A call to end the hostility on this board.

Over the past several weeks I've noticed a marked increase in the amount of flaming, trolling, and overall hostility that people are showing towards each other on this board. Can we please not do this? It's really unbecoming and pointless. We all just want to play D&D, right? 
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
Unfortunately, some people want to force the rest of us to play D&D the way they do, and no other way.  Until these people undo their cranial-rectal inversions, it will continue.

Always remember: The Block User Function Is Your Best Friend.
Weird, that kind of sounds like a one wayism itself, given that it seems wizards will just take ideas and make a new 'optional mode' or whatever one could use.


LordofKhyber,
basically people often treat their ideas at such a personal level that to have their ideas critiqued is like recieving an ad homenim attack.

"In the game there is magic" - Orethalion

 

Only got words in my copy.

Everyone just wants to live on the planet right? 

Wrong.

Argument will continue so long as people have different ideologies, which will be forever. If this were not true, we would have had world peace long ago.

It's a noble goal, but the fact that people don't always agree is why this playtest was set up in the first place. Debate is healthy for the development of the game. Unfortunately debate easily turns into hostility. Such is the way of life.

People should attempt to chill out though. I even get hot headed sometimes, I will admit. 
My two copper.
Over the past several weeks I've noticed a marked increase in the amount of flaming, trolling, and overall hostility that people are showing towards each other on this board. Can we please not do this? It's really unbecoming and pointless. We all just want to play D&D, right? 



Given the cynical remarks in your signature, I'd say your only adding fuel to the fire lol.

" D&D Next makes me feel:
Bored
Frustrated
Ignored by WotC "


- - -

Basically, the fighting starts when people start getting emotional or make condescending remarks. And often its not that they are bad people, its just how they communicate or express themselves. Best we can do is take it with a grain of salt.

separate The styles of play from edition to edition varies so much that arguments are almost inevitable, its not gonna stop until Wizards finally release the thing and then people will either stick around or go their seperate ways.
I believe we isolated the problem in my satire thread:

So who the heck are you to empower the designers to make choices in MY game? They need to put down basic game rules that don't get in the way of my fun and creativity in any way. They also need to cover everything I need them to cover under any circumstance. My silent majority knows exactly how to accomplish this but they're listening to the few squeaky wheels instead of us!


Ladies and gentlemen, in the category "describe the average D&D forum argument in 5 sentences or less" we have a winner!

This is a masterpiece 

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I believe we isolated the problem in my satire thread:

So who the heck are you to empower the designers to make choices in MY game? They need to put down basic game rules that don't get in the way of my fun and creativity in any way. They also need to cover everything I need them to cover under any circumstance. My silent majority knows exactly how to accomplish this but they're listening to the few squeaky wheels instead of us!


Ladies and gentlemen, in the category "describe the average D&D forum argument in 5 sentences or less" we have a winner!

This is a masterpiece 



True dat. +1
My two copper.
There are several things that cause some of the hostility. Sometimes it's because the original post WAS hostile, and people are reacting.

But one thing I've noticed is that lately there has been a tendency for *some* people to take an innocent statement of opinion as if it were declaration of superiority and get bent out of shape.

Something people need to remember is that this board exists for people to share their opinion about the current playtest packet. That means people are going to constantly be posting feedback about their preferences. This does not automatically mean that the OP of a thread thinks their position is superior. Granted, some OPs of threads do come across with an air of superiority, but unfortunately that has caused people who don't have that attitude to be treated as if they did.
I think people are just getting anxious because it has been almost 3 months since the last full packet release.

As time passes and the flaws are discovered, yeah, I've noted that it tends to be cyclic.
As time passes and the flaws are discovered, yeah, I've noted that it tends to be cyclic.


very true. And after 3 months, the flaws are not just "discovered", they're getting to be annoyances and agravations.
Try radiance RPG. A complete D20 game that supports fantasy and steampunk. Download the FREE PDF here: http://www.radiancerpg.com
As time passes and the flaws are discovered, yeah, I've noted that it tends to be cyclic.


Yes there are deffinate highs and lows. It comes in trends. For a while everyone was on skills, then bounded accuracy, then fighter's out of combat stuff.

