Extort UI

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Hi.

Can I please call for some sanity regarding the UI and the Extort mechanic?

It always used to annoy me when an opponent played Mana Leak or something like that, and the program made me press Cancel even when I have no available sources of mana.

Now, when I cast a spell with one or multiple Extort triggers on the board, it still makes me press Cancel for every single one of these, even in cases in which I have no available sources of mana.

How is this not, excuse the term, idiotic? The client knows whether I have mana sources available, why make me drag the mouse around the board multiple times for every single card I play when the answer is no?

Can't you at lease re-phrase it as a Yes or No question, so I can use a key shortcut instead of resorting to the mouse?

Isn't it silly, having to drag and press the mouse multiple times for every single spell played when there is no meaning in the interaction, if I have zero mana sources available? 

Has this post gotten redundant and annoying? That's what it feels like to play a braindead UI.
I agree with you Zachawry, it does waste time clicking Cancel all the time.

However, would it take more time to code the client so that it is able to identify all the cards (through MTG's history) which potentially generate white or black mana? (not simply basics and dual lands).  For example, think of all the cards like birds of paradise, Noble Hierarch, cards which convert  mana from one colour to another, cards of opponents which can put mana into an opponent's pool like Spectral Searchlight etc?  I don't know what the answer is to this question - is a coder able to comment on how labour intensive this coding would be?
It's hard to imagine that the client has no easy way of determining whether or not there is mana available. 

Even if for some reason they decide it's not worth it, it would be nice if they at least made it a Yes/No operation so that keystrokes could be used.

 
Dear Wizards,

May we ask if you are intending to arrange this coding (automatically detecting white or black mana), or do you consider it too labour intensive? 
Please also fix :

please choose the order this one card goes into your graveyard.

Please also fix :

please choose the order this one card goes into your graveyard.



Heck if you are going to pick on THAT might as well fix the "There are no defenders possible but I am going to ask if you want to block anyway despite having received your yield for this turn, this game, this decade etc." UI gaff that has bothered me since I can remember.

Winter.Wolf

Telir, I totally agree with you.


My previous feedback included a recommendation to have a Shortcut key which states "Pass the Turn" (including no blocks or no attacks).  I think this would be a very valuable feature.  This would be in addition to F6, which pauses at the Declare Attacks/Declare Blockers.
Please also fix :

please choose the order this one card goes into your graveyard.


I think there is a setting where mtgo wil automatically order your graveyard, so there's no prompt.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
Please also fix :

please choose the order this one card goes into your graveyard.



Heck if you are going to pick on THAT might as well fix the "There are no defenders possible but I am going to ask if you want to block anyway despite having received your yield for this turn, this game, this decade etc." UI gaff that has bothered me since I can remember.

That one should be left.  It's a matter of pacing.  You can ponentially argue for skipping it during f6, though.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
Please also fix :

please choose the order this one card goes into your graveyard.



Heck if you are going to pick on THAT might as well fix the "There are no defenders possible but I am going to ask if you want to block anyway despite having received your yield for this turn, this game, this decade etc." UI gaff that has bothered me since I can remember.

That one should be left.  It's a matter of pacing.  You can ponentially argue for skipping it during f6, though.


My argument for keeping that in is that if it's taken out, the game could unintentionally give a hint about there being a legal block that the defending player didn't realize he had. For example, in GTC limited let's say that you're being attacked by a Deathcult Rogue and you have an untapped Syndicate Enforcer. It's quite possible that a player might not realize that his Enforcer can block the Deathcult Rogue. If we remove the "declare blocks" option if you have no legal blocks, then when the game asks you to block in a situation like this where you don't think you have any legal blocks, you've just been tipped off that you do have a legal block.
TL;DR: Removing the "declare blockers" prompt when you have no legal blocks may streamline the step but it can give players information about the gamestate that they didn't know.

