Uncharted Realms, redux

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Unless anyone objects, this thread will be dedicated to keeping up with and discussing the recurring Uncharted Realms articles.
The previous thread was getting a little bit bloated.

This week, The Burying, Part 2.

We finally get to see how Domri ascended.
Hate it. Oh the R/G walker happens to ascend and gets sent to NAYA of all places? OH WHODA THUNK IT!

Also, **** him as a character. Stupid marketting ploy for angsty kids. 

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome

I have, from the dawn of Domri's first revelation, declared him to be an irrascible little ****. I would like nothing more than for ANY walker to encounter him so that he can be throttled, burnt, rotted, or fittingly mind raped into oblivion, thereby putting the horrible little bastard out of our misery.
This is not a punny title.

Shame. 
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
Wow, that might seem just a little bit harsh. Yes, he's arrogant, moody, cocksure, and full of himself. But he's a teenager. Who wasn't like that to at least some degree when they were that age?

As for him 'walking to Naya, that makes sense. His thoughts before ascending turned to the Old Gods and, by extension, the world they represented. He basically walked to a Gruul's paradise. If that might seem contrived, Ajani's rage brought him to Jund according to Sarkhan, so there is presidence for this kind of thing.
Also I didn't notice until I just looked it up that the smoke from the volcano makes the planeswalker symbol in Flight of the White Cat Part 3, last panel. 

As for the story itself, I liked it. I didn't really mind the wait and it's a nice little ascension story. I'd like him to meet Gideon so that Gideon can kick some sense into him (seeing a little bit of himself in the kid), but I doubt that will happen.
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As for the story itself, I liked it. I didn't really mind the wait and it's a nice little ascension story. I'd like him to meet Gideon so that Gideon can kick some sense into him (seeing a little bit of himself in the kid), but I doubt that will happen.



I'd rather Garruk teach him a little humility because it would be infinitely more humiliating that he wasn't even worth Garruk's time to finish off.
(What with Garruk being everything Domri has aspired to be amongst the Gruul)
Barinellos, can you cite the specific instances with Domri that annoyed you? I saw him acting like any teen who's chomping at the bit to prove themselves to a superior. If I had my druthers, Domri would've planeswalked to Jund and met some titans truly worth worshipping. Finally, I really liked the Skarrrg Guildmage.
I think it was okay, at least Domri's nasty teen nature is  greatly downplayed. I would just have loved to see more of him as an outcast before having him basically say "BAWWWWWWWW".
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Good lord, guys.
He's not that bad.
I agree with Thoctar. I didn't find him annoying at all. At least not more so than every other teenager. Because, that's how he acts, like a teenager. 

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I agree with Thoctar. I didn't find him annoying at all. At least not more so than every other teenager. Because, that's how he acts, like a teenager. 



He acts like a teenager, NOT like a mtg character. That's my big problem with him. He reminds me too much of the 13 year old entitled whiny audience that he is intended to represent. I absolutely ****ing despise marketing based characters, and that is what I believe he is.

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome

I'm really not seeing him as being this godawful teens are monsters sort of person you're all seeing.
Yeah he got issues, but that comes with the territory of being 1) a teenager, 2) a Gruul.

The teenager part of his character; I don't mind. It's distinctive. There's a lot of ways they can take that.
It's the 'green char hates civilization' thing that has me rolling my eyes so hard I think they might fall out.

We've seen it in LITERALLY every other green-based walker.
Garruk; hates civilization.
Nissa; hates civilization.
Sarkhan; hates civilization.

FIND ANOTHER HAT, PLEASE.

Again, I agree with Thoctar (god, I'm boring).


He acts like a teenager, NOT like a mtg character. That's my big problem with him. He reminds me too much of the 13 year old entitled whiny audience that he is intended to represent. I absolutely ****ing despise marketing based characters, and that is what I believe he is.


You dislike a teenager acting like a teenager? 


Also, having a younger character was bound to happen someday. I'm not sure how much marketing had to do with Domri. I'm also unsure if teenagers look to teenagers in the fiction they consume. When I look back to what characters I liked when I was younger, it were mostly cool and capable adults, or teens that didn't really acted like teenagers.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.


Again, I agree with Thoctar (god, I'm boring).


He acts like a teenager, NOT like a mtg character. That's my big problem with him. He reminds me too much of the 13 year old entitled whiny audience that he is intended to represent. I absolutely ****ing despise marketing based characters, and that is what I believe he is.


You dislike a teenager acting like a teenager? 


Also, having a younger character was bound to happen someday. I'm not sure how much marketing had to do with Domri. I'm also unsure if teenagers look to teenagers in the fiction they consume. When I look back to what characters I liked when I was younger, it were mostly cool and capable adults, or teens that didn't really acted like teenagers.



Teenagers hate teenagery-ness just as much as anyone else, thus the common obsession with trying to grow up as fast as possible. Especially early teens, my Dad used to call my Middle School the "Prison on the Hill", and I'm fairly sure the purpose of Middle Schools is simply to keep Middle Schooler's away from the rest of society.
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
What age is Middle School?