It comes and goes.
My two copper.
+1 to... the entire thread, I guess?

I think we have a few posters who "overreact".  A lot.  Loudly.  In nearly every thread.  For pages.

I think we also have a few posters who can't keep their "X was [insert phrase meaning 'something DDN shouldn't support because it's bad for either a stated reason or implied reasons']" in their pants, as it were.  A lot.  Loudly (though less loudly than that other group, honestly).  In nearly every thread.  For pages.

But I honestly think it's better than I've seen the forums at several points (not just for DDN, but the D&D forums in general).

A new packet would be great, but then the forums will just be inundated with a new round of "I don't like X" and "X is the end of the world" and "I like X" and "Stop complaining about X" and "Why does everyone always say the sky is falling".  And I'm... not really sure that's a better tone to the forums.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
+1 to... the entire thread, I guess?

I think we have a few posters who "overreact".  A lot.  Loudly.  In nearly every thread.  For pages.

I think we also have a few posters who can't keep their "X was [insert phrase meaning 'something DDN shouldn't support because it's bad for either a stated reason or implied reasons']" in their pants, as it were.  A lot.  Loudly (though less loudly than that other group, honestly).  In nearly every thread.  For pages.

But I honestly think it's better than I've seen the forums at several points (not just for DDN, but the D&D forums in general).

A new packet would be great, but then the forums will just be inundated with a new round of "I don't like X" and "X is the end of the world" and "I like X" and "Stop complaining about X" and "Why does everyone always say the sky is falling".  And I'm... not really sure that's a better tone to the forums.


The tone may not be quantitatively better, but it does sound different.

I tried something similar months ago on the 4e boards. Miserable failure. Don't get your hopes up too much, but it could still happen. Just be aware that not everyone will cooperate.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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Given that the worst "problems" come from a handful of posters (maybe two handfuls, at best), having "not everyone" cooperate really won't ever be enough.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Over the past several weeks I've noticed a marked increase in the amount of flaming, trolling, and overall hostility that people are showing towards each other on this board. Can we please not do this? It's really unbecoming and pointless. We all just want to play D&D, right? 

I don't hear anyone saying 'herehere.' Everyone seems to think they're innocent. I have no idea if I've ever been hostile. I'll just say here LordofKhyber that I'll try not to be.

It's noble of you to post this, so thank you. Now, can we talk about d&dnext?
this thread seems like its gunna get real productive soon...

seriously though this thread already has vitriol leaking into in it nice and passive agressive amounts.

I think someone earlier said it best. A lot of people get too attached to their ideas and take it personally when those ideas are criticized. 
I think my reaction to the vitriol could best be summed up by my feelings about Next as a whole... "Meh."

I've long since concluded that this game is not going to be for me or the people I play with (and I'm okay with that... I'm in several well-established groups who often play long out-of-print games so playing 4E for the next ten years or so isn't a burden on me in any respect) so I'm mostly here just to watch the theory-crafting and scrounge the fan proposals (90% of which are far better than what's coming out of playtest packets) for houserule ideas. Having everyone agree would kill those things dead.
Interesting responses littered about.

In my own opinion, the truly contentious issue is that an easily identifiable group of contributors only posts when they feel moved to 'correct' a mode of thinking, or show someone the 'error' in their outlook. Their approach to the community comes from a place of devisiveness, and it nurtures a hostile atmosphere where submitting a thought results in the same feedback one would receive from willingly sticking their hand in a bear trap.

If we can be objective, there is a serious amount of bullying that goes on around here, and there's absolutely no tolerance for people who have a more closed view by virtue of their having very little exposure to the larger gaming community. I see taunting, baiting, and trolling going on all the time, and it creates an atmosphere that really discourages people from contributing.

There's an incredible amount of examples where 'X forumgoer with a dozen or so posts under his belt' makes a statement, only to be immediately descended upon by 'Y forumgoer with thousands of posts under his belt' who self-righteously acts as though his snide contributions are going to show X forumgoer the badwrongness of everything he thinks, wants, and desires.

