[Suggestion] Phantom Constructed

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I haven't found anything with the serach function on this topic, so i just open this thread.

I realize that there a lot of more important matters to settle right now, but i think this would be awesome and maybe the new clients developments allowes to still implement the intefaces necessary to do this for real a later point in without to much unecessary coding.

so yeah the title pretty much explains it.
It would be awesome to have Phantom construced available on modo.
I imagne this like the Phantom Limited Events, only that here you sign up with a decklist and get to play with the cards without having them on your account.

Of course this would undermine the system of mtgo so here are a few ideas to address this:
The main use i see for this is to let players play in formats that are not popular enough to make them do the effort of getting cards to play.
There are a lot of old awesome standard formats, that people have great memories of or that they never got to play beccause the only started to play after that time.
There are a lot of competetive fun formats (like make your own standard and so on) that would be fun to play but not if you have to pay way to much money for cards that are played in other formats.

I see this as an alternativ for the times when other formats grow stale, like for the timespan between the RL realease and the online release of a new expansion. It would be the construced equivalent to cube draft weeks if you will. I imagene a good number of people would play in phantom construced ques if the have a reasonable price structure (e.g not the cube prize support).
Phantom Constructed is something that has a really dangerous potential to destroy or steal interest from the core product formats that WotC is trying to sell.  Therefore if it ever happens it's going to be like Cube Drafting.  It will be extremely limited.  

I like your idea of allowing it for casual formats, but I don't think WotC has much interest in supporting casual formats, it would much rather condense interest into a few core formats.


Even allowing phantom casual tournaments would allow players to playtest decks without buying the cards for a deck, which is something I'm guessing WotC would want to avoid.


Therefore I think the main option for Phantom constructed would be for it to be available a week or two before a new set becomes available.  Playtesting right before a new set comes out is worthless, interest in a lame deck format is usually a low point, so I don't think many people or WotC would complain if a few players try and get their feet wet in a lame duck constructed format for a limited time.      
I suggested a subscription model that allowed this but it received only a few comments. I think that if wizards was to allow playing with any card (beyond the beta testers program) it would be through an optional subscription model and that would solve any economic issues. One more thing, these phantom events would not have prizes or cost to entry, they would just be practice games, otherwise it would definitely eat up the bottom line.
For a great source of information on the Pauper format check out Pauper's Cage!
I suppose it could be implemented if the EV were sufficiently negative.  Pretty similar concept to cube drafting -- you don't have to own any cards to play, but the price you pay is that the EV is very negative.
Phantom constructed? What are you trying to do, kill the prices of any and all cards drafters get? This would 100% ruin the MTGO economy, card prices are low enough already, throw in the idea of people never actually needing to buy any of these already low priced cards because, hey, they can play constructed for free, and BAM MTGO dies. No one will want prizes packs to draft with from phantom constructed events because the cards will be worthless. Drafters will dissapear, constructed players will all be doing phantom, REAL constructed would barely even exist. It SHOULD cost money to play magic. It SHOULD cost money to draft. It SHOULD cost money to play constructed. There SHOULD be factors in the game that cause a balance between limited and constructed since they are linked together. The idea of phantom constructed burns the bridge between the constructed and limited formats. It is understandable that some formats have high barrier entry than others, costing an upward of 500-700$ for decks, but the same applys for IRL magic, and people don't suggest "there should be some way we shouldn't have to pay for the cards..". This is the game, and this is how it works. Cards cost money, and cards make decks. Therefore, to make a deck, you'll need cards, which in turn means you need money. Phantom constructed completly dismisses this and ruins the process each and every person must go through to build a deck.
This is the game, and this is how it works. Cards cost money, and cards make decks. Therefore, to make a deck, you'll need cards, which in turn means you need money.



I agree with most of your post. But weren't there some sanctioned paper tournaments where players could use proxies? And proxies are used all the time in testing for a tournament. I thought OP was looking for an online equivalent to that part of the paper experience. He did say no entry fees, no rewards.

Go draft, young man, go draft!

This is the game, and this is how it works. Cards cost money, and cards make decks. Therefore, to make a deck, you'll need cards, which in turn means you need money.

I agree with most of your post. But weren't there some sanctioned paper tournaments where players could use proxies?

