About: Moderation.

46 posts / 0 new
Last post
I think it might be useful if users had a forum, subforum, or even thread in which they could, assuming they did so without rancor, discuss moderation -- not necessarily specific incidents, but the way that moderation is carried out and how the mods do business.  I feel that the community could be enriched by having a public forum to provide feedback regarding standards and practices of the forum as a whole and have a reasonable expectation that, even if their suggestions are not acted on, they were in fact read by someone who could have seen fit to take action.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

I think it might be useful if users had a forum, subforum, or even thread in which they could, assuming they did so without rancor, discuss moderation -- not necessarily specific incidents, but the way that moderation is carried out and how the mods do business.  I feel that the community could be enriched by having a public forum to provide feedback regarding standards and practices of the forum as a whole and have a reasonable expectation that, even if their suggestions are not acted on, they were in fact read by someone who could have seen fit to take action.


Let me repeat what I posted a couple weeks ago in reply to someone else asking something similar:

If you want to have a discussion about VCL moderation policy, which I am generally happy to do, a new thread in this forum is appropriate. Discussion of specific incidents is usually okay here, though it will almost always be redirected back to a conversation on moderation philosophy.

If you believe a VCL is abusing his power or otherwise doing a poor job, you should contact customer service.

If you want to discuss ORC moderation policy, that is a much touchier subject. You can make a thread in this forum, which can sometimes be beneficial, but is completely non-binding on customer service (and they rarely partcipate, though I can point out the thread to them to look consider). Such threads also usually have a pretty quick lock trigger if they get unruly. Discussion of specific events here is strictly forbidden.

If you want to complain about the specific moderation of an ORC, again contacting customer service is the way to go. 

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
I think it might be useful if users had a forum, subforum, or even thread in which they could, assuming they did so without rancor, discuss moderation -- not necessarily specific incidents, but the way that moderation is carried out and how the mods do business.  I feel that the community could be enriched by having a public forum to provide feedback regarding standards and practices of the forum as a whole and have a reasonable expectation that, even if their suggestions are not acted on, they were in fact read by someone who could have seen fit to take action.


Let me repeat what I posted a couple weeks ago in reply to someone else asking something similar:

If you want to have a discussion about VCL moderation policy, which I am generally happy to do, a new thread in this forum is appropriate. Discussion of specific incidents is usually okay here, though it will almost always be redirected back to a conversation on moderation philosophy.

If you believe a VCL is abusing his power or otherwise doing a poor job, you should contact customer service.

If you want to discuss ORC moderation policy, that is a much touchier subject. You can make a thread in this forum, which can sometimes be beneficial, but is completely non-binding on customer service (and they rarely partcipate, though I can point out the thread to them to look consider). Such threads also usually have a pretty quick lock trigger if they get unruly. Discussion of specific events here is strictly forbidden.

If you want to complain about the specific moderation of an ORC, again contacting customer service is the way to go. 


I suspect Tevish is aware of all this. which is why he said it'd be nice if there was a place to discuss these things. because right now, without discussing any specifics because apparently that'll get me banned, the ORC moderation policy is laughably inconsistent, and applied with the discretion of a two-year-old. I don't believe this is the ORCs' fault, having been around back when WizOs were a thing, so it'd be nice if we could let what I assume are completely competent adults actually go about making this forum work, instead of serving as a point-and-click post removal service and random banning machine.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

Bubba, What is the reasoning behind not being able to discuss ORC actions?
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
Bubba, What is the reasoning behind not being able to discuss ORC actions?


if I recall correctly, they don't discuss moderation actions taken against specific users to protect those users' privacy. despite the fact that a) plenty of other forums do it just fine with no legal repercussions, and b) their own software makes it clear when someone's been banned, because it deletes their avatar and makes their profile off-limits. I have no idea what the reasoning behind not discussing generic ORC moderation policy is, but I suspect it's along the lines of "we don't want to."

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I didn't mean specific actions, I meant overall implementation of policy. I get not discussing specific actions. (There's some legal reasons.) "We don't want to" is a dumb reason. I hope there's more to it than that.
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
Bubba, What is the reasoning behind not being able to discuss ORC actions?