People come herely solely to grind axes, it seems.

It's sad, and it's a huge disservice to the hobby.

 

Danny

I will stop responding with hostility when I stop egtting hostility from other people.
Yeah... I used to try to use even tones and persuasion, or just present my views on a topic w/out... malice? But, I've noticed a small amount of derision and sarcasm find their way into my posting. Thanks for calling for a moment to reflect.
I have to wonder, did the OP grow out of the rust monster debate where people criticized the post's initial tone? I thought it became a rather civil discussion, but I haven't checked it in a few hours.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
Over the past several weeks I've noticed a marked increase in the amount of flaming, trolling, and overall hostility that people are showing towards each other on this board. Can we please not do this? It's really unbecoming and pointless. We all just want to play D&D, right? 



this really is a wonderful idea,

I try to remind myslef that much of the passion we see comes from a genuine desire to make the game better, and also that it is so easy to mis-read someone's tone. Still, there is at least a few folks who seem to take things very personally and respond in kind.

There is also another group of vocal posters who try to keep things civil too, and that is appreciated too

  
It is probably boredom and frustration. There is not really that many packet left to playtest and a lot of classes to cover. Can't really take it out on WoTC so we take it out on each other would be my guess.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I still say that most it has to do with what I call "gamer PTSD."  Enough of us have been here through the various edition wars, that it sometimes gets easy to see legitimate criticisms as edition war bait.  And it certainly doesn't help that some people are just tossing out real edition war bait, and that others are offering legitimate criticisms but accidentally (hopefully) framing them in the same manner as edition war bait.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Can it be also because we are running out of things to argue about?

I mean, i've seen at least 3 treads devoted exclusively to the fighter's OOC abilities (or lack thereof) and they all run in at 100 post long or more.  At one point, the argument gets stale and people start complaining about their oposition's lack of flexibility (while showing absolutely none themselves)... because everything has been said, and no concensus has been reached.
Yet we have nothing new to chew on... so we go back to old arguments, but try and disguise the discussion as vaguely something else, in the hope that THIS TIME, we will get our point across to EVERYONE

We need a new packet ASAP: we know this one inside and out and the discusion has ENDED: the forum has spoken on it, but now it's like a talk-show host that has to fill the last 47 seconds of the show with no material because the commercials guy got the timing wrong. 
Try radiance RPG. A complete D20 game that supports fantasy and steampunk. Download the FREE PDF here: http://www.radiancerpg.com
Can it be also because we are running out of things to argue about?

I mean, i've seen at least 3 treads devoted exclusively to the fighter's OOC abilities (or lack thereof) and they all run in at 100 post long or more.  At one point, the argument gets stale and people start complaining about their oposition's lack of flexibility (while showing absolutely none themselves)... because everything has been said, and no concensus has been reached.
Yet we have nothing new to chew on... so we go back to old arguments, but try and disguise the discussion as vaguely something else, in the hope that THIS TIME, we will get our point across to EVERYONE

We need a new packet ASAP: we know this one inside and out and the discusion has ENDED: the forum has spoken on it, but now it's like a talk-show host that has to fill the last 47 seconds of the show with no material because the commercials guy got the timing wrong. 



Maybe, but I think it has a lot to do with some really contentious topics coming up over the past few weeks, namely how healing is going to work and how the Warlord class is going to work.  
...whatever
Over the past several weeks I've noticed a marked increase in the amount of flaming, trolling, and overall hostility that people are showing towards each other on this board. Can we please not do this? It's really unbecoming and pointless. We all just want to play D&D, right? 



Not exactly.

We all want to play D&D sure...the problem is that some people want to play the wrong D&D, and until those individuals are forced to leave the hobby for good, I'm afraid that hostilities must continue for the good of the game.




I could personally care less about what other people play. What irritates me here is people trying to tell me that all is well with Next when all I see is a game in complete conflict with what I want out of D&D.
...whatever
Over the past several weeks I've noticed a marked increase in the amount of flaming, trolling, and overall hostility that people are showing towards each other on this board. Can we please not do this? It's really unbecoming and pointless. We all just want to play D&D, right? 



