Wandering Monsters: Changing Shape

Lycantrope:

Needs more werelions, wereeagles, and weremonkeys.

Also D&D werestuff are mortal. They die from damage. The original cursed lycantrope might be the one who can only be killed by silver. Depending on what "Medium level" is, "Slain only by Silver" might be too powerful.

Doppelganger:

Seems spot on. Except the description is a little too much on the evil side. Change it. I'm a stickler for stuff not matching.

EDIT: Also does anyone else always imagine the Chameleon from the Spiderman cartoons when they imagine doppelgangers?
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Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Yeah, I recognize them as D&D lycanthropes and doppelgangers. Spot on!

Yan
Montréal, Canada
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I do think that the archtypical Werewolf vulnerability to Silver could be handled better than it's been in the past. In 3.5, Werewolves don't really feel vulnerable to Silver, because they're equally vulnerable to fireballs and, even with thier Iron Will feat, spells that target Will. It's less that Werewolves are specifically vulnerable to Silver and more that they're specifically resilient agaisnt, of all the myriad things an adventuring party might have access to, non-silvered weapons. Werewolves are supposed to be hard to stop if you don't have silver, more than hard to stop if you don't have silver or literally any offensive magic available. I don't think spellcasters should be out cold against Werewolves, of course, but I think that things should be set up so that werewolves are just really tough in general, but if you have silvered weapons available, then you've really got them. (Or specifically anti-shapeshifter weapons and magic.) It's a really tricky thing to work out, I think.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
* Arenow doppelgangers and changeling from Eberron two different races or subraces? 

* I don´t like weresharks (nor werecocodriles too much).. but I love almost all werebeasts: werelions (and other felines), werehyenas, werejackals, wereravens, werebats, wereserpents..

I feel curiosity about a werehyena gnoll or un wereserpent yuan-ti.

What about the female werefox?

* I miss the other lycantrhopes, the manwolf and the loup-garou. They can interesting antagonists of shifters PCs (predators fighting for hunting zones, a classic one). 

* I suggest a remake+retcon of warnden class, the skin-walker or nahual, like druid but more shapeshifter that spellcaster. 

* Sometimes I imagine lycantropy curse like slave hitman, like fantasy version of the manga character "the crying freeman", possesed by a feral spirit and forced to kill some enemies of curse-caster because if he doesn´t it the curse would be activated to kill loved beings. 

A secondary effect of curse would need eat sentient creature (humanoid o fay) flesh or undead vitae.. (vampire blood, ghoul brain or wraith ectoplasm for example). 
 
* I had thought about curse like modular power. One would only a sickness like rage, it could be healed by ordinary means... but it could replaced (like adding a template) by the classic curse.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

I think the alignments are a bit off, IMO. I never got that werewolves are chaotic, considering they are solidly pack animals. I'd say werewolves are lawful evil, and rats are chaotic evil, if alignments are needed at all (I'm not convinced they are needed).

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It sounds like they need to pick a theory and stick with it. Either it is a curse or a blessing, but trying to have it both ways gets stupid. I realize this is a bit of a problem because they don't fall into a single neat bin culturally and people want it both ways in the game. I would suggest breaking it into two different ways of getting the same effect. For those that inherit lycanthropy or otherwise voluntarily gain it, it is a somewhat difficult to control blessing, for those infected by the cursed form it is never really controllable affliction.

I would also like to see some interesting rules for dealing with lycanthropy when a PC is infected, but for that to work it has to be setup so that it isn't always a problem. Having more then one form of lycanthropy would work very well here. Maybe there is one particular highly infectious form that requires some complex ritual and treatment to cure but is a very rare form. That insures the curing the infection doesn't randomly derail another adventure when a PC gets bitten. The common inherited or curse forms are either non-infectious or can be easily cured with magic.

As for the specific descriptions, they look fine and that looks like a good starting subset of the wide range of exotic shape sifters that D&D has had over the years. It has the big two, wererats and werewolves, along with a couple of other well known but distinctly different types.

