What are the minimum mechanics required for a warlord?

So the Hot News on the interwebs today is that at the moment, they're thinking of folding the tactical warlord into the fighter class (and dividing the inspirational warlord between the bard and specialties).

My first reaction was that this wouldn't work. A tactical warlord can just do too many things - heal, grant actions, grant movement, buff allies - to fit into four measly maneuvers.

But then, when you think about it, EVERY martial class has about 4-8 core abilities. Rogues get a scheme, skill mastery, and a few skill tricks; fighters get Parry and maneuvers; monks get a few ki abilities and maneuvers; barbarians get rage and a couple other things. So even if the warlord was its own class, it would probably have to be carved down to a handful of powerful abilities.

So here's the question: what is the minimum number of abilities a warlord needs to sufficiently fill a leader role in 5e?

My list:
1. Grant actions to allies
2. Grant movement to allies
3. Heal allies or mitigate a LOT of damage
4. Lead by example, granting allies bonuses vs your target.

What else do we need?
The Warlord is the only D&D class that has succeeded in fulfilling the vision of an heroic "leader of men," one of the most common and powerful of heroic ideals.  

The exact mechanics are a lot less important than staying true to the vision.

But, mechanics do matter in D&D.  One of the most important mechanics is hit points and taking them away from enemies and restoring them in allies.  The warlord should do both.

Inspiration:
Restoring hit points is absolutely vital to the viability of any party so the more classes that can do it well, the better.  The warlord, in particular, needs to be one of these classes, not just because inspiring those he leads to fight harder and longer is part of the vision of the class, but because it would be a non-magical source of hit point restoration.  Having viable non-magical ways of restoring hit points would allow Next to cover a broader swath of genres and play styles without needing to be massively re-built and re-balanced mechanically. 

Tactics:
The Warlord also needs to be able to contribute in taking away hit points from the bad guys.  There are a lot of options, here.  The Warlord should be a warrior in his own right, so should be able to make a worthwhile contribution on his own.  He should be more effective when combining his efforts with others, though.  Giving allies bonuses to attack and damage is one obvious way, and could be combined with either the warlord attacking, himself, or with using his action to grant allies attacks or other actions.  Other bonuses, like initiative or advantage or positioning could also be brought in, depending on the modules in use.

 
- Warlords! Join the 'Officer Country' Group! Join Grognards for 4e, the D&D that changed D&D.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

After having listened to the podcast again I think - for me - martial healing as the Warlords shtick cannot be stressed enough. In the podcast they were talking about making this into a specialty. I do not think this is enough. The mystical healer specialty allows you to cure minor wounds an light wounds once per day and then later lets you use a raise dead kind of ability.
Also, they talk about "healing" in the podcast to represent the removal of physical injuries.

To me, with the definition of hp as it is (which is good), the Warlord should be able to bring back hp in a much more dramatic way. It should be on the same level as the cleric. I want "healing" to mean "motivation" for more than one person and on the same level as cure serious wounds or mass healing.

Also, there are other things Warlords should be able to do that have not been mentioned:
Warlords should also be able to cancel disadvantage for an ally (I am counting advantage as a bonus like the OP mentions).
They should be able to incur disadvantage for an opponent, both for attacks and saves.
They should be able to grant saving throws without boni.
They should be able to make their allies move opponents.
Warlords themselves should be able to move opponents.
They also should be able to activate already used up class abilities in allies.
They should be able to prevent opponents to use their special abilities.

And I am sure there are subclasses for all those abilities that could be covered in different maneuvers with specific MDD usage. So in general, all these abilities are still too abstract. For example, "grant a move" can mean "without provoking opportunity attacks" or "charge" or just "towards an opponent". "Grant an action" can mean "attack" or "reaction" etc. So you will end up with an entire list of maneuvers for the Warlord. A list too long for the fighter, especially because the Warlord does not have to fight as well as the fighter does. Together with increasing "healing" capabilities as Warlords level up and save DCs that rely on Charisma or Intelligence, this will make a fine stand alone class.
Let them - to use a term often heard in the podcast - "experiment" with a class like that.
After having listened to the podcast again I think - for me - martial healing as the Warlords shtick cannot
Also, there are other things Warlords should be able to do that have not been mentioned:
Warlords should also be able to cancel disadvantage for an ally (I am counting advantage as a bonus like the OP mentions).
They should be able to incur disadvantage for an opponent, both for attacks and saves.
They should be able to grant saving throws without boni.
They should be able to make their allies move opponents.
Warlords themselves should be able to move opponents.
They also should be able to activate already used up class abilities in allies.
They should be able to prevent opponents to use their special abilities.



