mixes with the soap, slickening my skin: +5 to grapple I use my own legs as a shield since only upper-body hits matter: +5 defense I use my teammates bodies to construct a vehicle for myself, and dual-wield their weapons because as long as I win, we all win: +10 attack, +10 defense I completely ignore the enemy, their attacks, the devastating damage they are dealing to me and my team, and strike directly for their base, completely obliterating them, their way of life, and any chance they had at survival as a species: WIN Ender: The Original CharOpper and Power Gamer.
Got anyone playing Kai? Tongue Out
Please don't take the bonus at-will for being human.  Please.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Tempest Hybrid Talent loses some of its appeal for characters that don't use an off hand weapon in the main hand. If the Spiked Chain is set, Prime Shot will be the better choice.


As for the Paragon Path, Shock Trooper's biggest strength is its E11, but a Fighter|Ranger will have enough multi-hitters by himself, so this choice loses some appeal, too (+DEX damage is done only once per round, not per turn, anyway).


Apart from the choices already mentioned, I'd seriously consider Paragon Hybrid. The build has several strong choices for Hybrid Talents (Prime Shot + Marauder for example, or Prime Shot + Tempest) as well as a tremendous amount of extremely good powers to choose from while most Paragon Paths will either have some weak power choices or weak Feats.


And I strongly support taking Heroic Effort over a third at-will. You will only need Twin Strike anyway.     
God no don't paragon hybrid.  Take a PP.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
How is your Int 7?
How is your Int 7?



By reading we find that he says that his stats were rolled.

By not reading we ask questions like "How is your Int 7"... 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
God no don't paragon hybrid.  Take a PP.




The Death of Dogma is the Birth of Reality (I.Kant).


Admitted, Adroit Explorer is better than PH, while others are at par, having either useless feats or several useless powers.

God no don't paragon hybrid.  Take a PP.




The Death of Dogma is the Birth of Reality (I.Kant).


Admitted, Adroit Explorer is better than PH, while others are at par, having either useless feats or several useless powers.




Yeah, but we are playing DnD and it's better to not suck (Me)
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
God no don't paragon hybrid.  Take a PP.




The Death of Dogma is the Birth of Reality (I.Kant).


Admitted, Adroit Explorer is better than PH, while others are at par, having either useless feats or several useless powers.



Explain, please, how PH>Blade Dancer.  Or, for that matter, basically any of the other PPs here.

PH doesn't have an AP feature, only has an F11 in that it gets another HT which isn't all that useful (on a Fighter|Ranger I might well not Hybrid Talent, particularly if the DM allows BCL multiclass), and doesn't have an F16, and some extra class powers (admittedly nice) but you lose a lot by paragon hybridding and gain little.  I fail to see the benefit.

Even with the not-very-useful powers, Kensei, for instance, deals PH a fairly useful deathblow.  +1 to hit all the time, +4 to damage, and a not-awful AP feature, versus +1 to hit with small weapons or +1 to hit if closest, no +damage, no AP feature.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
The build is inspired by Nariko from Heavenly Sword.  Its 3 at-wills are Cleave (w/ Deft Hurler Style), Twin Strike, and Throw and Stab, to provide plenty of choices on who to attack.  I know CO doesn't like house-ruled stuff, but we allow a Spiked Chain to be Farbond Spellblade(d) if it's being used by someone with Spiked Chain Training, so the Spiked Chain can be thrown for the extra range.

They wouldn't be optimal for this build, but do you know about cahulaks? Superior 1d8/+2 double flail with reach and heavy thrown already baked in. You lose some accuracy and light blade support, but you gain your MC and weapon enchant back and you don't have to houserule to make it work. I guess on the flip side she really should be using blades though.
Too bad Dynamic Weapon's power is encounter instead of at-will (and I don't think it does superior weapons).  That's probably the closest to how the Heavenly Sword works without refluffing.

Silly thought if you're trying to do Nariko: ki focus and Battle Harness armor or Quick Draw (or the Executioner's quick-draw-like feature) and just describe using different weapons as switching between heavy/speed/ranged style.

Great, now I want to play around with doing a tempest fighter version of Nariko.
The primary Ranger|Fighter paragon path is Huntmaster.

I agree... 

Though it depends on your purpose... are you doing some defending, or are you just striking and picking up Fighter for extra powers, etc? If you're defending, it is def. the op choice, imho.

One option for damage is to go 20 starting str. dragonborn + flail cheese + draconic arrogance, in which case I would just go Kensai (and take Hybrid Talent (Fighter Armor Prof)... Actually, you could maybe still do somethings similar without being dragonborn, bc the once/turn + STR damage isn't going to be THAT great.

Though, with your current, human build, if you wanted to focus on damage, I would just go adroit explorer and double down on rain of blows for good encounter nova capabilities (plus the extra action point helps keep those Novas going encounter to encounter).

I also vote that you drop the extra at-will and go with heroic effort. 
Blade Dancer would be a prime pick for this build I think.


edit:  oh and for visual appreciation:

"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Wow.  Thanks for all the continued input everybody.