Not exactly.

We all want to play D&D sure...the problem is that some people want to play the wrong D&D, and until those individuals are forced to leave the hobby for good, I'm afraid that hostilities must continue for the good of the game.



And that's another example of the problem too.  If that's sacasm or a joke, let us know.  This is the internet.   I can't hear your tone of voice or see your facial cues.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Can it be also because we are running out of things to argue about?

I mean, i've seen at least 3 treads devoted exclusively to the fighter's OOC abilities (or lack thereof) and they all run in at 100 post long or more.  At one point, the argument gets stale and people start complaining about their oposition's lack of flexibility (while showing absolutely none themselves)... because everything has been said, and no concensus has been reached.
Yet we have nothing new to chew on... so we go back to old arguments, but try and disguise the discussion as vaguely something else, in the hope that THIS TIME, we will get our point across to EVERYONE

We need a new packet ASAP: we know this one inside and out and the discusion has ENDED: the forum has spoken on it, but now it's like a talk-show host that has to fill the last 47 seconds of the show with no material because the commercials guy got the timing wrong. 




I agree with this.  I mean I had a realization about their overall design scheme because I've had to have the arguments so many times (and it has since changed my stance on a bunch of things), but it does get really old having to say the exact same thing over and over again, or differently answer the same question over and over.  I also find it really anoying when we shatter discussions into like 5 threads on the same exact topic.  It makes it really hard to track the discussion and really hard to have a constructive conversation about the subject because your participating in 5 different conversations...sometimes all with the same people.
It is probably boredom and frustration. There is not really that many packet left to playtest and a lot of classes to cover. Can't really take it out on WoTC so we take it out on each other would be my guess.



I disagree.  I think it's a couple of things combined.

-We have two irreconcilable groups here,  4th edition fans and non-4th edition fans.  Both groups want 5th edition to be an evolution of the mechanics of their favorite edition.

-We have seen in the past that message boards can affect game design,  and that if you have enough people complaining about something it can be changed.

-Some small subset are really mad that 4th edition was stopped faster than previous editions.

It's the edition wars.  It's a polite form of the edition wars,  but it's still the edition wars.  When you read the arguements,  that's what it's really about.  When you go into the fighter threads,  what's the fight about?  Is it really about the fighter,  or is it about the 4th edition fighter vs the other editions?

Similiarly,  what's the Dragonborn fight,  or the Magic Systems fights really about?  The Alignment system fights?  The healing fights?

It's all about edition wars.         
It is probably boredom and frustration. There is not really that many packet left to playtest and a lot of classes to cover. Can't really take it out on WoTC so we take it out on each other would be my guess.



I disagree.  I think it's a couple of things combined.

-We have two irreconcilable groups here,  4th edition fans and non-4th edition fans.  Both groups want 5th edition to be an evolution of the mechanics of their favorite edition.

-We have seen in the past that message boards can affect game design,  and that if you have enough people complaining about something it can be changed.

-Some small subset are really mad that 4th edition was stopped faster than previous editions.

It's the edition wars.  It's a polite form of the edition wars,  but it's still the edition wars.  When you read the arguements,  that's what it's really about.  When you go into the fighter threads,  what's the fight about?  Is it really about the fighter,  or is it about the 4th edition fighter vs the other editions?

Similiarly,  what's the Dragonborn fight,  or the Magic Systems fights really about?  The Alignment system fights?  The healing fights?

It's all about edition wars.         




being a prime contributer in the fighter threads:

it is in no way an edition fight it is a design paradigm fight.  People disagreeing about what the design paradigm for fighters and the game as a whole should be.  The fighter is the focal point but the implications are about how the system as a whole are being designed.

Please don't bring that fight here guys  leave it in the threads it already exists in. 


Please don't bring that fight here guys  leave it in the threads it already exists in. 


Please don't bring ANY fights here. In a tread about "not fighting" that would pretty much mean we can't get anything right as a group and shouldn't be trusted 
Try radiance RPG. A complete D20 game that supports fantasy and steampunk. Download the FREE PDF here: http://www.radiancerpg.com
It is probably boredom and frustration. There is not really that many packet left to playtest and a lot of classes to cover. Can't really take it out on WoTC so we take it out on each other would be my guess.