The doppelganger is OK, but the threat level is far too low for a version that has both mind reading and near perfect duplication. It may not be a huge threat in combat, but they have always been more of a threat out of combat anyway. Doppelgangers probably need something like Threat: High (low in combat).

You could replace the aligment by the allegiance system, or changing the definition of chaos-lawful axis.

For me caothic is the behavior with people of different allegiance. A barbarian could be totally lawful for his tribue and totally caothic for the foreigners, a monk could be totally disciplinated and loyal to his monastery but chaotic behavior (like the legendary Monkey King from "Journey to the West").

* About the silver vulnerality there is a historical reason, the real beast of Gévaudan (the closest one to a werewolf in the real world) was killed by Jean Chastel, with a silver bullet made from a medal representing Virgin Mary and blessed by a priest.

Some terianthropes could be hurt by blessed weapons or divine magic.

I suggest special monster abilities could easily replaced by a modular system of creation of monster, and damage resistance and invulneralities could be changed with the right adjust of XPs value. 

* Luparii could be the name of a wolf-hunter hunter or threriantrope slayer.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

I think the alignments are a bit off, IMO. I never got that werewolves are chaotic, considering they are solidly pack animals. I'd say werewolves are lawful evil, and rats are chaotic evil, if alignments are needed at all (I'm not convinced they are needed).


The alignments of the lycanthropes has nothing to do with their animal side, but everything how they are depicted in their more popular source material at the time of D&D creation. Werewolves in European myths were depicted as bloodthirsty monsters with no control over their animal urges. Werebears came from the Hobbit were their leader is friendly and aided the dwarves and Bilbo. Wererats is likely a D&D creation, but they have always been depicted as organized thieves and murderers who infiltrate and control the thieves' guilds from the seres of a city.

Personally I have always disliked the whole alignment part inherent to lycanthropes in the D&D universe and not just because of any modern trend to depict both werewolves and vampires in a more positive light. There are many ancient myths of shapeshifters in which they are not particularly evil, mostly they are neutral spiritual beings who are friendly towards humans who treat them with respect and very hostile to those who treat them or their environment with disrespect. So I am more inclined to stick to neutral natural/spiritual lycanthropes and evil with the cursed ones.

As for silver, I agree that in 3e and especially 4e they have made it way too easy to ignore the silver weapon requirement. Granted, it prevents people from the constant need to switch weapons. Still, I doubt that complete immunity to non-silver weapons is too extreme as well.

In regards to the doppleganger, either make them evil and stick to the description or change the description. It is not that I mind them as a force of evil. I don't care either way. It is just that right now the description seems really evil ;)
I think the lycanthropes are great.  My only concern is that they have made the creature a little too confusing.   They need to bring back the concept of True lycanthropes.  

"Only infected lycanthropes can be cured. To a true lycanthrope, lycanthropy is as natural as breathing, and the condition cannot be altered. True lycanthropes have complete control over their physical states; they are not affected by darkness, phases of the moon, or any of the other situations which traditionally affect infected lycanthropes."


2e had a nice little section in the MM under the general entry for lycanthrope for designing your own types of lycanthropes.

Show


Designing New Types of Lycanthrope
Described here is a process for creating variant lycanthropes, either as true lycanthropes, one-shot opponents, or for the results of a curse of lycanthropy.

Animal Type: Virtually any predator between the size of a small dog and a large bear can be the basis for a type of lycanthrope. Most (but not all) true lycanthropes are mammals; most (but not all) are carnivores. An animal type used by the DM to create a race of true lycanthropes should be a carnivorous mammal with animal Intelligence (1), or rarely, a reptile, bird, or even fish with animal Intelligence. There has never been a reliable report of a were-amphibian of any type.
Induced lycanthropes, by spell or item, can be created using a wide variety of animal types, and even monstrous creatures.