As for removing the declare attackers/blockers prompts under F6, I'd be ok with that being added as another function key so long as I can retain the current F6 functionality.
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/50738226/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
I like to minimize my use of the mouse. Is there a keyboard shortcut for "Cancel"? I supposed I should start it up and see if F2 works for this...
Try the shortcut for "No". The live client and the beta have ALT+N by default.
What if I have Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand and want to pay? If it's in my deck and not in my hand my opponent would know that if it just skipped the prompt right? Lots of Magic cards have been made over the years...
What if I have Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand and want to pay? If it's in my deck and not in my hand my opponent would know that if it just skipped the prompt right? Lots of Magic cards have been made over the years...



Yes, Worth, let's slow down 1000 games for the 2 where this matters.

Theory is all fine, but don't stop there. Think beyond that response.

I suggest you stop by MaRo's desk, borrow his copy of "A Whack on the Side of Your Head" and start thinking outside the box already.
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
What if I have Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand and want to pay? If it's in my deck and not in my hand my opponent would know that if it just skipped the prompt right? Lots of Magic cards have been made over the years...



No need to think outside the box.  Thinking inside the box is fine - just ask yourself this question:  How does Elvish Sprit Guide help to pay Extort exactly?  What use is 1 GREEN mana for extort?

My main grivance however is this -can it not simply be a Yes/No.  Why this weird "Cancel" prompt.  I hope this feedback is helpful. 
What if I have Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand and want to pay? If it's in my deck and not in my hand my opponent would know that if it just skipped the prompt right? Lots of Magic cards have been made over the years...



No need to think outside the box.  Thinking inside the box is fine - just ask yourself this question:  How does Elvish Sprit Guide help to pay Extort exactly?  What use is 1 GREEN mana for extort? 


And you want every possible corner case explored when coding a mechanic? That is how things break.

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What if I have Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand and want to pay? If it's in my deck and not in my hand my opponent would know that if it just skipped the prompt right? Lots of Magic cards have been made over the years...



No need to think outside the box.  Thinking inside the box is fine - just ask yourself this question:  How does Elvish Sprit Guide help to pay Extort exactly?  What use is 1 GREEN mana for extort? 


And you want every possible corner case explored when coding a mechanic? That is how things break.

Hi Bubba,

Sure, but do you at least agree that it should be a simple "Yes/No" question (none of this Cancel language), in which case we can simply press N in wide Beta?
Sure, but do you at least agree that it should be a simple "Yes/No" question (none of this Cancel language), in which case we can simply press N in wide Beta?


No, because that is not the standard behavior for triggered abilities. However, the hotkey for "No" should also work for cancel.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


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If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
I have another beef.

The cancel button is the exact same spot as the OK button in V3.
First strike step!
When Doomed Traveler dies put a 1/1 spirit creature token into play.
Ok.
Whenever a creature dies, target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
Ok.
Whenever a creature dies, target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
Ok.
Whenever Whoever is put into a graveyard from play, if it din't have a blah counter on it return Whoever from the graveyard to play with a blah counter counter on it under it's owners control.
Ok...!
Blah.
Ok!
Blah blah.
Ok.
Blahblahblah.
Ok.
Blahblah.
Ok.
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH!
OK OK OK OK!
Chachachachachacha!!!!!!!!
OK! OK! OK! OK!
ClickTheSpellToCastTheCopy!
Cancel!!!!

AAAAARGH!
The box has literally zero to do with it. This isn't Duels of the Planeswalkers. We dont shortcut things on the UI (like tapping mana for you) to make it easier, if it could affect gameplay.

And if I have an untapped Prophetic Prism, my Elvish Spirit Guide is very relevant, right?

What if I have Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand and want to pay? If it's in my deck and not in my hand my opponent would know that if it just skipped the prompt right? Lots of Magic cards have been made over the years...



Yes, Worth, let's slow down 1000 games for the 2 where this matters.

Theory is all fine, but don't stop there. Think beyond that response.

I suggest you stop by MaRo's desk, borrow his copy of "A Whack on the Side of Your Head" and start thinking outside the box already.