No.
There are many Vintage tournaments (especially in the US) that use proxies.  But use of proxies mean they are unsanctioned.  In the early 2000s I believe Star City Games held large proxy Vintage tournaments with good prizes, but again, proxies = unsanctioned.
There are many Vintage tournaments (especially in the US) that use proxies.  But use of proxies mean they are unsanctioned.  In the early 2000s I believe Star City Games held large proxy Vintage tournaments with good prizes, but again, proxies = unsanctioned.



The official Magic Tournament Rules say that proxies can only be used in limited events to replace cards which are damaged or marked (e.g. misprints in the sealed product.)   Proxies cannot be used in any constructed format, period.   Any games involving proxies are unsanctioned / kitchen table Magic.

SCG used to run 10 proxie Vintage events, with the winners getting acutal power cards.  SCG stoppped that, because the winners were just selling the power back to the dealers.  Proxie tournaments actually hurt the sales of power cards.  Now, even SCG runs sanctioned Legacy tournaments with zero proxies.  The only proxie tournaments I know of are some small stores in small markets that cannot get 8 players for a Vintage tournament otherwise. 

As for the subscription model, or other methods of seriously changing the way Magic is marketed:  Magic is the most profitable game out there.  It is still going strong.  Literally hundreds of games have tried alternative price structures.  The vast majority of them have failed.  MTGO is ten years old.  What other MUD, MMO, MMORPG or other online games (aside from Poker and WoW) are still going strong a decade later?  The list is short.  The list of failed games is much, much larger. 

I'm just saying that Wizards may know what it is doing. 

PRJ

I write State of the Program, appearing every Friday on PureMTGO.com.

Proxies are used in a VERY limited amount of unsanctioned vintage tounraments annually. These proxies are also almost always used to represent the "power 9". There is a difference between wanting to proxie a 20$ snapcaster mage/huntmaster of fells and a difference between wanting to proxie a mox sapphire/ancestral recall. I understand players would love to have a "mode" in the game where all cards can be used to make w/e deck they want to play your friends with, no prizes or entry fee associated. Problem is, again, people would dismiss the idea of actually going through the process of actually getting the cards and just freeroll the "all cards are free" mode. Look at Workstation and Cockatrice (which was recently shut down). All programs that offer magic with access to any amount of cards to build and play decks for free. The traffic is enough on those programs that I'm sure it would suggest a portion of players would stop playing "actual" MTGO and just play with their friends when they have time instead. Why pay 14$ for this draft when I can build what ever deck I want and play it non stop for free? Why would I want to spend 20+ tics on sphinx revelations when I can go into "free mode" and test my deck all I want anyway? Bottom line, while it may please the playerbase, I think this would be terrible for wizards themselves.
 
to quote my own post:

......
Of course this would undermine the system of mtgo so here are a few ideas to address this:
The main use i see for this is to let players play in formats that are not popular enough to make them do the effort of getting cards to play.
There are a lot of old awesome standard formats, that people have great memories of or that they never got to play beccause the only started to play after that time.
.....



Its kind of obvious that Phantom Standard, Modern, Legacy and so on are out of question ....

I see this as an opportunity to play awesome formats.
Like Ravnica Standard
Would you put a deck together for that format? (duals, and a lot of cards that are played in other formats ...)
Now with a Phatnom Cue on the other hand, would you play it if there is nothing else to play?
I know i would.
Even obvioulsy broken stuff like Clamp Standard could be fun if only for a week ...
just wanted to up this for potential awareness.
In a month or so from now, when the momentum M14 brings to the Constructed Formats dies down, there would be a great time for phantom Constructed ques in weird/old formats.

bump for awareness

 

currently we are at a timeframe again where Standard is dead and new Standard isn't born yet.

This would be perfect for reurns of older formats in the way i suggested here

It's funny. at first one would think "this is obvious financial suicide" and that it obviously undercuts MTGO's premise of being a replica of the paper product. On the other hand there is Phantom Limited. The "phantom" gig was Wotc's idea to begin with! Didn't phantom limited come with repercussions?


Thing is, phantom constructed would defeat the point of owning cards.

 

Though Ithere could be a way around this, come to think of it. Like phantom limited, phantom constructed would only occassionally occur. And the events would cost tix to enter so Wotc is making money anyway. Lastly, players would still need to attain the cards in order to playtest.

 

p.s. Obsolete formats (like old standards) is a great application of this idea. Good thinking!

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