Illumination

Reading the D&D Next DM Guidelines and How to Play, this is what I gather:

Dim Light: No Effect on Combat however creatures with special Stealth abilities (such as wood elves) can use Dim Light to hide.

Darkness: Creatures have Disadvantage in Combat

-----

Given that a torch gives off 20' radius of Bright Light and another 20' radius of Dim Light, this means that characters within 8 squares of the source of light have no real worries.

In a typical dungeon, corridors and rooms don't very often reach a full 8 square (40 ft.) radius. So essentially it brings me to the topic:

What is the point of darkness? It's assumed at least one caster has the light cantrip anyway so the DM can't even try to limit your torches. This in my opinion takes away the sense of fear one faces in the dungeon.

I think we need to either lessen the radius of torchlight and the light spell to 10 ft. radius or perhaps give more 'omph' to Dim Light, I mean even 3.5 Dim Light at least gave off a 20% miss-chance.

And how (dare I say) realistic is that? Does a torch really give off that much light?

What do you think? How do you increase the effectiveness of darkness in your campaigns?
Darkness can be caused by more than just shadows. Certain monsters (and even wizard PCs) can create magical darkness, some of which ignores mundane light sources. I think the purpose in making dim lighting have no effect on combat is to make sure that, in an average fight, the players don't have to track their movement around the battlefiend as much, but the torch's light may not shine all the way down a dark hallway. Also, dim light may not have an effect on combat, but outside of combat it can make it easier for a creature to hide.
 Torches give off roughly that amount of light, I think. Dim light is generally what I would call a moonlit night: not so dark that you cannot see, but dark enough that a stealthy person can benefit from the additional cover. Darkness is total lack of light. So a torch that sheds light to a maximum of 40 ft. seems realistic.
 In my campaigns, darkness is used sometimes, such as when the party is exploring a tomb or dungeon. Most of the time, we don't bother with how it affects our battles, unless someone is playing a Rogue or a monster is supposed to be lurking in the shadows. But sometimes we come to a pit too deep for us to see the bottom, and the characters start to hear weird noises...
I completely agree, I've been quite unhappy with darkness pretty much in all editions. Darkness is the perfect fodder for suspense, and they go and blow it by allowing you to see up to 40 ft. away with a 1 cp pieces of equipment. I won't even go down my tirade of sunrods in 4e (20 squares, 100 ft!, 4 hours! All bright light! 2gp!)

I think keeping dim light out of combat is a strategy of theirs to keep things simpler, which I in some respects applaud. As it stands, you really don't need to worry about dim light/shadows until later in the game when more creatures come equipped with special stealth, unless your PCs have something like that.

That said, I do think it needs a mechanic effect to combat. It would encourage melee to close in, it would give stealth characters more to cling on to (sneaking is a whole action after all, and being in shadows means nothing), and it would help condense overall map making in dungeons et al.

Half Cover provides a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex saving throws. Dim Light should provide simply a +2 bonus to AC against creatures who do not have low light vision or darkvision (or other means of detection beyond sight).
Use large combat areas.
There are things that create shadows despite having torches. Things like stalagmites, stalactites, different elevations, narrow/twisting passages, dense vegetation and furniture.

Reality Refracted: Social Contracts

My blog of Random Stuff 

Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke

Back to Product and General D&D Discussions -- because the mobile site is bad. (Fixed!)

There are things that create shadows despite having torches. Things like stalagmites, stalactites, different elevations, narrow/twisting passages, dense vegetation and furniture.



So in effect you are saying I could utilize other elements to change the 'dim light' (in some areas) into 'darkness' (shadows)?
There are things that create shadows despite having torches. Things like stalagmites, stalactites, different elevations, narrow/twisting passages, dense vegetation and furniture.



So in effect you are saying I could utilize other elements to change the 'dim light' (in some areas) into 'darkness' (shadows)?



Yes if you have 10' high book cases you could lower the lighting behind that area. Until the person with the light gets in a position to raise the lighting level.

