first strike

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rule:

510.5. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.

quote:


 the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike 


question: does that mean creatures without first or double strike cant block in the combat step wich is created for the attacking creature with first strike?

question: or can they block but assign no combat damade to the creature they block?


 
There isn't a separate combat phase, just a separate combat damage step.

Basically, it works like this: First, all attackers are declared. Then, all blockers are declared. Then all creatures with first strike or double strike assign/deal their combat damage. Then, all creatures with double strike and all creatures that didn't just assign combat damage assign/deal their combat damage.
All blockers are declared in the declare blockers step, which comes before the first combat damage step. If a creature without first strike or double strike blocks or is blocked by a creature that has either ability, it must survive a hit from that creature in the first combat damage step, in order to hit back in the second combat damage step.
All blockers are declared in the declare blockers step, which comes before the first combat damage step. If a creature without first strike or double strike blocks or is blocked by a creature that has either ability, it must survive a hit from that creature in the first combat damage step, in order to hit back in the second combat damage step.




so if a 5/5(no skill) blocks a 2/2(with first strike) it becomes  5/3 and the 2/2 survives that first combat damage step?

and if 2/2(fs) blocks 5/5 (ns)  5/5 becomes 5/3 and 2/2 survives again ?

what if 5/5 (double strike)  is blocked by 2/2 (ns). does 5/5  have 5 pow still for that round ? or it has 3 damage left to deal in the 2. step?

im sorry this first strike thingy confuses me most over all.  :/

so if a 5/5(no skill) blocks a 2/2(with first strike) it becomes  5/3 and the 2/2 survives that first combat damage step?

Damage doesn't reduce a creature's toughness.

First strike is simple:


  1. Attackers are declared

  2. Blockers are declared

  3. Creatures with first strike and/or double strike deal combat damage

  4. Other creatures and creatures with double strike deal combat damage. 

Rules Advisor

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Damage does not reduce toughness, unless that damage comes from a source with infect or wither, and then it is the -1/-1 counters that reduce the toughness. A 5/5 that takes 2 damage, is a 5/5 with 2 damage marked on it. The 2/2 first striker survives the first combat damage step, yes, since nothing dealt damage to it yet. It will die in the second combat damage step by receiving 5 damage from the 5/5. Which of those two creatures is blocking the other is irrelevant, the out come is the same either way.

If the 5/5 has double strike, it will deal 5 damage in the first combat damage step, and then 5 again in the second combat damage step. If the creature it blocked or was blocked by is destroyed due to the first 5 damage, it will deal no combat damage in the second combat damage step, since there's nothing left to assign combat damage to.
so if a 5/5(no skill) blocks a 2/2(with first strike) it becomes  5/3 and the 2/2 survives that first combat damage step?

Damage doesn't reduce a creature's toughness.

First strike is simple:


  1. Attackers are declared

  2. Blockers are declared

  3. Creatures with first strike and/or double strike deal combat damage

  4. Other creatures and creatures with double strike deal combat damage. 





does the damage assigned to the creatures reset at the beginning of the second combat damage step? might be the question im trying to ask here :D

 
Creatures deal combat damage equal to their power. Since the power doesn't change, there's nothing to reset. no need to reset anything.

Edit: Or are you asking, when the marked damage is removed? That happens in the cleanup step at the end of the turn or when the replacement effects of certain abilities (regeneration, totem armor) are applied.

i ment the assigned damage when i said 5/5 becomes 5/3.

but i get it now. what i didnt understand was the point of first strike.

now as i know, a blocked first striker does not take combat damage from a blocking creature without first strike or double strike it all makes sence.

i didnt see the advantege of first strike without knowing that.

thanx evryone 
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does the damage assigned to the creatures reset at the beginning of the second combat damage step? might be the question im trying to ask here :D

 



No, damage doesn't wear off until the cleanup step at the very end of the turn. 


To add some details to the examples and hopefully tie it together:

1. Attackers are declared (2/2 first strike)
2. Blockers are declared (5/5)
3. First strike combat damage is dealt (5/5 has 2 damage marked on it)
4. Normal combat damage is dealt (5/5 has 4 damage marked on it, 2/2 FS takes 5 damage and dies)
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does the damage assigned to the creatures reset at the beginning of the second combat damage step? might be the question im trying to ask here :D

 



No, damage doesn't wear off until the cleanup step at the very end of the turn. 


To add some details to the examples and hopefully tie it together:

1. Attackers are declared (2/2 first strike)
2. Blockers are declared (5/5)
3. First strike combat damage is dealt (5/5 has 2 damage marked on it)
4. Normal combat damage is dealt (5/5 has 4 damage marked on it, 2/2 FS takes 5 damage and dies)


Either you meant the 2/2 has double strike, or the 5/5 has 2 damage marked after the second combat damage step.

now as i know, a blocked first striker does not take combat damage from a blocking creature without first strike or double strike it all makes sence.



That sentence, taken in isolation, is wildly inaccurate.

 A blocked first striker will take combat damage from a creature without first strike or double strike if that creature survives the first/doublestrike damage.

If a Hurloon Minotaur blocks or is blocked by a White Knight. the Hurloon Minotaur will take 2 first strike damage, and since that didn't kill it, it will live to deal 2 non-first-strike damage to the White Knight, which will kill it.  Hurloon Minotaur lives, White Knight dies.

Now, replace Hurloon Minotaur with Garruk's Companion and you'll see the difference.  The Companion will take 2 first strike damage, which WILL kill it, and thus it won't still be around to deal any damage at all to the White Knight.  White Knight lives, Garruk's Companion dies.

In summary,


  • only creatures with first and double strike assign and deal damage in the first combat damage step  

  • only creatures that haven't struck yet in this combat phase and creatures with double strike assign and deal damage in the second combat damage step

  • there's only two combat damage steps if a creature with first or double strike is involved in combat as the combat damage step starts, otherwise there's only one combat damage step and all creatures involved in combat will strike

  • blocked creatures with no opposing blockers don't assign or deal damage unless they have trample

  • blocking creatures with no opposing attackers don't assign or deal damage

  • damage does not reduce toughness, a 5/5 hit for 2 damage is still a 5/5, it just has 2 damage marked on it

  • creatures in combat assign damage equal to their power in each step in which they strike so a 2/2 double striker could deal 2 in the first step and then 2 again in the second step

  • damage remains marked on a creature until the cleanup step of the end phase of the turn

  • spells and abilities can be activated in a step after combat damage has been dealt so a 2/2 first striker can deal 2 damage to a 5/5 in the first damage step and you could Lightning Bolt the 5/5 in the first step to kill the 5/5 before it would strike 

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In summary,


  • only creatures with first and double strike assign and deal damage in the first damage step  

  • only creatures that haven't struck yet in this combat phase and creatures with double strike assign and deal damage in the second combat damage step

  • blocked creatures with no opposing blockers don't assign or deal damage unless they have trample

  • blocking creatures with no opposing attackers don't assign or deal damage

  • damage does not reduce toughness a 5/5 hit for 2 damage is still a 5/5

  • creatures in combat assign damage equal to their power in each step in which they strike so a 2/2 double striker could deal 2 in the first step and then 2 again in the second step

  • damage remains marked on a creature until the cleanup step of the end phase of the turn

  • spells and abilities can be activated between combat damage steps so a 2/2 first striker can deal 2 damage to a 5/5 in the first damage step and you could Lightning Bolt the 5/5 in the first step to kill the 5/5 before it would strike 



Cool
tweaked it a bit

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out