Appearance: In humanoid form, the lycanthrope has subtle indications of the curse, ranging from hair color like that of the animal, to general facial type, to voice and actions. In animal form, the lycanthrope resembles a large version of the normal animal (but not so large as to be immediately noticeable). On close inspection, the animal form’s eyes show a faint spark of unnatural intelligence, and often glow red in the dark.

The lycanthrope may also have a third form, part human and part animal. This form is usually humanoid in general shape, and the body has the same covering as the animal (usually fur, sometimes scales or feathers). Facial features and body shape change somewhat, gaining more characteristics of the animal (fangs, whiskers, claws, animal leg structure, etc.).
Statistics and Attributes: To determine the new lycanthrope’s statistics, extrapolate from those of the base animal and from existing lycanthrope types. If the base animal is more powerful than a wolf, the new lycanthrope should have more Hit Dice than a werewolf; if the base animal is similar to a giant rat, the new werecreature should have about the same Hit Dice as a wererat. In almost every case, the new lycanthrope should have at least 1-2 Hit Dice more than the base animal.
The lycanthrope gets the same attack forms as the base animal type, such as claws, bite, tail slap, head butt, or whatever. The damage should be very similar to that caused by the base animal. Many lycanthropes associate with animals of their base type, and the werebeast should be able to dominate such a group.
Armor Class depends on the base animal’s natural toughness, speed, and dexterity. The lycanthrope should have a slightly better AC than the base animal, perhaps by 1 or 2 places. Movement rate should be the same as that of the base animal, as should diet and habitat. Morale should be about one category better than that of the base animal.

The creature’s alignment tends to be an extrapolated version of the base animal’s alignment. Since most base animals are neutral, the DM must look at the animal’s tendencies. If the animal is a vicious predator and a strong fighter, the lycanthropic version is probably evil; it tries to stay out of the way of other creatures, it may be good or neutral. If the animal is very independent, the lycanthrope should be chaotic; if the animal is very methodical and has regular habits, the lycanthrope is probably lawful.

True lycanthropes share a vulnerability to silver weapons, possibly because of the metal’s mystical relationship with the moon, or the inherent qualities or powers of the metal itself. Extremely rare variants might have no such vulnerability, but instead may have developed a weakness for another precious metal (gold and copper being the most likely), or perhaps for bronze, obsidian, or even wood.

Vulnerability: Special Abilities: In addition to their abilities of shapeshifting, calling normal animals to their aid, and so forth, some lycanthropes have other special powers. These should not be rolled randomly for a new lycanthrope type, but chosen to fit with the attitude and style of the base animal. A few samples are listed below.



  • Thief skills, level 1-6

  • Charm person by gaze or voice

  • Regeneration (except for damage from silver weapons)

  • Wizard spells, casting level 1-6

  • Cause fear

  • Psionicist abilities, level 1-6

  • Cast sleep, once per day

  • Poison



Were-animals looks good for a starting point.  The selection is good and covers the most common types for the first MM, and can easily be expanded for future MMs.  I'm actually glad to see they are including things like were-lions and were-sharks up front, as they are interesting variants that don't (in my experience) see as much play as they could.

To be honest, I think the current "slain by silver" rule works just fine - unless the terminal dmage is done by a silvered weapon, the were-beast won't drop below 1HP.  Kind of like how a troll keeps regenerating unless it takes terminal damage from fire or acid.  This makes it possible for the party to defeat a werebeast to the point of subdual, but without a silvered weapon, they can't kill it altogether.  That feel consistent with D&D Past as well as established lore.

I'm also assuming the rules for a lycranthropy-infected PC will come at some point eventually, along with other diseases like mummy rot etc.  I don't see that in the current playtest packet, although they are referenced in the bestiary.  (maybe I'm just missing it).

The doppelganger is OK, but the threat level is far too low for a version that has both mind reading and near perfect duplication. It may not be a huge threat in combat, but they have always been more of a threat out of combat anyway. Doppelgangers probably need something like Threat: High (low in combat).



That was my thought exactly.  After reading the description, I was thinking "how is this not the ultimate bad guy?!  wow, what level are they?"  When I saw Low, I was really baffled...

