Simple Clarification on Thundertusk Boar Strike

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Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee or Ranged weapon

Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon.


Targets: One or two creatures


Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; main weapon and off-hand weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged), two attacks


Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage (melee) or 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage (ranged) per attack. With each hit, you push the target 1 square. If both attacks hit the same target, you push the target a number of squares equal to 1 + your Wisdom modifier.




Assume my Wisdom modifier is 5.

Does that mean the total number of squares a target will be pushed is 8 (1+1+<1+5>) for a total of 3 pushes, or is it 6 (1+5) for a single large push?  

58286228 wrote:
As a DM, I find it easier to just punish the players no matter what they pick, as I assume they will pick stuff that is broken. I mean, fight after fight they kill all the monsters without getting killed themselves! What sort of a game is this, anyway?

 

An insightful observation about the nature of 4e, and why it hasn't succeeded as well as other editions. (from the DDN General Discussions, 2014-05-07)

Rundell wrote:

   

Emerikol wrote:

       

Foxface wrote:

        4e was the "modern" D&D, right?  The one that had design notes that drew from more modern games, and generally appealed to those who preferred the design priorities of modern games.  I'm only speculating, but I'd hazard a guess that those same 4e players are the ones running the wide gamut of other games at Origins.

       
        D&D 4e players are pretty much by definition the players who didn't mind, and often embraced, D&D being "different".  That willingness to embrace the different might also mean they are less attached to 4e itself, and are willing to go elsewhere.

    This is a brilliant insight.  I was thinking along those lines myself.  

 

    There are so many tiny indie games that if you added them all together they would definitely rival Pathfinder.   If there were a dominant game for those people it would do better but there is no dominant game.  Until 4e, the indie people were ignored by the makers of D&D.

 

Yep. 4E was embraced by the 'system matters' crowd who love analyzing and innovating systems. That crowd had turned its back on D&D as a clunky anachronism. But with 4E, their design values were embraced and validated. 4E was D&D for system-wonks. And with support for 4E pulled, the system-wonks have moved on to other systems. The tropes and traditions of D&D never had much appeal for them anyway. Now there are other systems to learn and study. It's like boardgamegeeks - always a new system on the horizon. Why play an ancient games that's seven years old?

 

Of course, not all people who play and enjoy 4E fit that mould. I'm running a 4E campaign right now, and my long-time D&D players are enjoying it fine. But with the system-wonks decamping, the 4E players-base lost the wind in its sails.

the total number of squares a target will be pushed is 8 (1+1+<1+5>) for a total of 3 pushes

Since RAW the third sentence is not a replacement to the second, you'd push a total of 8 squares in 3 instances. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

I've always taken it and things like it to mean the latter, but it might be worth seeing what your DM says, since it is somewhat ambiguous.
I am the DM. That's the issue, because I read it one way, and I was sure that it was going to cause contention. I wanted to check with the experts first.

The previous times he used it, it was the second way (8 total squares), but I've recently taken to actually READING powers instead of just accepting players' words. They were a bit tired of me asking (again!!) what their power does.

So yea... Needed some help with my homework. 

58286228 wrote:
As a DM, I find it easier to just punish the players no matter what they pick, as I assume they will pick stuff that is broken. I mean, fight after fight they kill all the monsters without getting killed themselves! What sort of a game is this, anyway?

 

An insightful observation about the nature of 4e, and why it hasn't succeeded as well as other editions. (from the DDN General Discussions, 2014-05-07)

Rundell wrote:

   

Emerikol wrote:

       

Foxface wrote:

        4e was the "modern" D&D, right?  The one that had design notes that drew from more modern games, and generally appealed to those who preferred the design priorities of modern games.  I'm only speculating, but I'd hazard a guess that those same 4e players are the ones running the wide gamut of other games at Origins.

       
        D&D 4e players are pretty much by definition the players who didn't mind, and often embraced, D&D being "different".  That willingness to embrace the different might also mean they are less attached to 4e itself, and are willing to go elsewhere.

    This is a brilliant insight.  I was thinking along those lines myself.  

 

    There are so many tiny indie games that if you added them all together they would definitely rival Pathfinder.   If there were a dominant game for those people it would do better but there is no dominant game.  Until 4e, the indie people were ignored by the makers of D&D.

 

Yep. 4E was embraced by the 'system matters' crowd who love analyzing and innovating systems. That crowd had turned its back on D&D as a clunky anachronism. But with 4E, their design values were embraced and validated. 4E was D&D for system-wonks. And with support for 4E pulled, the system-wonks have moved on to other systems. The tropes and traditions of D&D never had much appeal for them anyway. Now there are other systems to learn and study. It's like boardgamegeeks - always a new system on the horizon. Why play an ancient games that's seven years old?

 

Of course, not all people who play and enjoy 4E fit that mould. I'm running a 4E campaign right now, and my long-time D&D players are enjoying it fine. But with the system-wonks decamping, the 4E players-base lost the wind in its sails.

I am the DM. That's the issue, because I read it one way, and I was sure that it was going to cause contention. I wanted to check with the experts first.

The previous times he used it, it was the second way (8 total squares), but I've recently taken to actually READING powers instead of just accepting players' words. They were a bit tired of me asking (again!!) what their power does.

So yea... Needed some help with my homework. 



RAW, and not terribly broken:  Push 1 per hit, then push 5 more when both hit.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
As a note that player may want to look into Draconic Arrogance.  I have no idea if they are high enough level, dragonborn, or have MC into Fighter but if they are thats 3x str mod to that attack. Which isn't too shabby.

Remember that the player can always choose to push less if they want.  So they could push the target anywhere from 1 to 8 squares. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Also, because it's three separate pushes, if they have the target directly next to hindering terrain (lava, a cliff, etc), they could force the target to make 3 separate saving throws to avoid being pushed into that terrain.

 The only weird part about the power is that it doesn't state you follow after each push, so either you have to choose not to push no the first hit, or you need something else to allow you to follow after the first hit (like a free action interrupt or reaction power), or you have to rule it that you resolve both attacks first and then deal with all the pushes.
The only weird part about the power is that it doesn't state you follow after each push,


That wouldn't make any sense, though, given that it can be used as a ranged attack instead of a melee attack.
It makes sense: the editor who wrote it was stupid and didn't realize that using it as a melee attack meant if you used the first push, you'd boned yourself. Or he did and ignored it, because it was also a Ranged attack and worked fine in that context.
If you want it to "make more sense" you could change my statement to "can follow", so its optional.  Either way, as written, your first attack would push the target out of reach, so you could only hit it twice by using a reach weapon and starting adjacent or having some other way to move along with it.
If you want it to "make more sense" you could change my statement to "can follow", so its optional.  Either way, as written, your first attack would push the target out of reach, so you could only hit it twice by using a reach weapon and starting adjacent or having some other way to move along with it.

Or use it as a ranged attack.
If you want it to "make more sense" you could change my statement to "can follow", so its optional.  Either way, as written, your first attack would push the target out of reach, so you could only hit it twice by using a reach weapon and starting adjacent or having some other way to move along with it.

Or use it as a ranged attack.



Or have Reach 5.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
If you want it to "make more sense" you could change my statement to "can follow", so its optional.  Either way, as written, your first attack would push the target out of reach, so you could only hit it twice by using a reach weapon and starting adjacent or having some other way to move along with it.



Or choose not to push it on the first hit, then push it 1 on the second hit and take your bonus push for two hits.  net result:  One shorter push.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.