I used this in an adventure that featured a grue that teleported between the rows in medium sized library. Only one party member had light sources out and it attacked whoever was in a row by themselves. Eventual more people started taking out light sources to deal with the grue and his minion.

Reality Refracted: Social Contracts

My blog of Random Stuff 

Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke

Back to Product and General D&D Discussions -- because the mobile site is bad. (Fixed!)

Use large combat areas.


^ Pretty much this.

Of course, if you're looking for some kind of rule help, I'd suggest wrecking nightvision.  Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.  You could say that anyone in the area of bright light cannot see into the dim light if the torch is between them and the dim light (or go more hardcore and say that looking directly at the torchlight causes you to treat dim light as darkness for 10 minutes or so).  You could also track creature shadows out from the torch (but that sounds like more hasssle than it's worth).

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Illumination's always played a huge role in my campaigns.  It's good to remember that in D&D Next, humans and halflings are about the only things (when considering all the monsters and PC races) that can't see in the dark.  Darkness is a good way for the elves/dwarves to show off, and torches/sunrods are a beacon for all the bad things.  (Especially in the large areas that some players have mentioned.)

It can be fun to turn the majority of the lights off in the gaming room when the party is wandering in darkness.
Illumination's always played a huge role in my campaigns.  It's good to remember that in D&D Next, humans and halflings are about the only things (when considering all the monsters and PC races) that can't see in the dark.  Darkness is a good way for the elves/dwarves to show off, and torches/sunrods are a beacon for all the bad things.  (Especially in the large areas that some players have mentioned.)

It can be fun to turn the majority of the lights off in the gaming room when the party is wandering in darkness.



Funny I never tried that before... music, sound effects and roleplaying is usually my thing... I never once tried the obvious lol 'duh'.

This brings me to another interesting idea though. For dungeons, we always utilize the dungeon tiles, I could put something like lego pieces and then flash a flashlight into it, that should (in theory) give off shadows on the tiles... it may help 'visualize'.
The idea didn't occur to me naturally -- the power went out one night!   What was lucky is that the party had just descended into a haunted bolthole, filled with wraiths.  No lights and some 'whispering' noises from yours truly and it freaked everyone out pretty well, and it's a trick I've used ever since.

Back to the point though, I think that darkness/illumination is ineffective in a lot of games only because DMs/players gloss over it (whether because they've not seen a way to make it important, or find it too cumbersome to deal with.)
Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.


I like that.  The rule could be:

Darkvision: It requires an action to activate or deactivate darkvision, which allows you to see in total darkness (but not magical darkness) up to a distance of 60' as if it were bright light. However, any creature with darkvision active is blinded while standing in an area of bright light, unless they extinguish the light source, leave the area of bright light, or use an action to deactivate the darkvision.

Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.


I like that.  The rule could be:

Darkvision: It requires an action to activate or deactivate darkvision, which allows you to see in total darkness (but not magical darkness) up to a distance of 60' as if it were bright light. However, any creature with darkvision active is blinded while standing in an area of bright light, unless they extinguish the light source, leave the area of bright light, or use an action to deactivate the darkvision.



If nothing else, it reinforces the trope of the party's scout walking ahead of the party (in this case, so the torch doesn't affect their nightvision).

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Back to the point though, I think that darkness/illumination is ineffective in a lot of games only because DMs/players gloss over it (whether because they've not seen a way to make it important, or find it too cumbersome to deal with.)



It's hard to manage as a DM when you have mixed party with some that have infravision and some that don't.  It's a lot easier to describe what the players see and hear when the lights go out, if they go out for everyone.

This is one thing I think 4e had really right, that no class had infravision, and everyone need some sort of light source to see in the dark.  There's nothing that can quite match total darkness, with some ominous sounds, when it comes to creating terror and suspense.

There's nothing that can quite match total darkness, with some ominous sounds, when it comes to creating terror and suspense.