Ed Greenwood posted an article not too long ago about changelings as PC patrons, which I thought was an interesting idea.  Basically, it's one changeling who hires the PCs under different guises to do various things.  It's a win-win situation, where the changeling gets rich through the PCs actions, and in return he helps them out "behind the scenes" by using his personalities to make their jobs easier (i.e. impersonates a servant at the manor to unlock the back gate for the PCs quick get-away).  I think we often think of changelings as bad guys, but I was glad to see them listed as "neutral" since they can just as easily be good guys.

I would like ask a question about dopplegangers:



What if a female dopleganger use her powers to seduce the heir prince? Or she is created by wizard guild to be the gift to the sultan, the perfect concubine.

Can doppleganger be discovered by divine magic?

 

 The dopplegangers have got a great potential to conquer empires...don´t you believe it? I think only clerics and other divine spellcaster have avoid their secret invasion.

 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 


Oh. My. God. This image is perfect. Please tell me its source. I love it.

female dopleganger

I don't think that there is any such thing, at least not in any way worth discussing. Doppelgangers are shape-shifters of such proficiency that it only makes sense for their "true form" to be of either all possible sexes simultaniously or no sex at all, depending on how you look at it. A female doppelganger is also a male doppelganger and also an intersex doppelgander and also a sexless doppelganger. If somebody asked a doppelganger candidly about what their "true" sex was, I can only imagine that it would respond with "Whatever I want it to be, if I even want one at all.".

Anyway, continuing into the realm of the silly, I love this clip from Robot Chicken about Werewolves and Silver Bullets. I must warn that it is vulgar, but it seems very appropriate as a demonstration of how silly things get get if we assume Werewolves can only be killed by silver:

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
female dopleganger

I don't think that there is any such thing, at least not in any way worth discussing. Doppelgangers are shape-shifters of such proficiency that it only makes sense for their "true form" to be of either all possible sexes simultaniously or no sex at all, depending on how you look at it. A female doppelganger is also a male doppelganger and also an intersex doppelgander and also a sexless doppelganger. If somebody asked a doppelganger candidly about what their "true" sex was, I can only imagine that it would respond with "Whatever I want it to be, if I even want one at all."


I agree.  The only sticking point is if a doppleganger that is shape-shifted into a race can breed with that race, and what the ramifications are if the doppleganger is the impregnated party.  Although, and I can't recall the source (perhaps the MM from 3e or 4e), I believe this has been covered before.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

The first image is from Oglaf, a +18 webcomic I read more a year ago.

And if I am not wrong the canon say doplegange can breed. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

The first image is from Oglaf, a +18 webcomic I read more a year ago.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

And if I am not wrong the canon say doplegange can breed.

Yes, but I wouldn't take that to mean that they each have a one "true" sex. I'm sure that, if a doppelganger wanted to, they could impregnate a Human female just as easily as they could be impregnated by a Human male. Doppelgangers are the epitomy of sexual fluidity.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Why is mentioning Eberron so taboo amongst the 5E crew? It did both of the races covered in the article specularily in my opinion and this would have been an awesome chance to give the setting a shout out. 
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
Doppelganger can change shape, but only have got gonad of a genre, they can be father o mother, but not both.

* Why we should think they are a menace? Maybe they are only respectables members of masonic lodges, or important advisers of kings and emperor. 

---

 
Picture from "They live".
 
 



Senator Kelly, character from X-Men. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Ed Greenwood posted an article not too long ago about changelings as PC patrons, which I thought was an interesting idea.  Basically, it's one changeling who hires the PCs under different guises to do various things.  It's a win-win situation, where the changeling gets rich through the PCs actions, and in return he helps them out "behind the scenes" by using his personalities to make their jobs easier (i.e. impersonates a servant at the manor to unlock the back gate for the PCs quick get-away).  I think we often think of changelings as bad guys, but I was glad to see them listed as "neutral" since they can just as easily be good guys.