Several reasons. ORCs can't come and defend themselves, so such threads are one-sided. Also, while I think there would be great value in ORCs explicitly stating why actions are taken where they happen, I don't think a separate thread has that value and at that point it is mainly a matter between the offender and CS. Finally, you don't want to encourage people to start a thread arguing every time they are moderated, trying to rules lawyer a justification and generally abusing the ORCs. At best the threads clog up the forum, and usually would devolve into CoC violations themselves.

It should be noted this rule goes back prior to the separation of moderation duties between VCLs and ORCs. Even when we had WizOs, discussion of individual CoC moderation actions was prohibited. I can't speak for the paper side, but I know when the separation occurred hamtastic and later myself made a conscious decision to maintain as much of the policies and sensibilities as possible from the WizO era within the new framework.

Edit: took a while to get this written and EH clarified. I assume it is because they want to keep the boundary somewhat fuzzy to retain flexibility in moderation, reduce complaints and people trying to push the boundary (e.g., X is prohibited, but I didn't do X, I did just short of X, I shouldn't be moderated). They take the same tact in MTGO.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
That makes sense.

I think everyone can agree that the ORCs have a PR Problem. I think it would help if they had some character. They're so shady and hidden, It's natural to think of them as the villians. Being disliked here can't be good for their morale. Maybe having a bio in their sig, stating how long they've played magic/D&D, and some other light information would make them more personal.

Do you think you could talk one into posting about how things look from their side, maybe? How many reports they handle in an hour and such?
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
That makes sense.

I think everyone can agree that the ORCs have a PR Problem. I think it would help if they had some character. They're so shady and hidden, It's natural to think of them as the villians. Being disliked here can't be good for their morale. Maybe having a bio in their sig, stating how long they've played magic/D&D, and some other light information would make them more personal.

Do you think you could talk one into posting about how things look from their side, maybe? How many reports they handle in an hour and such?


More likely I could get Trevor. WotC likes to keep the ORCs firewalled from their personal lives, so I doubt we'd be able to get anything about them personally in their sig. I'll see what I can do.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
More likely I could get Trevor. WotC likes to keep the ORCs firewalled from their personal lives, so I doubt we'd be able to get anything about them personally in their sig. I'll see what I can do.


why is that? the system seemed to work much better back when we had WizOs, who interacted with the community. it gave them both credibility and context. people know them, people know they care, and people can talk to them to get a sense of what they're doing, and it simultaneously better informs their decisions because they're actually a part of the community they're policing. now it comes down to "did someone report it? remove the offending post and do literally nothing else." for the record, the anything else that is not being done often includes glancing through the thread for other posts that quote the moderated post. that is the level to which it appears the moderation does not care.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I have to second Razor's commentary.  In addition to the MTG Paper forums, I frequent D&D Next, and the overall atmosphere seems friendlier, despite the flame wars, because... well, moderation is largley handled by crazy_monkey, VCL emeritus, who takes a more personal approach and is at least in part a member of the community as well as its arbiter of justice.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

The Wizos were probably too involved. Having the authority be so close to the "rank and file" created some intimidation for new users. It shouldn't have, but it did, and I assume that's one of the reasons the ORCs are so different. I feel the ORCs over-corrected this. I'm not saying they should post like normal users, or even like the VCLs. I'm just saying it would be good if they had some character. It is very easy to villianize faceless "goons." It doesn't need to be personal details, even just what decks they're playing or favorite cards would help. Right now, I feel they get no credit for the good they do, and a lot of flak over any perceived mistake.
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
Bubba, What is the reasoning behind not being able to discuss ORC actions?


Several reasons. ORCs can't come and defend themselves,

Why not?

EDIT: Having read a little further into the thread, what I have in mind by the above question is much the same as Razor's. (Although prior to this thread, I wasn't even aware of the rules they apparently work under. Now that I am aware of them, I think they're dumb, counterproductive rules.)
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
I'd like most if they gained the ability to speak in plain language about what was edited and why, rather than giving form posts of "I've removed content from this thread because X is against the CoC."  It seems small, but being able to say "Simmer down, please.  I've had to remove some X because it's against the CoC, so please don't go there." -- in a way where it's clear the mod actually thought about this and wrote the "stuff's been moded post" -- makes the action seem much less robotic.

At least, that's my impression.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

Bubba, What is the reasoning behind not being able to discuss ORC actions?