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

What age is Middle School?


Thirteen to fifteenish?
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
Does Sarkhan really hate civilization? I figured he was more just a dragon fanboy, and ambivalent to the whole the society thing.
...having some age diversity, particularly when we're worried about the Planeswalkers not being immortal anymore, is a good thing. Complaining that a teenager acting like a teenager makes him not a MTG Character... you'll need to make more of an arguement. If your point is that a fantasy teenager should be different than our current preconceptions of a teenager, then your standards might be a bit too high. Particularly on the most cosmopolitain plane in the MtG setting.


As for Domri himself... I like him. He fits the current block, there's a lot of room to develope him for use in future blocks, and honestly just expand his character in general. Yes, he hates certain definition of civilization but he's been raised Gruul. As he sees planes other than Ravnica, there is room for his world view to shift and change. Some of those shifting world views might come with him getting his face planted in the ground, but I'll be cheering for him to get back up again rather than jeering for it to happen in the first place.


As for green characters hating civilization too much... just a bit, but honestly Domri might just be our second. Just because you're tribal in origin doesn't mean you hate civilization.

From what little I've read about Nissa she's pro-elf and has only tried to settle down long term in her native land of Zendrick, which has no major civilizations to speak. If she ever found herself a bustling civilzation of elves I'm sure she'd revaluate any stances she had on the subject, is there are any.

Sarkhan I don't believe is green at his core, as his most stable color is red. Which makes a lot of sence since being pro-dragon is his theme. Yes, green his part of his personality, but most people have a portion of all the colors somewhere in their personality.

As for Garruk... yes he is our first and truest hater of civilization, but there's a difference between him and Domri. Garruk rejects society because his life lessons have taught him that people can not be trust like animals. Domri rejects cities as a defilement of nature, all stemming from his extreme views as a Gruul on Ravnica. Both will always love nature... at a slow and trudging rate as they share the spotlight with all the other planeswalkers.
I might have overreacted a bit on the anti-civilization thing.

Nissa hates civilization because she reveres nature, and tries to find ways to adapt to nature.
Sarkhan hates civilization because he believes that it teaches people to curb their instincts and he strives to live instinctually. Or he did before he sold out.
Garruk hates civilization because he hates people.
Domri hates civilization because he has been raised to believe that the city has routinely and systematically raped and pillaged all of the rights of his people.

@Famoth
Nissa did infact visit Ravnica after he ascension and hated it so much she vowed never to visit it again if she could help it. It made her feel claustrophobic and gave her the feeling that someone had a knife to her back. Hated hated hated it.
Why is it that people have such a hard time understanding that I hate teenagers? I despise every teenager with the attitude that Domri has, and since he's supposed to be the average teen, the logical extension should be clear.

Teenagers can't even stand teenagers, as was pointed out earlier.
Why is it that people have such a hard time understanding that I hate teenagers? I despise every teenager with the attitude that Domri has, and since he's supposed to be the average teen, the logical extension should be clear.

Teenagers can't even stand teenagers, as was pointed out earlier.

Yup. Teenagers are terrible. Agreed.

But that's not really a critique. That's like going into a Western and then raving about how much you hated the main character being a cowboy. I feel like this is a situation analogous to hate for certain cards: if you don't like it, maybe it wasn't meant for you.
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Yup. Teenagers are terrible. Agreed.

But that's not really a critique. That's like going into a Western and then raving about how much you hated the main character being a cowboy. I feel like this is a situation analogous to hate for certain cards: if you don't like it, maybe it wasn't meant for you.


For the record, not big on Westerns.
There are a few I kinda like, but....

Aside from that, I feel like your analogy breaks down. You choose to go to a western. We've had Domri dropped into our laps.
I think there's something to be said for not like a character as a person, but liking them as a character.

The two are very far removed.

You're free to not like Domri as a person because you think he's a pile of ratsnot, but like him as a character because he has potential to do interesting things.
I think there's something to be said for not like a character as a person, but liking them as a character.

The two are very far removed.

You're free to not like Domri as a person because you think he's a pile of ratsnot, but like him as a character because he has potential to do interesting things.



Just like with Tezzeret, who I'd never want to meet in real life, but I do like reading about him.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

You're free to not like Domri as a person because you think he's a pile of ratsnot, but like him as a character because he has potential to do interesting things.



The problem here is I don't see any potential past him getting his face stomped in.
I don't like Tezzeret as a person, but I see his potential to interact interestingly with other characters.
I don't see that in Domri.

And besides, I'm not trying to convince anyone else to dislike Domri. I'm just getting really tired of people finding flaw with the fact I don't like him.
I thought the story was ok. Only part I really didn't at the end where he starts to get all defensive about what happened to him. I don't know why but I really don't like him when he gets that way.
Considering the number of characters and stories we get, acting like Domri has been foisted upon us and is unavoidable is a little silly.

Especially when Jace and Bolas and Gerrard are things. 
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Considering the number of characters and stories we get, acting like Domri has been foisted upon us and is unavoidable is a little silly.