Very much so.  Just about all you can do with infravision is create a "cold spot" that blots it out.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.


I like that.  The rule could be:

Darkvision: It requires an action to activate or deactivate darkvision, which allows you to see in total darkness (but not magical darkness) up to a distance of 60' as if it were bright light. However, any creature with darkvision active is blinded while standing in an area of bright light, unless they extinguish the light source, leave the area of bright light, or use an action to deactivate the darkvision.



If nothing else, it reinforces the trope of the party's scout walking ahead of the party (in this case, so the torch doesn't affect their nightvision).


...And then that scout gets attacked by something, and the other party members know nothing about it. Suddenly, they realize that the scout is no longer ahead of them...
Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.


I like that.  The rule could be:

Darkvision: It requires an action to activate or deactivate darkvision, which allows you to see in total darkness (but not magical darkness) up to a distance of 60' as if it were bright light. However, any creature with darkvision active is blinded while standing in an area of bright light, unless they extinguish the light source, leave the area of bright light, or use an action to deactivate the darkvision.



If nothing else, it reinforces the trope of the party's scout walking ahead of the party (in this case, so the torch doesn't affect their nightvision).


...And then that scout gets attacked by something, and the other party members know nothing about it. Suddenly, they realize that the scout is no longer ahead of them...


As I wrote it, as long as the scout is standing in dim light, he can be seen and still has darkvision active.  The rule would force him to be about 15' away from the torchbearer, but he would be seen and he would be able to see 60 feet ahead (or about 35 feet past what folks with normal vision can see using torchlight)
Illumination's always played a huge role in my campaigns.  It's good to remember that in D&D Next, humans and halflings are about the only things (when considering all the monsters and PC races) that can't see in the dark.  Darkness is a good way for the elves/dwarves to show off, and torches/sunrods are a beacon for all the bad things.  (Especially in the large areas that some players have mentioned.)

It can be fun to turn the majority of the lights off in the gaming room when the party is wandering in darkness.


I never thought of that. Now that I think about it, that is an excellent way to make the decision to use a torch important. Maybe the next time our group explores a dungeon, they get attacked by a horde of undead that saw the torchlight, and the characters find themselves reconsidering the use of light sources.
Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.


I like that.  The rule could be:

Darkvision: It requires an action to activate or deactivate darkvision, which allows you to see in total darkness (but not magical darkness) up to a distance of 60' as if it were bright light. However, any creature with darkvision active is blinded while standing in an area of bright light, unless they extinguish the light source, leave the area of bright light, or use an action to deactivate the darkvision.



If nothing else, it reinforces the trope of the party's scout walking ahead of the party (in this case, so the torch doesn't affect their nightvision).


...And then that scout gets attacked by something, and the other party members know nothing about it. Suddenly, they realize that the scout is no longer ahead of them...


As I wrote it, as long as the scout is standing in dim light, he can be seen and still has darkvision active.  The rule would force him to be about 15' away from the torchbearer, but he would be seen and he would be able to see 60 feet ahead (or about 35 feet past what folks with normal vision can see using torchlight)


Hmm... but the scout is still vulnerable, as he is 1) leading the party, and thus is the first target in a monster attack and 2) at least 15' away from the others, who may or may not be too late to save him. I could live with him being visible, though.
but the scout is still vulnerable, as he is 1) leading the party, and thus is the first target in a monster attack and 2) at least 15' away from the others, who may or may not be too late to save him.


Sure.  but the point of him being a scout is that he'll see the monster (who would also have to have darkvision) and hopefully get initiative.  Hopefully, he can also take a hit, if worse comes to worse.  

But that at least is a real strategic choice. Expose yourself and get an extra 35' of advance warning, or stay with the party and limit your range of vision to 40' total.

Second of all, he wouldn't be 15' away from the others. if you put the torchbearer in the back,  the scout need only be three rows ahead.