Well remember a help action can grant an ally advantage ... a Warlord needs to be better at it.

I figure add a hinder action to induce disadvantage in an adversary...

Add opportunities to act for your allies.

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I don't care about martial healing.  For me the warlord at a minimum needs to be represented by a choice of four specialities:

Vanguard: A warlord who grants benefits to allies who attack either a creatue the warlord just hit or a creature of the same stats as the warlord just hit.

Grandmaster: A warlrod who grants allies off-turn movement and other positioning-based benefits

Captain: A warlord who grants off-turn action and bonuses to attacks, saving throws and skill checks.

Hector: A warlord whose successful attacks cause nearby enemies to reposition themselves or to endure fear-based effects
The minimum to me is 5 actions


  1. An attack granting action

  2. A movement granting action

  3. A damage reduction granting action

  4. An advantage granting action

  5. A saving throw reroll granting action


That is the minimum. I can think of 15 more actions to more fully create a warlord type PC.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

The minimum to me is 5 actions


  1. An attack granting action

  2. A movement granting action

  3. A damage reduction granting action

  4. An advantage granting action

  5. A saving throw reroll granting action


That is the minimum. I can think of 15 more actions to more fully create a warlord type PC.




Personally a queen song comes to mind  - "I want it all!"
so what are the 15?

And everyone has an Advantage granting action called "Help" - he needs to be better at it.


  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

@wrecan - I'm not sure I like the breakdown of specialties you list here. It seems to me that a warlord with one method of granting movement and one method of granting actions is more tactically interesting than a "grandmaster" with five different ways of moving allies. But each of the specialties you mention clearly has the seeds for at least a couple "must-have" powers.
The minimum to me is 5 actions


  1. An attack granting action

  2. A movement granting action

  3. A damage reduction granting action

  4. An advantage granting action

  5. A saving throw reroll granting action


That is the minimum. I can think of 15 more actions to more fully create a warlord type PC.




Personally a queen song comes to mind  - "I want it all!"
so what are the 15?

And everyone has an Advantage granting action called "Help" - he needs to be better at it.





Well while staying in the simplicity of the basic style game

  1. A "grant ally an Attack" action

  2. A "grant ally a Hustle" action

  3. A "grant ally a Disengage" action

  4. A "grant ally a Dodge" action

  5. A Better Help action (they get advaantage and add your skill die or something)

  6. A "reroll saving throw" action (or reaction)

  7. A "give an all Damage Reduction" action

  8. A "give an ally advatange on next attack" action

  9. A "give an ally more damage on next attack" action

  10. A "give an ally advatange on an saving throw" action

  11. An "extend an ally's Push" reaction

  12. A "strengthen an ally's Knock Down" reaction

  13. A "You and Me charge" action

  14. A "You and Me retreat" action

  15. A "You and Me shoot" action

  16. A "give my enemy Reckless Strike" action

  17. A "let my ally stand up for free" reaction

  18. A "scare the enemy" action

  19. A "point out weakness" action

  20. Fastball Special (oh the poorly homebrew FS I've seen)


With more rules you can get into formations and other stuff

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

To me, a class calling itself 'warlord' would need the following:

1. the ability to fight, nearly on-par with a fighter if not actually on-par with a fighter
2. the ability to pre-emptively spend an action 'observing the tactical situation' and offering a reactive action that could be any of the following:
  a) Movement to himself or another ('repositioning field resources')
  b) Coordinated attack by modifying initiative ('concentrated field of fire')
  c) Granting a reroll to any singular roll before the consequences of the roll are applied ('last second shout of warning, encouragement, or morale')
 d) In mass combat, the ability to delegate this ability to a certain number of sub-warlords in relation to the number of units

These are what I would consider the minimums, and as far as I can tell they're very edition-neutral.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

I don't care about martial healing.  For me the warlord at a minimum needs to be represented by a choice of four specialities:

Vanguard: A warlord who grants benefits to allies who attack either a creatue the warlord just hit or a creature of the same stats as the warlord just hit.

