Just a couple quick questions.

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Sorry if any of this comes across as noobish but here it goes:

1:Undying plus Contagion Engine and Contagion Clasp. Would it work?

2:If Flayer of the Hatebound were to enter the battle field at the same time as.... Flayer of the Hatebound, would both abilities activate, or neither? Same thought with Angel of Glory's Rise and Champion of the Parish . If I were to return a Champion, with the Angels effect, to the field along with a  bunch of humans, would the Champions effect trigger? Or would it not due to the fact it's they are all coming into play at the same time?

3: This is a bit unrelated. Does any one have any good idea's for Jedit Ojanen of Efrava? I thought about running him in a GW with Kemba, Kha Regent, and Ajani, Caller of the Pride. I was wanting to run a cat tribal, so any good cats (both for the curve and the mid/long game is welcome).


You can answer (and please do) any of these you wish, and you will have my thanks.
1 Putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature that has +1/+1 counters (or the opposite) will actually remove both counters. Exact rule is when there are both types of counters on a creature there's a state based action that removes X of each of those where X is the smallest amount of counters of each type.
2 They don't activate: they are TRIGGERED abilities. And YES, they DO trigger. Because as soon as the permanents enter the battlefield, the game checks if something should trigger, and it sees it.
3 What about creature boosts?

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

1) To remove the +1/+1 counter by annihilating it with a -1/-1 counter, yes. Proliferating either counter afterwards can only be done for the remaining type of counter.

2) Both Flayers will trigger, yes. Yes, the Champion will trigger for all other humans entering the battlefield at the same time as himself.

3) Not a rules question, try asking in Cards and Combos.
1 Putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature that has +1/+1 counters (or the opposite) will actually remove both counters. Exact rule is when there are both types of counters on a creature there's a state based action that removes X of each of those where X is the smallest amount of counters of each type.
2 They don't activate: they are TRIGGERED abilities. And YES, they DO trigger. Because as soon as the permanents enter the battlefield, the game checks if something should trigger, and it sees it.
3 What about creature boosts?



Thanks for clearing those first to up for me! Now all I need to do is find more Clasps, and there is a Lorwyn (I know it's from that block, but maybe not that "set") card that can move -1/-1 counters around if a creature with them dies. It's in a different thread, so I'll just dig it up.

And, no I hadn't thought about creature boosts, what did you have in mind?



3) Not a rules question, try asking in Cards and Combos.



Could I make a new thread in the C&C thread for number three? I know in other forums I frequent, the mods look down upon the same question being asked by one person in multiple threads. I had a similar question about double/triple posts, and thread necros, if you don't mind my asking here.

Now all I need to do is find more Clasps, and there is a Lorwyn (I know it's from that block, but maybe not that "set") card that can move -1/-1 counters around if a creature with them dies. It's in a different thread, so I'll just dig it up.






Woeleecher, and Quillspike come to mind, or just do a search for "move" + "-1/-1" in the text field on gatherer


The best I have found so far is Blowfly Infestation. That way I can (I hope) have an undying's -1/-1 counter move back on to it as it re-enters the battlefield.
Blowfly Infestation will only trigger if your creature with undying had the -1/-1 counter as it was put into the graveyard.

The vast majority of the time, a creature with a +1/+1 and -1/-1 counter on it at the same time will have both of those counters removed from it as a state-based action:

704.5r If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1
counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters
on it.



 Also, the triggered ability of Blowly Infestation targets.  So, even if your undying creature does go to the graveyard with a -1/-1 counter, it won't return to the battlefield in time to be the target of Blowfly Infestation's ability: remember, targets for a spell/ability are selected when that spell/ability is put on the stack.  Blowfly Infestation's ability goes on the stack while the creature that triggered it is still in the graveyard, so it can't target that same creature, even if it would come back before Blowfly Infestation's trigger resolves.
Ah shucks. Well at least I know before I got buy a play set. Might still pick up one or two of them.

Honestly the stack can still be a bit confusing to me sometimes, which can make for so confusing games. When I used to play I was taught by someone who kinda made up there own rules, and the same person "taught" my entire old play group, we didn't know any better, and we all had  *whispers* dial-up, so looking up rules could take hours and was no fun. I just recently started playing correctly thanks to my room mate (who saw my old card collection and helped me make a few running decks) who went though and actually taught me the rules. But being as I don't play blue, and he only does for mill, we don't encounter much stack related issues. So forgive me for any stupid questions, but the large majority of my rules questions will most likely be about the stack.
Ah shucks. Well at least I know before I got buy a play set. Might still pick up one or two of them.

Honestly the stack can still be a bit confusing to me sometimes, which can make for so confusing games. When I used to play I was taught by someone who kinda made up there own rules, and the same person "taught" my entire old play group, we didn't know any better, and we all had  *whispers* dial-up, so looking up rules could take hours and was no fun. I just recently started playing correctly thanks to my room mate (who saw my old card collection and helped me make a few running decks) who went though and actually taught me the rules. But being as I don't play blue, and he only does for mill, we don't encounter much stack related issues. So forgive me for any stupid questions, but the large majority of my rules questions will most likely be about the stack.



Even under the old rules before the stack was clearly defined, it was always first in last out when spells were played.

So really there was always a stack, it was just never defined as one.

You played a spell and than other players responded, responses were resolved in reverse order

If anything the old way made it even more complicated due to varying speeds of spells (interupt, instant, sorcery, etc), speeds no longer matter, only the order does and the "stack" just makes a more formal version of "first in last out" with spells resolving in the reverse order of how they were announced

The main changes are that all effects are done at resolution of the spell within the stack. Old rules had some effects held until the end and done together. And of course the player being able to lose as soon as you hit 0 life any time (even within the stack), where as old rules allowed you to finish a phase (and possibly heal)