5' - (rearguard in bright light)
0' - (torchbearer in bright light)
5' - (archer in bright light)
10' - (fighter in bright light)
15' - (scout in dim light)

Now they're just single-file and the scout is just barely in the dim light area of the torch.
Also, if the scout is in dim light, he can make Hide checks, right?
Also, if the scout is in dim light, he can make Hide checks, right?


I'm not sure how that works with darkvision.  Also, I think the dim light of the torch would be visible from pretty far away.  So the light itself reveals that suface people approach.
Also, if the scout is in dim light, he can make Hide checks, right?


I'm not sure how that works with darkvision.  Also, I think the dim light of the torch would be visible from pretty far away.  So the light itself reveals that suface people approach.



Yeah, I'm not sure how darkvision would invalidate the Hide checks, either.. Makes sense that they would, though: darkvision would imply that the 'dim'  light is 'normal' for them.  Not seeing any darkvision rules yet, really.
Good point about the positioning, Wrecan. Thankfully, darkvision is not yet available to PCs in D&D Next, so for now, the party's only hope is that nothing is lurking at the edge of the torchlight...
Good point about the positioning, Wrecan. Thankfully, darkvision is not yet available to PCs in D&D Next, so for now, the party's only hope is that nothing is lurking at the edge of the torchlight...



Not available?  Polymorph! That scout can be a carrion crawler!

(EDIT: Actually, polymorph says "can be any beast...." I wonder if that means the monster type 'Beast' or 'beast' as in 'in the bestiary.')
Good point about the positioning, Wrecan. Thankfully, darkvision is not yet available to PCs in D&D Next, so for now, the party's only hope is that nothing is lurking at the edge of the torchlight...



Not available?  Polymorph! That scout can be a carrion crawler!

(EDIT: Actually, polymorph says "can be any beast...." I wonder if that means the monster type 'Beast' or 'beast' as in 'in the bestiary.')


I assume it means the Beast subtype. Otherwise, you could polymorph someone into Asmodeus...
Good point about the positioning, Wrecan. Thankfully, darkvision is not yet available to PCs in D&D Next, so for now, the party's only hope is that nothing is lurking at the edge of the torchlight...



Not available?  Polymorph! That scout can be a carrion crawler!

(EDIT: Actually, polymorph says "can be any beast...." I wonder if that means the monster type 'Beast' or 'beast' as in 'in the bestiary.')


I assume it means the Beast subtype. Otherwise, you could polymorph someone into Asmodeus...



I'm with you.. but that does exclude humanoids, dragons, giants, etc.. common polymorph choices in my experience.  I'm guessing a future version of the spell will indicate more precisely what kind of creatures you could polymorph into.
I've never used light passively. That is to say, I use light when it's important in the encounter for that specific encounter, but it might be that the next one it's not so important. It ends up being inconsistent and probably more than a little haphazard but it can be fun sometimes to make people think about how they can see things.
Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.

I like that.  The rule could be:

Darkvision: It requires an action to activate or deactivate darkvision, which allows you to see in total darkness (but not magical darkness) up to a distance of 60' as if it were bright light. However, any creature with darkvision active is blinded while standing in an area of bright light, unless they extinguish the light source, leave the area of bright light, or use an action to deactivate the darkvision.

I like this "darkvision toggle" idea.  It could make darkvision a viable feature for PC races.  It also makes darkvision fundamentally different from low-light vision, rather than just a better version thereof.  I think I may want to use this as a houserule even if such a thing doesn't make it into the official rules.

Plus it would be interesting to have creatures with darkvision that was "always on," who were blinded in bright light, or a least had disadvantage, if blinded seems too harsh; a "greater" and "lesser" light sensitivity, unified with the darkvision mechanic.

"I want 'punch magic in the face' to be a maneuver." -- wrecan

heh Just looked over that thing again. I've always played that light sources spoil darkvision and low-light wasn't, which placed them firmly in their own niches.


I wasn't aware that there were no rules for it.