Grandmaster: A warlrod who grants allies off-turn movement and other positioning-based benefits

Captain: A warlord who grants off-turn action and bonuses to attacks, saving throws and skill checks.

Hector: A warlord whose successful attacks cause nearby enemies to reposition themselves or to endure fear-based effects



This.  I'll also go a step further and point out that a warlord should also be able to do anything a "fighter" can... because "fighter" needs to be broken down into proper classes anyway.
Warlords need to be able to be lazy.

And while they should be able to hit things, they shouldn't hit them any harder then a cleric.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Warlords need to be able to be lazy. And while they should be able to hit things, they shouldn't hit them any harder then a cleric.



If they lack inspirational healing.. ahem perhaps it should be harder than the cleric.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I don't care about martial healing.  For me the warlord at a minimum needs to be represented by a choice of four specialities:

Vanguard: A warlord who grants benefits to allies who attack either a creatue the warlord just hit or a creature of the same stats as the warlord just hit.

Grandmaster: A warlrod who grants allies off-turn movement and other positioning-based benefits

Captain: A warlord who grants off-turn action and bonuses to attacks, saving throws and skill checks.

Hector: A warlord whose successful attacks cause nearby enemies to reposition themselves or to endure fear-based effects



This.  I'll also go a step further and point out that a warlord should also be able to do anything a "fighter" can... because "fighter" needs to be broken down into proper classes anyway.



Or the fighter can be given Favored Enemy and Backing Organization so it can properly swallow Rangers and Paladins  
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

1. Grant actions to allies 2. Grant movement to allies 3. Heal allies or mitigate a LOT of damage 4. Lead by example, granting allies bonuses vs your target. What else do we need?



Inspiration:
Restoring hit points...
 
Tactics:
The Warlord also needs to be able to contribute in taking away hit points from the bad guys.  
 



Warlords should also be able to cancel disadvantage for an ally (I am counting advantage as a bonus like the OP mentions).
They should be able to incur disadvantage for an opponent, both for attacks and saves.
They should be able to grant saving throws without boni.
They should be able to make their allies move opponents.
Warlords themselves should be able to move opponents.
They also should be able to activate already used up class abilities in allies.
They should be able to prevent opponents to use their special abilities.



Vanguard: A warlord who grants benefits to allies who attack either a creatue the warlord just hit or a creature of the same stats as the warlord just hit.

Grandmaster: A warlrod who grants allies off-turn movement and other positioning-based benefits

Captain: A warlord who grants off-turn action and bonuses to attacks, saving throws and skill checks.

Hector: A warlord whose successful attacks cause nearby enemies to reposition themselves or to endure fear-based effects


An attack granting action

  1. A movement granting action

  2. A damage reduction granting action

  3. An advantage granting action

  4. A saving throw reroll granting action




To me, a class calling itself 'warlord' would need the following:

1. the ability to fight, nearly on-par with a fighter if not actually on-par with a fighter
2. the ability to pre-emptively spend an action 'observing the tactical situation' and offering a reactive action that could be any of the following:
  a) Movement to himself or another ('repositioning field resources')
  b) Coordinated attack by modifying initiative ('concentrated field of fire')
  c) Granting a reroll to any singular roll before the consequences of the roll are applied ('last second shout of warning, encouragement, or morale')
 d) In mass combat, the ability to delegate this ability to a certain number of sub-warlords in relation to the number of units

These are what I would consider the minimums, and as far as I can tell they're very edition-neutral.


Warlords need to be able to be lazy. And while they should be able to hit things, they shouldn't hit them any harder then a cleric.


So...out of what we see here, which of these options can already be done by existing classes?
Is there currently a class (with backgrounds, etc.) that can fulfill more than 1 or 2 of these?
"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind." - H.P. Lovecraft
Warlords need to be able to be lazy. And while they should be able to hit things, they shouldn't hit them any harder then a cleric.