The box has literally zero to do with it. This isn't Duels of the Planeswalkers. We dont shortcut things on the UI (like tapping mana for you) to make it easier, if it could affect gameplay.

And if I have an untapped Prophetic Prism, my Elvish Spirit Guide is very relevant, right?

What if I have Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand and want to pay? If it's in my deck and not in my hand my opponent would know that if it just skipped the prompt right? Lots of Magic cards have been made over the years...



Yes, Worth, let's slow down 1000 games for the 2 where this matters.

Theory is all fine, but don't stop there. Think beyond that response.

I suggest you stop by MaRo's desk, borrow his copy of "A Whack on the Side of Your Head" and start thinking outside the box already.






For what it's Worth (pun intended) I agree 100% with your point. I think the problem is that we aren't asking that corners be cut. We just want a way to obviate the excruciating extra little prompts that pesk us in the client. If there was a keyboard short cut to deal with this then that would be fine.

Winter.Wolf

The box has literally zero to do with it. This isn't Duels of the Planeswalkers. We dont shortcut things on the UI (like tapping mana for you) to make it easier, if it could affect gameplay.



You're missing the point by quite a margin, but read on.

I'll give you an example of the sort of inside the box thinking I'm accusing you guys of.

So. In MTGO we don't want anyone to miss a chance to respond to anything right? Spell gets cast, ability gets activated, anything happens, both players get priority since that's what the rules say. So, in MTGO, whatever happens, you HAVE to click ok and explicitly pass priority.

You will agree with me that this is a very straightforward translation of the rules. The program pauses whenever you get priority. Simple, correct, inside the box. Elegant? Not so much. Convenient? Hardly.

I don't think it's disputable that players are hindered by this approach, as evidenced by many requests for speed improvements. I'm not even talking about extremes like the loop macro that pops up every now and then. Thanks to ppl like mr feuell, we got stuff like F6, for instance. Ppl can press F6 to willingly pass priority until the turn ends. Similarly, you can "autoyield" abilities.

But the fact remains that, in principle, every action requires an OK in MTGO. And as long as you hold onto that, you will have no chance to crack this nut. There will always be a situation you can come up with that needs to be handle-able, which the shortcuts will make impossible (the ones I mentioned have such drawbacks).

So let me offer a thought outside the box. How about we let go of that idea that you always HAVE to click ok? What would it be like if the game ALWAYS passed priority UNLESS I happen to be holding ctrl+shift? Or differently put: Whenever I press and hold ctrl+shift (or whatever key is useful), the game stops passing at the very next opportunity, otherwise, it just passes, and passes, and passes. Maybe we can even make it so it pauses for a fraction of a second before it passes, so you can still follow everything that happens.

There are some obvious advantages to this approach: I can pretty much finetune when the game stops and when it doesn't, as long as I'm prepared to fully focus on the game. It feels a lot like what happens in paper, where you go "whoa waitaminit" whenever you want to respond.

And sure there are drawbacks too, problems to fix. So think of it as a stepping stone to a REALLY good idea.

Try something radical for a change and surprise yourself.

Outside the box.
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That's such a terrible idea that it physically hurts.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
@nushea Weren't you the one that gave advice to people to stop suggesting stupid ideas? Maybe it's time you listen to your own advice. I agree with MTGKaioshin - your suggestion is just terrible.
Nushae,

Usually your posts are excellent.  You are usually full of great ideas!

However on this occasion you have gone too far. Surprised  You have crossed the boundary on what is reasonable, in my honest & humble opinion.
The box is there to protect you.  Stay inside the box.
The box is there to protect you.  Stay inside the box.



That is, for example, the worst advice you can give to a working scientist. Stay inside the box = stay mediocre.

I would like to see an explanation why what Nushae proposed is a bad idea. Because it can be badly implemented? That's not the idea's fault. I would like to see something like that implemented - as a toggle in options, of course. 

Go draft, young man, go draft!

Of course the kids come out of the woodwork now to throw potshots. Sure, it's a terrible idea, because... GO.