Plus it would be interesting to have creatures with darkvision that was "always on," who were blinded in bright light, or a least had disadvantage, if blinded seems too harsh; a "greater" and "lesser" light sensitivity, unified with the darkvision mechanic.


We might intorduce the following optional rules:

Primary Darkvision: These creatures dwell primarily in darkness and they do not have the capacity to switch to normal or low-light vision. This creature can see in darkness and dim light up to 60 feet away.  When in bright light, the creature suffers from disadvantage on all attacks.

Acclimation: A creature with primary darkvision who is forced into a daylit environment can, over time, acclimate to the brightness of its new environment. After sufficient time to acclimate (usually a few weeks), the primary darkvision becomes standard darkvision and gains low-light vision as a secondary vision type.   Similarly a creature with standard darkvision who spends more than a few weeks in an environment without any natural light (such as the Underdark), may lose their surface vision and gain primary darkvision.
Who else is glad the term "shadowy illumination" died in a fire?
Good point about the positioning, Wrecan. Thankfully, darkvision is not yet available to PCs in D&D Next, so for now, the party's only hope is that nothing is lurking at the edge of the torchlight...



Not available?  Polymorph! That scout can be a carrion crawler!

(EDIT: Actually, polymorph says "can be any beast...." I wonder if that means the monster type 'Beast' or 'beast' as in 'in the bestiary.')


I assume it means the Beast subtype. Otherwise, you could polymorph someone into Asmodeus...



I'm with you.. but that does exclude humanoids, dragons, giants, etc.. common polymorph choices in my experience.  I'm guessing a future version of the spell will indicate more precisely what kind of creatures you could polymorph into.


Actually, one of the earlier packets did have polymorph specify a few monsters, and the stats granted by turning into such a monster.
Darkvision is perhaps one of the most under-rated racial abilities.

Quite frankly, any race without darkvision is totally imbalanced against races with darkvision.

If the DM plays intelligent darkvision adversaries intelligently (think drow, etc.), they can really wreck a party of that has no darkvision.  All they need to do is put out a torch, or grab the wizards glow stick and throw a bag over it, and bam, the party is in REALLY bad shape all of a sudden.
Darkvision is perhaps one of the most under-rated racial abilities.

Quite frankly, any race without darkvision is totally imbalanced against races with darkvision.

If the DM plays intelligent darkvision adversaries intelligently (think drow, etc.), they can really wreck a party of that has no darkvision.  All they need to do is put out a torch, or grab the wizards glow stick and throw a bag over it, and bam, the party is in REALLY bad shape all of a sudden.



Yep.  I even extend this argument to the 30' low-light vision (especially when considering whether humans are overpowered, which seems to be a consensus, one with which I don't agree!)



Darkvision is perhaps one of the most under-rated racial abilities.

Quite frankly, any race without darkvision is totally imbalanced against races with darkvision.

If the DM plays intelligent darkvision adversaries intelligently (think drow, etc.), they can really wreck a party of that has no darkvision.  All they need to do is put out a torch, or grab the wizards glow stick and throw a bag over it, and bam, the party is in REALLY bad shape all of a sudden.



Yep.  I even extend this argument to the 30' low-light vision (especially when considering whether humans are overpowered, which seems to be a consensus, one with which I don't agree!)






I think the 30' low light vision as it works in Next is kind of corny.  I need light to see, but I can kind of see with no light.  I'd much sooner they just went back to the 4e design, where all low light did was make dim into normal, and if there was no light, you still couldn't see at all.

It's a lot easier DM when everyone in the party can see or not see under the same conditions.

Darkvision is perhaps one of the most under-rated racial abilities.

Quite frankly, any race without darkvision is totally imbalanced against races with darkvision.

If the DM plays intelligent darkvision adversaries intelligently (think drow, etc.), they can really wreck a party of that has no darkvision.  All they need to do is put out a torch, or grab the wizards glow stick and throw a bag over it, and bam, the party is in REALLY bad shape all of a sudden.