Can a new set of Team oriented roguish tricks give substantial amounts of LazyLord feel? 

 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 



So...out of what we see here, which of these options can already be done by existing classes?
Is there currently a class (with backgrounds, etc.) that can fulfill more than 1 or 2 of these?




No, of course not.  There's no D&D Next material addressing any sort of Warlord stuff at all.  There is no way of making a Warlord with the existing packet.

Same goes for bard, paladin, ranger, sorceror, etc.  Your call if you want to get angry about those things in advance!
I don't care about martial healing.  For me the warlord at a minimum needs to be represented by a choice of four specialities:

Vanguard: A warlord who grants benefits to allies who attack either a creatue the warlord just hit or a creature of the same stats as the warlord just hit.

Grandmaster: A warlrod who grants allies off-turn movement and other positioning-based benefits

Captain: A warlord who grants off-turn action and bonuses to attacks, saving throws and skill checks.

Hector: A warlord whose successful attacks cause nearby enemies to reposition themselves or to endure fear-based effects



This.  I'll also go a step further and point out that a warlord should also be able to do anything a "fighter" can... because "fighter" needs to be broken down into proper classes anyway.



Or the fighter can be given Favored Enemy and Backing Organization so it can properly swallow Rangers and Paladins  



Sure, and then those archetypes can be flavorless and unsatisfying in Next, just like the only assassin we've seen thus far. Great.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
1. Grant actions to allies 2. Grant movement to allies 3. Heal allies or mitigate a LOT of damage 4. Lead by example, granting allies bonuses vs your target. What else do we need?



Inspiration:
Restoring hit points...
 
Tactics:
The Warlord also needs to be able to contribute in taking away hit points from the bad guys.  
 



Warlords should also be able to cancel disadvantage for an ally (I am counting advantage as a bonus like the OP mentions).
They should be able to incur disadvantage for an opponent, both for attacks and saves.
They should be able to grant saving throws without boni.
They should be able to make their allies move opponents.
Warlords themselves should be able to move opponents.
They also should be able to activate already used up class abilities in allies.
They should be able to prevent opponents to use their special abilities.



Vanguard: A warlord who grants benefits to allies who attack either a creatue the warlord just hit or a creature of the same stats as the warlord just hit.

Grandmaster: A warlrod who grants allies off-turn movement and other positioning-based benefits

Captain: A warlord who grants off-turn action and bonuses to attacks, saving throws and skill checks.

Hector: A warlord whose successful attacks cause nearby enemies to reposition themselves or to endure fear-based effects


An attack granting action

  1. A movement granting action

  2. A damage reduction granting action

  3. An advantage granting action

  4. A saving throw reroll granting action




To me, a class calling itself 'warlord' would need the following:

1. the ability to fight, nearly on-par with a fighter if not actually on-par with a fighter
2. the ability to pre-emptively spend an action 'observing the tactical situation' and offering a reactive action that could be any of the following:
  a) Movement to himself or another ('repositioning field resources')
  b) Coordinated attack by modifying initiative ('concentrated field of fire')
  c) Granting a reroll to any singular roll before the consequences of the roll are applied ('last second shout of warning, encouragement, or morale')
 d) In mass combat, the ability to delegate this ability to a certain number of sub-warlords in relation to the number of units

These are what I would consider the minimums, and as far as I can tell they're very edition-neutral.


Warlords need to be able to be lazy. And while they should be able to hit things, they shouldn't hit them any harder then a cleric.


So...out of what we see here, which of these options can already be done by existing classes?
Is there currently a class (with backgrounds, etc.) that can fulfill more than 1 or 2 of these?


If we perform this exercise, then it must be done for the paladin, ranger, bard, and other subclasses as well. So for any class represented in any edition, how can a background/trait with 4 feats (specialty) represent a class, versus making a class. Unless feats become very powerful, it will be difficult.
Why do you need an ability to grant an action and am ability to grant a move? Sounds like that's just one ability that grants the target to do anything.
I list realized that if you have martial healing there is no point in magical healing'
Apart from the mechanics that should be part of the warlords class features the other big but yet ignored question is: what game mechanics or modules should be present in the game for the warlord to work? Do the current basic rules have enough basis for the warlord's class-features to work or is the addition of modules (tactical movement in combat, grids etc.) or choices (which system for natural healing for instance) necessary?

