Rampage: A new way to play Magic

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I've been working with some new ways to play Magic, and I think I've found one that is pretty fun.

Requirements: Each player's deck must contain 35 cards.

How each game starts: Each player begins the game with 100 life (I chose this number because I don't think that many people will be able to make their opponent lose 100 life in 5 turns), and begins the game with 5 basic lands of their choosing on the battlefield untapped.

How the game actually works: Each player draws their initial hand of seven cards, then mulligans if they want, and then the game begins.  Both players play five regular turns (as if they were playing a regular game, so they can play additional basic lands).  At the end of each player having 5 turns, the player with the highest life total wins the game.  However, no win conditions can alter the game (meaning cards that say "you win the game", "opponent loses the game", etc do not apply to who wins or loses the game).


In the event of a draw at the end of the final 5th turn, both players play a sixth turn in order to decide who has won.  If the game is still a draw after the sixth turn, the game results in a draw.     

Feedback would be great. I wanted to make a game that was really fast, and allowed for alot of different types of strategies.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but I didn't see anywhere to post ideas for game modes.    
Do the 5 basic lands count among the 35, or are they external to it (so that the deck size is really 40)?

Either way, starting the game with 5 free mana and a reduced deck size means there are several loops you can run regardless of the opponent's life total, wtih frightening consistency, and on turn 1 no less...who needs the other 4 turns?
Do the 5 basic lands count among the 35, or are they external to it (so that the deck size is really 40)?

Either way, starting the game with 5 free mana and a reduced deck size means there are several loops you can run regardless of the opponent's life total, wtih frightening consistency, and on turn 1 no less...who needs the other 4 turns?

No, the 5 lands don't count in your deck, they are on the field before each player draws their initial hand, and I probably should have put this in the OP, but its an honorary rule that neither player uses loops.
I suggest you codify the 'honorary rules' because leaving them unstated will just cause people to try to break the format.

If first player is playing discard, the game's often over before it begins.  If I start with Mind Twist for 4, or two Hymn to Tourach, or the dreaded "use some effect to discard Nicol Bolas then shallow Grave him".


Or, like, Stasis.  Oh, your lands started tapped?  Let's have them stay that way.  Stasis, Root Maze, go.
35 card decks, and you start with 5 lands/domain? That's just gonna be discard vs combo.

I mean, thoughtseize to check out what the other guy is on, manamorph, slaughter games, go vs ... well, at 35 cards and all that land... It's not so much a case of a specific combo being a problem as all of them being a problem. Realmwright, high tide, cloud of fairies, do something with 8 mana and win seems like the most fun option, it'd just get stupid from there.
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
Wait, crap, of their choosing? That's rather worse. In that case we're looking at... Ugh. Yeah, high tide and discard would wreck the world.

So, high tide, cloud, impulse... Win. Somehow.
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
Thanks for pointing out some of the holes guys.  This was just sort of an idea that I had, and that I'm trying to make into a workable model.  The OP was just giving  overview of how the game is supposed to go.

I will look at the replies and see what I can change to make the gamemode playable.

For the idea though, do you guys like the general idea of starting with a mana base, and having 5 turns to work with it? The idea was I wanted to keep the game fast, and really make people play aggressively either with creatures or forcing opponents to get rid of stuff (hence the title Rampage). I'm also toying with the idea of only allowing creatures and lands to be played, no enchantments, sorceries, equipment, or instants.
Right away, I'm calling for a change of the name. Rampage is just confusing, since there's already a Magic term eixstign in the game, on old cards such as craw giant, gorilla berserkers, teeka's dragon, etc. I have a Rampage themed deck even.

But from what I see, it's just going to be Discard or Combo every time.

I find signatures incredibly distracting. If you read this, then you too have found them distracting. 

Right away, I'm calling for a change of the name. Rampage is just confusing, since there's already a Magic term eixstign in the game, on old cards such as craw giant, gorilla berserkers, teeka's dragon, etc. I have a Rampage themed deck even.

But from what I see, it's just going to be Discard or Combo every time.



Which is hilarious because it appears his intended goal is accelarated aggro.
5 mana is just about the critical mass where power curves can take off almost vertically, meaning a lot can happen on turn 1, and especially by turn 2 after summoning sickness wears off. Any turns after that are basically going to be irrelevant.

Also, in a creatures-only format, you claim you want to aim for "forcing opponents to get rid of stuff"...but how limited are the tools available with which they can even do such a thing? There are a few Nekrataal variants which pretty much lock you into black (and give the opponent incentive to focus on heavy black too), and a few "CIP damage" creatures which probably won't do enough against opposing creatures that may well start at 5- or 6-drops.

Of course, turn 1 Realm Razer is always a possibility, which really cuts into what you might be planning to do in a 5-turn window. There are ways around it, but that demands a significant chunk of deck space has to be devoted to such a thing.