I disagree.  I think it's a couple of things combined.

-We have two irreconcilable groups here,  4th edition fans and non-4th edition fans.  Both groups want 5th edition to be an evolution of the mechanics of their favorite edition.

-We have seen in the past that message boards can affect game design,  and that if you have enough people complaining about something it can be changed.

-Some small subset are really mad that 4th edition was stopped faster than previous editions.

It's the edition wars.  It's a polite form of the edition wars,  but it's still the edition wars.  When you read the arguements,  that's what it's really about.  When you go into the fighter threads,  what's the fight about?  Is it really about the fighter,  or is it about the 4th edition fighter vs the other editions?

Similiarly,  what's the Dragonborn fight,  or the Magic Systems fights really about?  The Alignment system fights?  The healing fights?

It's all about edition wars.         



Its a fight because they(WotC) are trying to shoehorn multiple mutually exclusive philosophies on what D&D should be into a single system.
...whatever
it is also because they released an alpha verison of the game. there are alot of questions that should have been answered before packet 1 hit the testing circut. and when you give out 1/100th of a game people have no idea the structure of the game as a whole. they should have given atleast a year for development before player testing. they have in house groups they test with anyway. wotc allows all this to go on in the forums and just stops major trolling and language, so they are the cause of the issue and are just standing by closed mouthed. i play alot of wow, when there is an issue in a forum a blue post from a designer or blizzard employee is made and the issue is over. why dont wotc just post in reply to the thread this is how things will be for issue x and then say if a module will be made to alter it.
You tend to see a lot of circular arguments.

Rarely, if ever, do you see discussions that take everyone's issues with a system /class/etc.  to heart.

Often, those issues are presented with little to no explaination...  they come from an emotional place and elicit an emotional reaction.

Other times, someone will raise an issue with a suggested solution, and people will just harp on the solution rather than deal with whether or not there actually is an issue. 

This is going to continue forever and ever though, because the goals of each system are not well laid out.  

If someone asks, "Why bounded accuracy?" you might respond with "It avoids the treadmill issues of the past and keeps low level monsters relevant".  If they, in turn, respond with "What if I don't want low level monsters to be relevant?  What if I liked the power scaling of previous editions?"..... then the thread will come to a screeching halt because that person is now just a backward thinking idiot.  Comments will fly about how they can houserule it however they want and screw up balance and all sorts of inflamatory or dismissive things will be said.

 But that example just shows that a reduced power scale is not a universal desire from D&D players....  which means that the first response, though it might mirror what the Devs say pretty closely, is not useful to the original poster who asked the question.

Poorly defined design goals and the pipe-dream of "universal appeal" make these discussions truly difficult.  If you take the emotions out... if you take out the subjective unsupportable beliefs each person has concerning what D&D should be, and what its focus should be.... if you take those things out... there is no conversation.

Because there is no objective way to be "correct" or "incorrect" in any of these debates.  This would be helped immensely if the Devs would talk about clear design goals for each system and make clear examples of where the design process is finished (or even just close).  Are the classes close to completion? Spell lists?  Are we looking at 10%?  80%?  If I knew that the classes were only 35% finished, I would be far more forgiving.  If I knew they were 95% finished, I would leave the forums and give up on DDN.  Either way, threads get nicer.

They must have some idea.  They have to make decisions in some coherent way right?  Give us the design philosophy for the fighter class, give us the same conceptual rubric that you used to design it and we can grade it under the same set of premises.

Until that happens, the conversations here will be subjective, emotional, personal and heated.   
It is probably boredom and frustration. There is not really that many packet left to playtest and a lot of classes to cover. Can't really take it out on WoTC so we take it out on each other would be my guess.



I disagree.  I think it's a couple of things combined.

-We have two irreconcilable groups here,  4th edition fans and non-4th edition fans.  Both groups want 5th edition to be an evolution of the mechanics of their favorite edition.

-We have seen in the past that message boards can affect game design,  and that if you have enough people complaining about something it can be changed.