I think this last question is part of the reason they want to fold the warlord into the fighter for now. With the current base rules the warlord can only be a shade of what it was in 4E, I would guess to a pioint were it might well not even exist.  That is, however, because it's class-features in 4E were closely entwined with those rule-elements that were particulary prominent in 4E. You would need to add rules-modules (like tactical combat movement) to create a rules enviroment wherein the warlord can function as a proper class. Other classes that might be modules on their own don't have this problem, whether or not a sorcerer or warlock is available as playeable class in a campaign does not change anythinbg on how a wizard or rogue plays in the game, adding the option to play warlord as a class does because your rogue character will have to deal with the tactical combat module.
Usually the warlord is doing something to grant an action to another class, and most the time they sacrifice their own actions, or use a specific tactic to open up an opportunity for another. They also bolster the combat effectiveness by using combat formations, tactical retreats, initiative modifiers, etc. Warlords should also be very resourcful and use evey tool that is available on the battle field, so part of their experience or study is knowing the combat effectiveness of each class or resource. Therefore, a warlord is not a captain of the guard, or sergeant. The warlord is the exceptional individual the goes beyond the simple aspects of melee combat or a fighter. A good example is Sun Tzu or any character that wants to dedicate themselves the study of combat to eventually become a general, or gain new insights into combat like Miyamoto Musashi. I can only imagine how the book of five rings would change if magic was considered and breaking down how each aspect of a class in reference to combat can be used.

And similar to bards being jacks of all trades and having access to magic and broad skills, the warlord focuses on combat recovery for classes with magic or without. So they have a rudimentary understanding of barbarian rage, monk ki, fighter parry, cleric healing, etc. and combines what is efficient and useful from all that knowledge.

If the warlord does not fit you tastes for melee combat, then play a fighter, ranger, rogue, barbarian, or monk.
Why do you need an ability to grant an action and am ability to grant a move? Sounds like that's just one ability that grants the target to do anything.


Because you can do more with an action, which is tactically important. Granting a move with his action (like an order or a command) is something different than granting an ally an attack after a successful Warlord attack.
It also is a matter of scaling. Why should - and I am just taking this as an example - the Warlord be able to grant a reaction at first level? Or should he be able to do this? Isn't it better if abilities scale with level (or with the use of MDD or some other resource)? I think these are important design decisions to be made for a class. 

In the end, there are so many things that a Warlord should be able to do that you will have a full maneuver list at least as big as the monk or the fighter. If you add in martial healing and a different attack progression than the fighter (because IMO a Warlord does not fight as well as a fighter and does not have to), you have a full fledged and very interesting class. But this is not to be, which I find a shame.
I list realized that if you have martial healing there is no point in magical healing'


Yes, that is the point. And this is a good thing for the stories people who want martial healing want to be able to play in 2013.
I list realized that if you have martial healing there is no point in magical healing'


Yes, that is the point. And this is a good thing for the stories people who want martial healing want to be able to play in 2013.



Because magical healing is a pretty low available element in most fantasy... not an obligatory party member.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Why do you need an ability to grant an action and am ability to grant a move? Sounds like that's just one ability that grants the target to do anything.

There can be some consolidation.  Since we don't need "grant a hussle" and "grant an attack" and "grant a disingage".  But there's still multiple things to do.

This is what i feel the minimum needed would be.

1) Use your action to grant an action to a single ally (as their reaction).
2) Use your action to grant advantage to the party.  (1 enemy, 1 attack or 1 defense).
3) Use your action to grant movement to the party.  (all allies move 5', does not provoke).
4) Use your reaction to grant advantage to a single ally. (1 attack  or 1 defense).
5) Use your reaction to grant movement to a single target.  (they move a bit further).
6) Hit something, and grant advantage to a single ally. (1 enemy, 1 attack or 1 defense).
7) Passive party wide buff to inititive.
8) Temporaraly Heal  (let people fight longer without actually giving them hit point).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I list realized that if you have martial healing there is no point in magical healing'

That's like saying if you have magical damage, there's no need for martial damage.  One does not preclude the other.