Especially when Jace and Bolas and Gerrard are things. 

What was wrong with Gerrard?

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Considering the number of characters and stories we get, acting like Domri has been foisted upon us and is unavoidable is a little silly.

Especially when Jace and Bolas and Gerrard are things. 

What was wrong with Gerrard?




In my 15+ years of magic I have never once heard anyone complain about Gerrard.

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome

In my 15+ years of magic I have never once heard anyone complain about Gerrard.



From what I understand, he'd earned a lot of ire because of how he dominated the story for years.
I find that a bit silly when Urza was so much more prevalent during that time.

In my 15+ years of magic I have never once heard anyone complain about Gerrard.

From what I understand, he'd earned a lot of ire because of how he dominated the story for years.
I find that a bit silly when Urza was so much more prevalent during that time.

Well, he was the Jace of our day....you know, except he was likable in just about every way.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

In my 15+ years of magic I have never once heard anyone complain about Gerrard.



From what I understand, he'd earned a lot of ire because of how he dominated the story for years.
I find that a bit silly when Urza was so much more prevalent during that time.



And Jace is doing that now. So yea, that argument holds absolutely no water.

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome


And Jace is doing that now. So yea, that argument holds absolutely no water.



Except he's really not.
RTR is the second time he's been a major character in the block story since Planeswalkers were introduced almost six years ago.

And Jace is doing that now. So yea, that argument holds absolutely no water.



Except he's really not.
RTR is the second time he's been a major character in the block story since Planeswalkers were introduced almost six years ago.



He makes up for not showing up in the story by being Mickey Mouse. He is definitely more forced in our faces than Gerrard ever was.

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome

He makes up for not showing up in the story by being Mickey Mouse. He is definitely more forced in our faces than Gerrard ever was.



This is... true.
I'd blame marketting for this.
I mean I thought that was the point of the entire Lorwyn 5, not just Jace.  
He makes up for not showing up in the story by being Mickey Mouse. He is definitely more forced in our faces than Gerrard ever was.



This is... true.
I'd blame marketting for this.
I mean I thought that was the point of the entire Lorwyn 5, not just Jace.  



Oh of course it's due to marketting. And people are already starting to bitch about Jace. It's almost like people are getting sick of him like they said people did about Gerrard....funny how that works.

Jace works better than the other 4 because he is the most masturbatory to the average mtg player. It only makes sense he'd be the frontman. He IS your target audience. 

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome

Gerrard was on a disproportionate number of cards in either art or flavor text. People got bored of it. The saturation is far more than with Jace if we're talking about the flavor side of things.

Also, don't discount the effect having an overpowered-to-the-point-of-banning card has upon people's perception of the character.

And the point is still the same: the Western analogy is totally valid, because Domri isn't some inescapable storyline force, especially when you compare him to other far more dominant characters.
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And the point is still the same: the Western analogy is totally valid, because Domri isn't some inescapable storyline force, especially when you compare him to other far more dominant characters.



Eh, it's still a situation where they used up a lot of potential making the character that could have been used in some other fashion. I mean, really, a lot of the walkers we dreamed up during the child/teen contest would have been preferable.

Another strike here is that they've just done such a bad job at answering things about him. If we'd known everything up front, there wouldn't have been so much attention directed his way for so long, but they drug it out and because we never got that closure about who he was, it meant so much more energy was spent on him.

... I'd still not like him, but I genuinely feel like if we knew who he was from the start, I wouldn't be so vocal about it.

It does raise an interesthing thing to consider (from my end at least), in the fact that certain characters have had a lot more exposure than others. It begs the question of if they have any intention of letting certain characters just... fade away.
The biggest thing that bothers me about domri, is that he is so obviously a marketing campane. He has zero part in the story line. Also, did they not adress the angsty teen with tibalt? They could have as easily brought back another walker. This flow of new, irrelivant, walkers is taking away the special qualities of a walker card.
Like how doomsday devices only work if you tell someone about it, a marketing device only works if it's actually being used for marketing.

Domri isn't really, not significantly. So I'm not sure complaining about him existing for marketing really makes sense given the evidence.
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The biggest thing that bothers me about Domri, is that he is so obviously a marketing campaign. He has zero part in the story line. Also, did they not address the angsty teen with Tibalt? They could have as easily brought back another walker. This flow of new, irrelevant, walkers is taking away the special qualities of a walker card.



You mean like Tamiyo, Tibalt or Vraska? When Tezzeret was first introduced, he also had no role in the story line and come to think of it, neither did the Lorwyn five. 


And Tibalt is most definitely not an angsty teen (and if it was a reference to "cutting yourself", you've really missed the point, I think). And Domri also isn't angsty. 


And like Keeper, I have trouble seeing Domri as a marketing effort. First of all, it took ages before we even knew something about him. He isn't all that prominent in the imagery of the set. If they were pushing him towards a specific audience, they're not really doing a good job. 


I'm starting to think this hatred for Domri is either a case of tangible details or, like Barinellos, a generalized hatred for teenagers.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

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