-Some small subset are really mad that 4th edition was stopped faster than previous editions.

It's the edition wars.  It's a polite form of the edition wars,  but it's still the edition wars.  When you read the arguements,  that's what it's really about.  When you go into the fighter threads,  what's the fight about?  Is it really about the fighter,  or is it about the 4th edition fighter vs the other editions?

Similiarly,  what's the Dragonborn fight,  or the Magic Systems fights really about?  The Alignment system fights?  The healing fights?

It's all about edition wars.         



Its a fight because they(WotC) are trying to shoehorn multiple mutually exclusive philosophies on what D&D should be into a single system.



Huh,  this thread really is made of magic.  TCO and I finally agree on something!
It is probably boredom and frustration. There is not really that many packet left to playtest and a lot of classes to cover. Can't really take it out on WoTC so we take it out on each other would be my guess.



I disagree.  I think it's a couple of things combined.

-We have two irreconcilable groups here,  4th edition fans and non-4th edition fans.  Both groups want 5th edition to be an evolution of the mechanics of their favorite edition.

-We have seen in the past that message boards can affect game design,  and that if you have enough people complaining about something it can be changed.

-Some small subset are really mad that 4th edition was stopped faster than previous editions.

It's the edition wars.  It's a polite form of the edition wars,  but it's still the edition wars.  When you read the arguements,  that's what it's really about.  When you go into the fighter threads,  what's the fight about?  Is it really about the fighter,  or is it about the 4th edition fighter vs the other editions?

Similiarly,  what's the Dragonborn fight,  or the Magic Systems fights really about?  The Alignment system fights?  The healing fights?

It's all about edition wars.         



Its a fight because they(WotC) are trying to shoehorn multiple mutually exclusive philosophies on what D&D should be into a single system.



Huh,  this thread really is made of magic.  TCO and I finally agree on something!


I agreed with Mand12 once last week. Miracles happen.
...whatever
I think it's a couple of things combined.

-We have two irreconcilable groups here,  4th edition fans and non-4th edition fans.  Both groups want 5th edition to be an evolution of the mechanics of their favorite edition.



Or as I like to phrase it: Those who like to play DnD Right and those that dont.

Some days it is hard to tell which side is which.

Member of the Axis of Awesome

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Homogenising: Making vanilla in 31 different colours
I see it as moving forwards or backwards. To move forward you must accept D&D as a whole (every version), otherwise you want to retract certain features. But the easiest way to end hostility is to have your say a move on. Don't take things to a personal level, even if someone does not agree with you, and do to a misconception or lack of tact, you take offense to it. Just shrug it off.

It is guaranteed each one of us will take any specific reply out of context.  
I see the infighting and hostility on these boards as nothing more than blatant Nerd rage. The impassioned rambleings of those who finally felt that they once had something that appealed to them, accepted them, and validated their playstyle, attitude, and made them part of a fraternity and then had the rug jerked out from under them. Old school pre wotc Story centered- yoink, 3e D20 system mastery -yoink!, 4e. New school combat specific game balance- Yoink! So then the edition wars ensue. I would contend that the Fans didn't actually start them, it is a product of Wotc's buisiness practices. We just go to bat for our sacred cow. Every editon is just that.
    My main issue with D&D Next thus far personally is that it feels like a luke warm upchuck of ideas that leave me utterly bored. Multi editon input seems to be the last thing the developers want Next to become. As an advocate for multiple playstyles and cross edition input I feel as if I and my knights (WTF) have spent nearly nine months screaming into a vaccuum and playing traffic Cop amongst a group of fans who do not even want to be united.
      Will Next be the game it could have been if we had gotten it together as a group and received the best ideas from across each edition and incorperated them into our feedback? No, I'm afraid not. The warring that goes on here doesn't seem to bother the orcs most of the time. I have even read profanity that goes unmoderated. But should you call out a staff member you will be banned. Man WTF? Will The editon wars end? Not as long as we are willing to take up the sword to fight them.


Remember,              "Edition Wars Kill Players and that Kills D&D" 
                              Brightmantle, First Knight of the Brave Order of WTF.