Though, IMO, there shouldn't be need for healing at all.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I list realized that if you have martial healing there is no point in magical healing'

Actually, the obvious way to handle martial healing in Next is to let the healer trigger the use of HD in combat.  HD are already representing the personal reserves of stamina that martial healing taps into, and provide a built in limit.  That makes magical healing very much more valuable, because it has no limit (other than the healer's spell slots).  Not that I like HD, but it does solve that particular problem.
Minimum?  Like, bear minimum, rules-lite system, Warlord?



  • A way to grant a bonus to allies (that is better than any 'default action' bonus to allies that any character can grant).



For D&D?



  • Ability to grant bonuses to allies


    •     Directed bonuses for single characters, with larger effects

    •     Directed bonuses against single enemies, with moderate effects

    •     Some General bonuses for the entire party, with smaller effects


  • "Bonuses" which include: +attack, attacks, +damage, +move, moving, +defense, and more interesting options.

  • Ability to supplant the typical D&D "cleric" in a party

Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
*The ability to make a montage.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Why do you need an ability to grant an action and am ability to grant a move? Sounds like that's just one ability that grants the target to do anything.

There can be some consolidation.  Since we don't need "grant a hussle" and "grant an attack" and "grant a disingage".  But there's still multiple things to do.

This is what i feel the minimum needed would be.

1) Use your action to grant an action to a single ally (as their reaction).
2) Use your action to grant advantage to the party.  (1 enemy, 1 attack or 1 defense).
3) Use your action to grant movement to the party.  (all allies move 5', does not provoke).
4) Use your reaction to grant advantage to a single ally. (1 attack  or 1 defense).
5) Use your reaction to grant movement to a single target.  (they move a bit further).
6) Hit something, and grant advantage to a single ally. (1 enemy, 1 attack or 1 defense).
7) Passive party wide buff to inititive.
8) Temporaraly Heal  (let people fight longer without actually giving them hit point).




All of that is clearly in the realm of a specific playstyle, one in which the narrative occurs after the mechanics.        I think my group would always want to understand how or know exactly what the warlord is doing to make some of those things happen.   And then at what point do common narratives become reptative and just ignored?   How does one grant more movement if they've already used all their movement?  Is it magic? etc...

Anyway, I can see how these kinds of powers are problem within the current core of D&D Next.      In fact, every single power like that will be criticized just like the Rogue's Taunt ability was.   



Aadrenine boost, doe
sn't Ned to be magical.
1. Buff allies
2. Grant movement and attack
3. Heal well enough to replace the cleric
...whatever
The Warlord is a curious case. As a 4e creation, our only direct material for it is from 4th edition -- and in 4th edition, class design revolved around combat benefits, and class features were loaded in at the very first level. D&D Next is reverting back to the old D&D standard of acquiring new features as you level (as well as gaining more of old stuff). Even if the designers were completely cavalier about designing a warlord and gave us a packet with the class included, it wouldn't share much of anything in common with the 4e one -- not nearly the same extent that the core four share with prior permutations of their classes.

'Cause Mearls is kinda right when he says the class was a result of the system. I don't think the archetype is, but the class' iconic shape comes from the tactical grid nature of the game. If they do design a Warlord, they should look as much to the Marshal (as I am also one of the ten people that bought that book) as additional source material to derive mechanics from.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
If they do design a Warlord, they should look as much to the Marshal (as I am also one of the ten people that bought that book) as additional source material to derive mechanics from.


While they should absolutely look to the Marshal for ideas (and I'd say to hit up "teamwork benefits" too, and some skill tricks, and a lot of the stuff from Heroes of Battle), I think it would be a huge mistake to move too far in the "Marshal" direction.

Yes, it was in a not-very-good book, and wasn't very common, but even when we had it available it still wasn't very popular, and part of that was due to the Marshal's mechanics.

When I have to compare the two, I tend to think of it as: The Warlord is Active, while the Marshal is - for the most part - Passive.  Having played a Marshal, it really did feel like I was playing a Fighter-with-party-buffs, because everything was so passive.  It also did really feel like it overlapped with the Bard.  My (limited) experience playing a Warlord, though, never felt that way, because I was always making active choices to use my features.