First off, for the 3rd at-will vs heroic effort, it is true that Twin Strike is the option for focus fire damage.  However, Cleave gives her the most damage over all because of getting Str mod on both.  I realize that CO cares more about focus fire DPS.  And Throw and Stab adds some versatility in there by still allowing two attacks and having some built in movement.  It has already come up in our first session.  He was dazed but was still able to move AND make two attacks.  I just think the combination of those 3 at-wills (with DHS) gives the build a lot more flexibility as far as damage.  Also, Twin Strike using 2 ranged shots uses Dex, which is slightly lower than Str in this build.  So, using one of the other two allows her to make two attacks using Str for both and still have one of them be ranged.

It's unfortunate that the hybrid features (Combat Challenge & Hunter's Quarry) don't trigger on basic attacks, but that's the price for hybriding I suppose.

I was still torn on the Hybrid Talent option because of it playing a part in PP choice.  To me, it's not just a question of "What feature do I want?", but also "What feature + PP do I want?" since there are some nice PPs with class feature requirements.  So, once I can decide on a PP, I will know which Hybrid Talent (if any) I want to get.

On that front, a past incarnation of this character was an Adroit Explorer, and the player enjoyed it.  He likes 2x Come and Get It (though at the time he didn't have Ranger powers, as it was straight Fighter...perhaps he will fall in love with a Ranger power.)  

On weapon choice: the previous incarnation used a house-ruled Paired Weapon that the DM allowed to be a 2-handed weapon (Glaive) in it's single weapon form and could split into two 1-handed weapons (Scimitars) in the split form.  It used Polearm Gamble and HBO to get lots of extra attacks in.  Also at the time, we had a misunderstaning apparently in that we thought Come and Get It could trigger Polearm Gamble.  I realized while working on this build that it didn't work because of not being able to make OA on your own turn.

I was unaware of the Cahulaks versatility.  That may be an option we look into down the road if we need to open up MC.  Currently the build isn't utilizing any light blade support, so it wouldn't be losing a whole lot by changing.

Here are the PPs I'm considering:
Blade Dancer
Stormwarden
Dread Reaper
Rakehell Duelist
Pit Fighter
Swordmaster
Adroit Explorer

I'm also considering Avalanche Hurler and Shock Trooper, but I think both of them are too focused on a particular type of weapon for this build, and so they are only a distant consideration.

EDIT: And to the question about why mixing in Fighter: I think it adds in some damage potential by being a Defender.  The chance to attack someone because they go after someone else means the chance for another attack.  The rest of the party composition is currently:

Dwarf Runepriest
Dragonborn Fighter|Warden (this is the one I'm playing)
Gnome Bard
"Human" (Vryloka) Sorcerer

So 2 leaders, a ranged striker, and a Defender/Striker (as my build is focused more on damage than defending).  So having another Defender helps out on the defender aspect.  The situation that typically occured in our encounters last night was that Nariko, the Dwarf, and myself would be up in melee, forming the frontline, the Gnome would be a few squares back, providing leadery support in the form of Staggering Note (Nariko has the best DPS MBA) and other buff/debuffs, and the Sorcerer stood as far back as possible and lobbed attacks at any clumps of enemies.
Sig
Yes, I killed your BBEG with his own lair:
Setting: Tomb with a perilous bridge and cliff 100 feet above a lava pit. Mummy pops out of his sarcophagus, initiative: Felix, Half-Elf Artificer: Twin Strike with crossbow. Trump (ala Donald), Eladrin Warlord: Charges mummy with Opening Shove, pushing off the cliff. Mummy fails saving throw, and falls into pit. Sanshiro (ala Japanese "superhero" Segata), Minotaur Barbarian: Strength check to lift sarcophagus and carry to cliff. Free action, drop sarcophagus into square above mummy. Sarcophagus drops on mummy, shoving him further down into lava. Mummy: proceeds to make a series of horrible athletics checks to swim and climb cliff. Dies a horrible death with lava permeating every orifice. Entire Party: Watches on in delight, faces alit with the glow of lava and flaming undead.
Original CharOpper
I soap myself up, and turn up the hot water in the shower, so my sweat mixes with the soap, slickening my skin: +5 to grapple I use my own legs as a shield since only upper-body hits matter: +5 defense I use my teammates bodies to construct a vehicle for myself, and dual-wield their weapons because as long as I win, we all win: +10 attack, +10 defense I completely ignore the enemy, their attacks, the devastating damage they are dealing to me and my team, and strike directly for their base, completely obliterating them, their way of life, and any chance they had at survival as a species: WIN Ender: The Original CharOpper and Power Gamer.
Cleave does not give more damage overall. You actually made the mistake that the developers did back when they made PH1.

Twinstrike double-dips on every bonus to damage rolls you get. Weapon focus/ elemental damage boost? Doubley effective now. Enhancement bonus? Twice as effective. Item bonus (Iron Arbmands of Power)? Twice as effective. Untyped light-blade bonuses (Deft blade, Light Blade Expertise)? Doubley effective. Whetstones? Double dipped. Cleric or something else give you a buff? Twice as effective. Deft Hurler forces you to pick two targets, and thus is distinctly less viable for bursting than twin-strike, and is at-best as-good as twinstrike.

Twinstrike also has the exact same targeting as cleave (two) even with deft hurler, and you can also focus fire if you need to. If you have Deft Hurler, Throw and Stab is basically redundant and should be dropped, as it doesn't let you mark and will do around the same damage as deft hurler.

Compared to Twin-strike and deft-hurler cleave, Throw and stab is just plan bad. Drop it and take Heroic Effort, because the usefulness of the human racial power cannot be overstated.