Several reasons. ORCs can't come and defend themselves,

Why not?



yeah I was gonna comment on this too but I saw it right before I had to leave, then forgot. you can't justify poor policy by the existance of other poor policy. if anything, the fact that they can't defend themselves is an argument against the "ORCs have to pretend to be robots" policy in the first place.

:dueL: 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

The Wizos were probably too involved. Having the authority be so close to the "rank and file" created some intimidation for new users. It shouldn't have, but it did, and I assume that's one of the reasons the ORCs are so different. I feel the ORCs over-corrected this. I'm not saying they should post like normal users, or even like the VCLs. I'm just saying it would be good if they had some character. It is very easy to villianize faceless "goons." It doesn't need to be personal details, even just what decks they're playing or favorite cards would help. Right now, I feel they get no credit for the good they do, and a lot of flak over any perceived mistake.


also, I absolutely disagree here. on pretty much every other forum I've ever been to, the moderators were active members in the community. it gave you the impression that they, you know, cared. now, a lot of those were fan sites, and it's certainly different here because this is the official site of an official business, so they hire moderators instead of just handing the title to active forum members, but the principle remains the same. it's just a better atmosphere if the moderation staff is a part of the community. heck, just fire all the current ORCs and give mod powers to bubba and zammm, and this community will be ten times better off.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

My impression (and it's been a long time since the "schism", as I call it, so my memory may be fuzzy) was that it was a combination of internal politics and concerns (incl. possible legal concerns) over non-employees wielding certain moderation powers. I disagreed with the move then and I still think it was a mistake. But this is the system I have to work in, and I don't have any more control over that than any of you do. The best I can do is share my perception of how the ORCs work and try to keep to the old ways as much as possible in the current system.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
I'm just saying it would be good if they had some character. It is very easy to villianize faceless "goons." It doesn't need to be personal details, even just what decks they're playing or favorite cards would help.

Not all ORCs are Magic players. Even if they were, though, I don't think that kind of window dressing would help.

The major reason the ORCs are seen as faceless robots is that they post like faceless robots. Pretty much every single public ORC post reads like an autogenerated form letter, which they almost invariably are. There is nary a shred of personality to be seen. People judge personality primarily by post contents; a signature or avatar doesn't help when what it's attached to is still a soulless form post.

Tevish is on the right track. Getting rid of the standardized, soulless form text is a necessity.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I think drawing comparisons to Wizos will get us nowhere.  It's blindingly obvious that WotC has completely moved away from that system, for whatever reasons, be they legal, monetary, or a combination.

I don't see why ORCs should make an effort to appear to be part of the community, when they most certainly aren't.  Wizos were paid/compensated to actually integrate into the community and build it from the inside out, a key part of that being the ability to keep order by banning/closing/moving/etc.  That's not what ORCs are, they are just the human interface that decides if something is breaking the rules or not...when it is brought to their attention.  Honestly, I'm sure WotC would just use a computer algorithm if they could, but they can't, so they do the next best thing.  You have to remember that ORCs are customer service, they have multiple jobs...and I think moderating the forums is on the low end of their priorities.

It really feels like WotC is just trying to save money.  Fire all the Wizos, then just add extra duties to the customer service people that were already working....at least from my perspective.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
I think drawing comparisons to Wizos will get us nowhere.  It's blindingly obvious that WotC has completely moved away from that system, for whatever reasons, be they legal, monetary, or a combination.

I don't see why ORCs should make an effort to appear to be part of the community, when they most certainly aren't.  Wizos were paid/compensated to actually integrate into the community and build it from the inside out, a key part of that being the ability to keep order by banning/closing/moving/etc.  That's not what ORCs are, they are just the human interface that decides if something is breaking the rules or not...when it is brought to their attention.  Honestly, I'm sure WotC would just use a computer algorithm if they could, but they can't, so they do the next best thing.  You have to remember that ORCs are customer service, they have multiple jobs...and I think moderating the forums is on the low end of their priorities.

It really feels like WotC is just trying to save money.  Fire all the Wizos, then just add extra duties to the customer service people that were already working....at least from my perspective.