If I had to sum it up, I might go with: Participation.  The Marshal felt like I was "participating" as a Fighter, whereas the Warlord felt like I was "participating" as a leader.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Can't the Cleric do all this and more? Clerics can heal and grant bonuses to allies, even Spiritual Hammer could be issuing commands to allies. Just describe what he is doing as yelling commands rather than sparkles flowing from his holy symbol, say it isn't magical and you have what you want.

Make a Leadership feat that allows you to direct allies actions if it will make or break the game for you. Play-test it and let us know if it works.

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of any failed saving throw, including but not limited to petrification, poison, death magic, dragon breath, spells, or vorpal sword-related decapitations.

Can't the Cleric do all this and more? Clerics can heal and grant bonuses to allies, even Spiritual Hammer could be issuing commands to allies. Just describe what he is doing as yelling commands rather than sparkles flowing from his holy symbol, say it isn't magical and you have what you want.

Make a Leadership feat that allows you to direct allies actions if it will make or break the game for you. Play-test it and let us know if it works.


Only spellcasters get nice things? That needs to go die in a fire.
...whatever
Can't the Cleric do all this and more? Clerics can heal and grant bonuses to allies, even Spiritual Hammer could be issuing commands to allies. Just describe what he is doing as yelling commands rather than sparkles flowing from his holy symbol, say it isn't magical and you have what you want.

Make a Leadership feat that allows you to direct allies actions if it will make or break the game for you. Play-test it and let us know if it works.


Only spellcasters get nice things? That needs to go die in a fire.

don't call it spellcasting. it is simply reflavoring the fluff. I don't see the issue, why is that so bad?

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of any failed saving throw, including but not limited to petrification, poison, death magic, dragon breath, spells, or vorpal sword-related decapitations.

I dislike any talk of "minimums".  I would rather talk about what would make the Warden a fun, interesting and dynamic class.  This talk of conceptual minimums is really a problem in DDN.  What really makes a _____ seems to be the design directive, and it results in boring classes.  The fun parts of a class usually come after you cover the base assumptions.  
Barbarian = light armor, melee proficiencies, rage.
Fighter = heavy armor/lots of weapon proficiencies
rogue = trapfinding/lockpicking, stealth, light armor.
wizard = arcane spells
cleric = armor + divine spells

if you just create classes using the bare minimum required to represent the concept, you are doing a really bad job of making good classes.  Its like reading the cliffnotes instead of the book.  Sure you get the gist of it, but you miss out on the depth entirely.
So when you turn the discussion to variants, you get to a really bad place.  The fighter is not a hugely broad class capable of looking really different from one build to the next.  He can't absorb the drawbacks needed to create a true variant.  Reducing the impact of options while simultaneously streamlining classes only creates a more static game.  A fighter does X.  Not my fighter does Y.  The approach should start with the generic and then branch outward. Perhaps the central class-concept for a fighter is the medieval knight in heavy armor, but the class needs to branch out to mechanically reflect a musketeer, a spartan spearman, a myrmidon, a pirate etc. etc.  We can always just toss back the "imagination" answer, but doing so at this stage (the development stage) is a cop-out.  There are ways you can jam those aforementioned square pegs into the round fighter hole, but it doesn't come easy, and leaves quite a lot to be desired.  You end up forcing a player to make poor mechanical choices just to fit his character concept rather than rewarding him with an equal trade when he decides that his character wouldn't be wearing heavy armor.
Can't the Cleric do all this and more? Clerics can heal and grant bonuses to allies, even Spiritual Hammer could be issuing commands to allies. Just describe what he is doing as yelling commands rather than sparkles flowing from his holy symbol, say it isn't magical and you have what you want.

Make a Leadership feat that allows you to direct allies actions if it will make or break the game for you. Play-test it and let us know if it works.

Kinda.  But your missing the bonus to initive, any movement boost, and actual action granting.  Plus, you can't "reflavor" it being a daily power.


A cunning bard would be a better analog.  Reflavor songs as training, and spells as inpseration.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.