I guarantee you that if you start producing said reasons you will reveal that you didn't understand half the idea.
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
Of course the kids come out of the woodwork now to throw potshots. Sure, it's a terrible idea, because... GO.

I guarantee you that if you start producing said reasons you will reveal that you didn't understand half the idea.

If you want a reason, I don't want to be forced to hold ctrl+shift (or whatever) every time I'm anticipating making a play at some point later in the turn.  And I don't want to have to walk on eggshells maintaining intense and uninterrupted focus in case I accidentally miss it.

As a most extreme example, have you ever played against an opponent in a tournament who is clearly in 2 games at once and takes 30 seconds to pass priority each time?  In your system, I couldn't even get up and make a coffee, go to the bathroom, let someone in the front door etc without losing the match due to unwanted priority passes.
Isn't nushae just brainstorming? What's wrong with that? He didn't say that it was a really good idea.

I've thought of the reverse, where as long as I hold down some key I am passing priority.

Related to making play more efficient, how about when the current game has lots of routine triggered events that I've auto-yielded (with Yes/No responses where appropriate). I'd like to temporarily cancel all my auto-yields and then later easily turn them all on at once instead of individually.

Things are getting off topic a bit, however for my 2 cents, I have never understood why there is no option to yield until end step. Any deck that holds up mana and uses instants (draw/go for instance) wants to do nothing except a) respond to spells/abilities and b) play instants during opponents end step. F4 and F6 don't achieve this. The closest option is to fine-tune the stops and use f2 judiciously so as not to miss the end step.

I think there may actually be the basis of a good idea in nushae's idea. There are all sorts of things I never want to respond to.

What if as well as the current list of phase stops there where also "spell" and "ability" stops. So I could set it so that it never asks me to respond to creatures or artifacts being played. But if an instant or sorcery targets me or my permanents it lets me respond.
Obviously you'd be able to set it up to let you respond to everything (including your own spells without having to holding crtrl), just like you can currently make it stop at every phase.
You would have different sub categories. Yield to: vanilla creatures, french vanilla creatures, creatures without comes into play abilities etc.

But this is all probably at least 2 versions and a change of management away.

I've bought the cards and made a deck Now how do I win at this?

You can already do this for the most part.  Just take out all your breaks and hold down f6.  Games should go really fast for you and you won't be asked any weird questions.  Well, other than that annoying "you must discard a card" at the end of your turn.  Though you can probably get around that by just mulling down to 0 and so you would have many turns to not worry about that.


Are people really that annoyed with the clicking of a confirmation message?  The only time I could see it being that annoying is with some storm combo going off.  Though you are playing storm so you should have your fingers fall off from clicking anyway.  :D

These ideas are bad because you are then making it harder for yourself to respond to something.  You will miss a lot of chances to play correctly.  Also you will then tip off the other person when you do have something you can do because all of a sudden you go from no time for responses to waiting a second or two to respond.  The current way helps to not tip off the opponent what you may or may not be able to do.  It also does not give extra information to yourself if you are un-aware of something you can do.

The reason why in real life you back up is because you were never given proper priority.  If your opponent in real life gives you priority like "entering declare attackers, is this OK?" then you can't back up if they assign attackers.  You have to deal with it.  In environments where there is some kind of trick, or on board tapper, I will often say this so that I am not giving away how I will attack or if I will attack at all.

In fact, this same kind of passing priority signaling worked just last week where an opponent double blood rushed a creature and I had damage base removal.  I 3 for 1-ed them due to this tactic of actually playing the game formally and saying "ok, that resolves" to the first blood rush.

Not sure if you have played Duels of the Planeswalker, but they have a similar system.  Its a real pain, especially in 4 player when you have an instant or some kind of response.  There were times where I wanted to respond and it would swing the game for me, but the time limit on the response was so fast I didn't have time to make a full evaluation and then respond.