In fact, here's something you can do in a single turn, even with a creatures-only restriction:
Turn 1: Tap the starting 5 lands (one of each type) for Bloodthrone Vampire, Cephalid Illusionist, and Nomads en-Kor. In a 35-card deck, this start isn't all that unfeasible.
Repeatedly target Cephalid Illusionist with the ability from Nomads. You'll mill 3 cards each time, and there are two things of interest you might mill:
-Narcomoeba - This will jump into the battlefield, where you immediately sacrifice it to the Blodthrone Vampire for +2/+2 to put it back in the graveyard.
-Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - This shuffles your entire graveyard back in, allowing you to repeat this process.
Keep milling and reshuffling until Bloodthrone Vampire is as big as you like, then mill down to Anger (and if necessary, Wonder or Brawn in case of blockers) and swing. This brings back shades of the Four Horsemen "nondeterministic loop" problem, but only in the final section; the deck size is smaller so it should resolve faster anyway, and you can always play 4 Angers and 1 Ulamog (along with a Phantasmagorian or two) to maximize your chances of getting to a quick end.

A full deck would probably go something like this:
4 Nomads en-Kor
4 Cephalid Illusionist
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
4 Faerie Macabre (can exile our own Ulamogs if we need to make the loop deterministic, and helps against the mirror match)
4 Ghost-Lit Raider (control against turn-1 goldfishing)
4 Ghost-Lit Warder (more control)
3 Street Wraith (32 card deck? sure why not)
2 Phantasmagorian (in case something gets stuck in hand)
2 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Narcomoeba
1 Anger
1 Wonder
1 Brawn

rampage

And why yes, that is a lousy ability. Why do you ask?
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
rampage

And why yes, that is a lousy ability. Why do you ask?



It was a lot of fun to use back in the day, but too slow compared to newer abilities. You have to use something like lure or nemesis mask for it to really work, because there's no way your opponent is purposely going to block a Rampager with multiple creatures, unless they have a front lines of fatties.

I had a fun combo for casual that used varchild's war-riders and lure on bigger Rampagers, forcing the opponent to use all the survivior tokens to block each time. I had a creature's P/T up in the lower hundreds once in a particularly long game.

I find signatures incredibly distracting. If you read this, then you too have found them distracting. 

Rampage basically depends on your opponent gangblocking you when your opponent has neither first strike nor banding, nor creatures with power and toughness greater than the rampage value.

It goes form useless to meh with Lure.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
In early rules (including those in effect when Legends was printed), a creature with Trample only had to deal lethal damage to ONE of its blockers to assign the rest of its damage to the player behind.  So a Lured, Rampaging, Trampling creature could hit for a whole lot of trample damage.

Rampage was still usually overcosted, though, especially when in isolation it was so useless.  They really only started to get the meal deal together with Gorilla Berserkers.
In early rules (including those in effect when Legends was printed), a creature with Trample only had to deal lethal damage to ONE of its blockers to assign the rest of its damage to the player behind.  So a Lured, Rampaging, Trampling creature could hit for a whole lot of trample damage.

Rampage was still usually overcosted, though, especially when in isolation it was so useless.  They really only started to get the meal deal together with Gorilla Berserkers.



Yeah, the assumption of rampage was that players will gangblock every time. While gangblocking allows for card advantage, most people only block things that either 1) they can kill, or 2) can kill them, like, on this turn.

I would assume that Lure would be better if we saw it more, though.

@Mata_Hari:
Your posts smell like spam.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
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I've been working with some new ways to play Magic, and I think I've found one that is pretty fun.

Requirements: Each player's deck must contain 35 cards.

How each game starts: Each player begins the game with 100 life (I chose this number because I don't think that many people will be able to make their opponent lose 100 life in 5 turns), and begins the game with 5 basic lands of their choosing on the battlefield untapped.

How the game actually works: Each player draws their initial hand of seven cards, then mulligans if they want, and then the game begins.  Both players play five regular turns (as if they were playing a regular game, so they can play additional basic lands).  At the end of each player having 5 turns, the player with the highest life total wins the game.  However, no win conditions can alter the game (meaning cards that say "you win the game", "opponent loses the game", etc do not apply to who wins or loses the game).


In the event of a draw at the end of the final 5th turn, both players play a sixth turn in order to decide who has won.  If the game is still a draw after the sixth turn, the game results in a draw.     

Feedback would be great. I wanted to make a game that was really fast, and allowed for alot of different types of strategies.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but I didn't see anywhere to post ideas for game modes.    


Thanks for pointing out some of the holes guys.  This was just sort of an idea that I had, and that I'm trying to make into a workable model.  The OP was just giving  overview of how the game is supposed to go.

I will look at the replies and see what I can change to make the gamemode playable.

For the idea though, do you guys like the general idea of starting with a mana base, and having 5 turns to work with it? The idea was I wanted to keep the game fast, and really make people play aggressively either with creatures or forcing opponents to get rid of stuff (hence the title Rampage). I'm also toying with the idea of only allowing creatures and lands to be played, no enchantments, sorceries, equipment, or instants.



This entire idea really feels like how a really new/casual player might see things.

The assumption here seems to be that the first few turns are wasted trying to get land, which just isnt true at all.  It sounds like the result of new players playing with poorly tuned decks.

The way lands work is integral to the balance of the game.  Any format that tries to change this is going to require so much time balancing that you might as well make a completely new game.

Removing all non-creature spells pretty much is making a totally different game, a really dull and boring one with very little depth.

Current decks
Comments or suggestions are always welcome

Modern
nothing at the moment