"guys don't act like this is a problem, let me explain how exactly the problem functions, so you can't complain."

everything you said is exactly the issue. it creates a hostile, negative environment, on their own mothership site. the automaton system they have now may be saving them money, but at the cost of their community. maybe that's worth it to them, and judging by how little effort they put into the technical side of the forum I have to assume they just don't care, but if that's the case, why maintain them in the first place? why not let off-site fan forums that actually give a **** cover their forum needs and just not bother paying for this place at all?

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I think drawing comparisons to Wizos will get us nowhere.  It's blindingly obvious that WotC has completely moved away from that system, for whatever reasons, be they legal, monetary, or a combination.

I don't see why ORCs should make an effort to appear to be part of the community, when they most certainly aren't.  Wizos were paid/compensated to actually integrate into the community and build it from the inside out, a key part of that being the ability to keep order by banning/closing/moving/etc.  That's not what ORCs are, they are just the human interface that decides if something is breaking the rules or not...when it is brought to their attention.  Honestly, I'm sure WotC would just use a computer algorithm if they could, but they can't, so they do the next best thing.  You have to remember that ORCs are customer service, they have multiple jobs...and I think moderating the forums is on the low end of their priorities.

It really feels like WotC is just trying to save money.  Fire all the Wizos, then just add extra duties to the customer service people that were already working....at least from my perspective.


"guys don't act like this is a problem, let me explain how exactly the problem functions, so you can't complain."

everything you said is exactly the issue. it creates a hostile, negative environment, on their own mothership site. the automaton system they have now may be saving them money, but at the cost of their community. maybe that's worth it to them, and judging by how little effort they put into the technical side of the forum I have to assume they just don't care, but if that's the case, why maintain them in the first place? why not let off-site fan forums that actually give a **** cover their forum needs and just not bother paying for this place at all?

 

Don't give them ideas...

On the bolded part, I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices that.

Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
I don't really see any need for them to get more personal in their posts. They can appear as involved as they want to, but that doesn't make me satisfied before the actions they do are actually reasonable. I mean, yeah, I get annoyed with the whole "Trolling & Baiting is against the Code of Conduct", especially because interpretations of trolling is a pet peeve of mine, but what the ORC actually posts isn't really something I care about. I think I'd actually prefer if they didn't try to justify their actions, because I would invariably disagree with it.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I don't know why this question hasn't popped into my head before this, but here it goes: Why are ORCs allowed to interact on Magic Online but not on the Magic forums? They have a multitude of form letters there too, but they're at least allowed to converse with some semblance of humanity. I refuse to believe that the difference between post-by-post and chat is so starkly different that a problem would exist.
Delete this forum. I'm dead serious.
I think drawing comparisons to Wizos will get us nowhere.  It's blindingly obvious that WotC has completely moved away from that system, for whatever reasons, be they legal, monetary, or a combination.

I don't see why ORCs should make an effort to appear to be part of the community, when they most certainly aren't.  Wizos were paid/compensated to actually integrate into the community and build it from the inside out, a key part of that being the ability to keep order by banning/closing/moving/etc.  That's not what ORCs are, they are just the human interface that decides if something is breaking the rules or not...when it is brought to their attention.  Honestly, I'm sure WotC would just use a computer algorithm if they could, but they can't, so they do the next best thing.  You have to remember that ORCs are customer service, they have multiple jobs...and I think moderating the forums is on the low end of their priorities.

It really feels like WotC is just trying to save money.  Fire all the Wizos, then just add extra duties to the customer service people that were already working....at least from my perspective.


"guys don't act like this is a problem, let me explain how exactly the problem functions, so you can't complain."

everything you said is exactly the issue. it creates a hostile, negative environment, on their own mothership site. the automaton system they have now may be saving them money, but at the cost of their community. maybe that's worth it to them, and judging by how little effort they put into the technical side of the forum I have to assume they just don't care, but if that's the case, why maintain them in the first place? why not let off-site fan forums that actually give a **** cover their forum needs and just not bother paying for this place at all?

 

I think their actions have shown quite clearly that it is worth it to them.

In MTGO whenever someone has a problem with something, it invariably turns to "well, you have a problem, then start voting with your wallet!".  Of course, on MTGO, no one ever does that, everyone just keeps pumping money into the system.

Now, on the forums, that has actually happened.  People have left the forums in droves.  They are an empty husk of their former glory.  Does that actually effect how WotC operates?  Heck no!