Yep.  I even extend this argument to the 30' low-light vision (especially when considering whether humans are overpowered, which seems to be a consensus, one with which I don't agree!)






I think the 30' low light vision as it works in Next is kind of corny.  I need light to see, but I can kind of see with no light.  I'd much sooner they just went back to the 4e design, where all low light did was make dim into normal, and if there was no light, you still couldn't see at all.

It's a lot easier DM when everyone in the party can see or not see under the same conditions.




I kind of like this version just because it lets an elven rogue (as an example) do roguey-stuff in pitch blackness.  Anything that lets the characters WANT to take more risky actions makes my job as DM more fun

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I kind of like this version just because it lets an elven rogue (as an example) do roguey-stuff in pitch blackness.  Anything that lets the characters WANT to take more risky actions makes my job as DM more fun




Roguery is where it's a huge racial advantage.  Being able to sneak around in the dark, without bumping into stuff, is an enormous advantage.

Take this scenario:

Rogue sneaking through the pitch dark jailer's room, trying to steal his keys.

With some sort of darkvision (whether it be true darkvision, or Next style semi dark vision), you can actually pull this off.

If you're a human, you might as well go home.  If you turn on a light so you can see, you'll alert the jailer, and if you just bumble around in the dark, you're probably going to alert him as well.

On the topic of intelligent darkvision monsters: what about a group of kobolds that have rigged a trap to drop a bucket of water on their enemies once they pass a certain point in the entrance tunnel? The water would put out any torches, and the spell light doesn't spread far enough that the kobolds couldn't stand back and fire sling bullets. Suddenly, those little nuisances are deadly...

Half Cover provides a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex saving throws. Dim Light should provide simply a +2 bonus to AC against creatures who do not have low light vision or darkvision (or other means of detection beyond sight).

I'm okay with this for ranged attacks, but melee shouldn't necessarily be affected. This type of ruling should only be in effect when the light is different between attacker and target; otherwise, it just adds more, unnecessary, condition/modifier tracking to deal with.

Exposure to light (IRL) ruins your nightvision for a period of time.

 
I like that.  The rule could be:

Darkvision: It requires an action to activate or deactivate darkvision, which allows you to see in total darkness (but not magical darkness) up to a distance of 60' as if it were bright light. However, any creature with darkvision active is blinded while standing in an area of bright light, unless they extinguish the light source, leave the area of bright light, or use an action to deactivate the darkvision.


Primary Darkvision: These creatures dwell primarily in darkness and they do not have the capacity to switch to normal or low-light vision. This creature can see in darkness and dim light up to 60 feet away.  When in bright light, the creature suffers from disadvantage on all attacks.

Acclimation: A creature with primary darkvision who is forced into a daylit environment can, over time, acclimate to the brightness of its new environment. After sufficient time to acclimate (usually a few weeks), the primary darkvision becomes standard darkvision and gains low-light vision as a secondary vision type.   Similarly a creature with standard darkvision who spends more than a few weeks in an environment without any natural light (such as the Underdark), may lose their surface vision and gain primary darkvision.

I like the Acclimation idea. I like it better than you're previous suggestion of an on/off trigger for Darkvision. I would rather see a short-term acclimation for regular Darkvision, when changing between lighting conditions.

If nothing else, it reinforces the trope of the party's scout walking ahead of the party (in this case, so the torch doesn't affect their nightvision).


...And then that scout gets attacked by something, and the other party members know nothing about it. Suddenly, they realize that the scout is no longer ahead of them...


As I wrote it, as long as the scout is standing in dim light, he can be seen and still has darkvision active.  The rule would force him to be about 15' away from the torchbearer, but he would be seen and he would be able to see 60 feet ahead (or about 35 feet past what folks with normal vision can see using torchlight)

Shouldn't the scout have to be at least 20' in front (not 15'), since the Bright Light radius is 20'?

Sign In to post comments