If anything I would agree with moving the OK/Yes to always be on the far left, and then the Cancel/No to always be on the far right.  At least then there is less chance of miss-clicking depending on if say you have a message that is only "ok" followed by some yes/no response where the OK and the NO/Cancel were in the same spot.
The box is there to protect you.  Stay inside the box.



That is, for example, the worst advice you can give to a working scientist. Stay inside the box = stay mediocre.


As a working scientist, I can say there is a lot of unexplored space inside the box.


Paradigm-shifting discoveries are rare. It is mostly just pushing against the sides of the box.

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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
I like the idea in its roughest form because I think it can be refined as was hinted above.


1) Have the default be as it is now. If you have a stop on a phase/step, it stops for everything it should.
2) Have the option to not stop for a) instants, b) sorceries c) abilities [1) triggered, 2)activated] d) creatures e) artifacts f) enchantments g) planeswalkers. (as per Timotheos's refinement.)
3)If you have any of the options mentioned in 2 checked to skip, Control-F3 unskips it for the next instance. Why Control-F3? Because F3 clears all yeilds. Shift Control F3 would clear all the checks. (Obviously these could be changed too via the keybindings options in settings as per the beta.)
4)Have the ability to toggle each skip/not skip option via keybindings.

Winter.Wolf

Isn't nushae just brainstorming? What's wrong with that? He didn't say that it was a really good idea.

I've thought of the reverse, where as long as I hold down some key I am passing priority.


I think this idea is far more palatable than Nush's idea. If you hold down F2, does it already do this? Seems like an easy modification if not.

The game is about doing things. You don't want the user to have to do something special just to do things.

Related to making play more efficient, how about when the current game has lots of routine triggered events that I've auto-yielded (with Yes/No responses where appropriate). I'd like to temporarily cancel all my auto-yields and then later easily turn them all on at once instead of individually.


I would love this functionality.

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If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

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Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
As a most extreme example, have you ever played against an opponent in a tournament who is clearly in 2 games at once and takes 30 seconds to pass priority each time?  In your system, I couldn't even get up and make a coffee, go to the bathroom, let someone in the front door etc without losing the match due to unwanted priority passes.



Try actually PLAYING two games at once 'under my system'... your problem does not exist because two-timing is just not doable. You may see that as a worse drawback...

But anyway. We can turn stops on and off on the fly, I see no reason why you couldn't switch between pass/go behaviors on the fly either...

But as others have pointed out, you're going at it wrong. The point is not the merit of the idea itself, but opening your mind to radically different ones like it. The secret to a good brainstorm is to delay, for long enough, the moment where you start criticizing the ideas being produced. If you do that too soon, you will end up discarding ideas that are bad themselves but lead to good ones.

That's what I mean when I say you will find you didn't understand half the idea: if you are willing to let go of the preconception that the game must always pause when you get prio (which is all the idea really is), and then look for ideas, you will surprise yourself.
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
The box is there to protect you.  Stay inside the box.



That is, for example, the worst advice you can give to a working scientist. Stay inside the box = stay mediocre.


As a working scientist, I can say there is a lot of unexplored space inside the box.
Paradigm-shifting discoveries are rare. It is mostly just pushing against the sides of the box.



A lot of space for run-of-the-mill science. Nothing wrong with that, it's needed, but it never brings great discoveries. Which really are rare. (Perhaps I should mention that my field was theoretical, high-energy physics.)

A good brainstrom needs two things: a new idea, and constructive criticism - meaning arguments, not just instictive reactions. I believe Nushae mostly reacted to Worth's statement that unless you always receive priority, UI is making decisions (preventing mistakes) for you. And the logical other mode is, of course, to never receive priority. So, as a thought:

Let's say we introduce a new game mode, what Nushae proposed, and call it goldfish mode. And we rig it this way:


  • pressing a key, say F13 (i.e. something that is never used) puts you into goldfish mode. You never receive priority, UI makes all your decisions for you. You receive a very visible visual prompt (like a fishbowl on your avatar) to remind you that you're a goldfish ATM.