That's their #1 biggest motivator to change anything here: traffic.  If reduced traffic didn't bring about change, then complaints by peons like you or I aren't going to do a lick of good.  I was just trying to get that across to you.  Help you and everyone else save some breath.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
I don't know why this question hasn't popped into my head before this, but here it goes: Why are ORCs allowed to interact on Magic Online but not on the Magic forums? They have a multitude of form letters there too, but they're at least allowed to converse with some semblance of humanity.


I was wondering about this, too. Of course, on there, they usually answer questions like "is (card) legal in (format)?," "When does (event) start?" and "how do I report a bug?" Regular users answer these types of questions very quickly here.

That said, is there any difference in their stated goals between the two? Could the ORCs be more proactive, the way they are on MTGO? Do we even want that?
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
I make a good ORC guys!
Real men hold shift. If everyone has their fingers in the pie, then someone is eating fingers.
I make a good ORC guys!

...No, you wouldn't. Sorry.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I make a good ORC guys!

...No, you wouldn't. Sorry.


Y u mean to me Zammie!
Real men hold shift. If everyone has their fingers in the pie, then someone is eating fingers.
www.surveymonkey.com/s/MTG

WotC is actually asking what we think of their site! In an offical way! This is the place to complain about the forums and get something done!
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
From the looks of it they're focusing more on the non-Community side of the site, but I'll take what I can get.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

www.surveymonkey.com/s/MTG

WotC is actually asking what we think of their site! In an offical way! This is the place to complain about the forums and get something done!


OH MAN

so at the end they ask what time would work best for your interview.

DOESN'T LIST A TIME ZONE

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

It asks for your zip code at the end?
Check out my cube!
Show
My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
so it would seem.  Since it does that, it's likely that the time would be "local"

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

I wouldn't be so sure. they have a set subset of times to choose from (as I recall, 1-3, 3-5, 5-7) now, the reason not to offer all times is because your staff is only there at certain times. if they can call me on the west coast at 6, they should be able to call my brother on the east coast at 9. and if they can call him at 1, they can call me at 10. so why limit to those times?

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I would be far less critical of the moderation if they were less touchy about criticism and not so damnably sloppy. I've seen, on several occasions, ORCs moderate a post for "offensive language", but leave the exact same words untouched in several posts where it was quoted, and a few where it was referenced without quotes. I get the distinct impression that they come in, read the one post that was reported, take action on that post, then leave. No thoroughness, no attention to detail. If I did a job that sloppy I'd expect to be fired. And every time I've pointed it out, they get vindictive. Oh, do they get vindictive.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

Hey there,

If someone has hit "quote post" at the same time as the ORC going in for the edit, and the person who is quoting doesn't submit his post until after the ORC has gone (likely because the quoter was in the middle of composing his response) then the ORC won't see that quote until that is also reported. That could account for some instances where the original post gets edited but further posts do not. If you see quotes that contain violations, please report those posts as well.

Thanks,

Monica
If someone has hit "quote post" at the same time as the ORC going in for the edit, and the person who is quoting doesn't submit his post until after the ORC has gone (likely because the quoter was in the middle of composing his response) then the ORC won't see that quote until that is also reported.


Monica, when the text in question was quoted and the quote in the thread for over 10 minutes before an ORC takes action, there is no damn excuse. And I see this frequently. Quite simply put, this is sloppy, and betrays the fact that the mods just don't care about the quality of their work. (Or if that they do care than they should find different work, because they do a horrible job at this.)

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

While the quote-while-editing scenario is possible, and probably happens regularly, there've been many occasions where I've seen a post get edited while quotes of it that are hours or even days old remain untouched.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

what upsets me most about that response is that it made sense to you, which means you've been paying about 0 attention to these forums. this isn't a new complaint, and it happens with enough frequency that you'd think someone whose job it was to care about these forums would be at least vaguely aware.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

what upsets me most about that response is that it made sense to you, which means you've been paying about 0 attention to these forums. this isn't a new complaint, and it happens with enough frequency that you'd think someone whose job it was to care about these forums would be at least vaguely aware.

 


This. A hundred times this.

Except I think you are aware, Monica, but don't come out and address it out of a very practical fear that admitting there is a problem might make you look bad with the higher ups.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

Sign In to post comments