  • pressing any key/mouse button exits goldfish mode, and play resumes with the settings (stops, F6 status etc) that were in effect before you jumped into the bowl.


This is, of course, a nice way to lose the game. Also, it can be a nice way to save some clicks. Depends solely on you. And it can reveal info, i.e., you can bluff using it. It adds options, so it can never hurt a player who is not using it. You could even use it in casual instead of conceding, to allow the other guy to actually execute the combo even though you know you will lose. Looks like all positive to me.


It also requires coding time that is probably better spent elsewhere.

Go draft, young man, go draft!


As a working scientist, I can say there is a lot of unexplored space inside the box.



As a working scientist, I can say that most of the times you *think* you're working outside the box you're just rediscovering something already published in the 50s

A lot of space for run-of-the-mill science. Nothing wrong with that, it's needed, but it never brings great discoveries. Which really are rare. (Perhaps I should mention that my field was theoretical, high-energy physics.)

A good brainstrom needs two things: a new idea, and constructive criticism - meaning arguments, not just instictive reactions. I believe Nushae mostly reacted to Worth's statement that unless you always receive priority, UI is making decisions (preventing mistakes) for you. And the logical other mode is, of course, to never receive priority. So, as a thought:

Let's say we introduce a new game mode, what Nushae proposed, and call it goldfish mode. And we rig it this way:


  • pressing a key, say F13 (i.e. something that is never used) puts you into goldfish mode. You never receive priority, UI makes all your decisions for you. You receive a very visible visual prompt (like a fishbowl on your avatar) to remind you that you're a goldfish ATM.

  • pressing any key/mouse button exits goldfish mode, and play resumes with the settings (stops, F6 status etc) that were in effect before you jumped into the bowl.


This is, of course, a nice way to lose the game. Also, it can be a nice way to save some clicks. Depends solely on you. And it can reveal info, i.e., you can bluff using it. It adds options, so it can never hurt a player who is not using it. You could even use it in casual instead of conceding, to allow the other guy to actually execute the combo even though you know you will lose. Looks like all positive to me.


It also requires coding time that is probably better spent elsewhere.





Isn't that f6?  I've done that plenty of times where someone is combo-ing off, or about to attack for lethal, or whatever.  I hate it when someone just gives up when I am about to win, so I give my opponents the chance to just win.  Sometimes I even tap out ahead of time to show that there is nothing I can do.

As far as new discoveries or new ideas, a lot of it is just building off of other people's ideas and making incremental changes, or just purely an accident.
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Let's say we introduce a new game mode, what Nushae proposed, and call it goldfish mode. And we rig it this way:


  • pressing a key, say F13 (i.e. something that is never used) puts you into goldfish mode. You never receive priority, UI makes all your decisions for you. You receive a very visible visual prompt (like a fishbowl on your avatar) to remind you that you're a goldfish ATM.

  • pressing any key/mouse button exits goldfish mode, and play resumes with the settings (stops, F6 status etc) that were in effect before you jumped into the bowl.


This is, of course, a nice way to lose the game. Also, it can be a nice way to save some clicks. Depends solely on you. And it can reveal info, i.e., you can bluff using it. It adds options, so it can never hurt a player who is not using it. You could even use it in casual instead of conceding, to allow the other guy to actually execute the combo even though you know you will lose. Looks like all positive to me.


It also requires coding time that is probably better spent elsewhere.





Isn't that f6?  I've done that plenty of times where someone is combo-ing off, or about to attack for lethal, or whatever.  I hate it when someone just gives up when I am about to win, so I give my opponents the chance to just win.  Sometimes I even tap out ahead of time to show that there is nothing I can do.




F6 stops for some things, like declaring blockers, sacrificing creatures to Cruel Edict even when you control but one creature, discarding to Mind Rot even if you have only two cards in hand, and so on. Goldfish would stop for nothing, making all the choices for you. As I said, to be used at own risk.

Go draft, young man, go draft!