It is not that I mind them being neutral. It is that the current description is not of a neutral monster.

As for their sexuality, I am with the Eberron crowd where changelings are both male and female depending on the form they take, although they might have preferences. It gives them something unique that also fits with their abilities.

I think changeling bodys only can create ovules or "tadpoles" but they can´t create both.

Can a female changeling, with a big pregnant belly cake change to male shape? 

Sometime I wonder about pregnant shapeshifters, for example a Black Fury Garou from "Werewofl the apocalypse" and I had got a answer. For trasnformation there isn´t a genetic change, if a "clothing dressing up". The original body become demi-corporeal, like ectoplasm, and in the material plane is replaced by a alternative shape. The second shape isn´t a true living body (but inborn shapeshifters like theriantropes) but it is used like a powered exoesqueleton.. For me it is better explanation that imagining changing all the DNAs of all cells of body. Like a holograhy or 3D photos, different images superimposed.


"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

female dopleganger

I don't think that there is any such thing, at least not in any way worth discussing. Doppelgangers are shape-shifters of such proficiency that it only makes sense for their "true form" to be of either all possible sexes simultaniously or no sex at all, depending on how you look at it. A female doppelganger is also a male doppelganger and also an intersex doppelgander and also a sexless doppelganger. If somebody asked a doppelganger candidly about what their "true" sex was, I can only imagine that it would respond with "Whatever I want it to be, if I even want one at all."


I agree.  The only sticking point is if a doppleganger that is shape-shifted into a race can breed with that race, and what the ramifications are if the doppleganger is the impregnated party.  Although, and I can't recall the source (perhaps the MM from 3e or 4e), I believe this has been covered before.



With the introduction of the eberon changling race i tend to look at this in the folowing way.
Doppelgangers do not breed while in their natural for but do so in shape changed form deciding who of them takes witch sex.
If a doppelganger breeds with a person of another race while shape changed the result is a changeling.
 
a changeling breeding with a chamgeling produces a changeling.
a changling reproducing with a member of another race results in a member of that race. 
Doppelganger can change shape, but only have got gonad of a genre, they can be father o mother, but not both.

I think changeling bodys only can create ovules or "tadpoles" but they can´t create both.

Why? Seriously, you don't get any more shape-shifter-y than Doppelgangers. If they can't change their functional sex as they please, then who could? Why deny Doppelgangers such a classic shape-shifting trope as changing sex?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
The canon dopplepanger can change appearance and body proportions, but creation of biological organs is a thing totally different. He could do it by means of psycometabolism powers, but it wouldn´t be a innate power. 

I don´t want imagine the scene: OK, your PC is a changeling, and your father is a transgender doppleganger with bigger **** that your mother

For me people transformed by cursed belt of genre change are totally sterile until the end of the curse (What if the curse would end when the character was pregant?).

* Do you rebember the face dancers from Dune Saga?

---

Let´s suposse we accept dopplegangers can change genre, and their gonads too can, but to create gametes time is necesary. A female dopleganger who has changed to male shape is a gun without bullets. The male gametes, the tadpoles, need cold (that is the reason the male gonads are out of the rest of body). If male gonad goes within body because the dopleganger changed to female shape the body heat would kill the litte fishes

To be sexually fertile the doppledanger shouldn´t change gender for long periods of time. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

The canon dopplepanger can change appearance and body proportions, but creation of biological organs is a thing totally different. 

There is nothing canon about it. I have never seen it really discussed beyond the fact that dopplegangers tend to breed with other races and that their ofspring becomes a doppleganger at puberty. It is never mentioned if they can functionally change sex, nor if they cannot. Changelings in Eberron get some attention, but in 3e they differed from dopplegangers, and even there the actual designer of the setting mentioned he prefered them being able to change sex both in appearance and functionality. I cannot remember seeing it discussed in 4e where changelings and dopplegangers are the same race (as they should be IMO).

Let´s suposse we accept dopplegangers can change genre, and their gonads too can, but to create gametes time is necesary. A female dopleganger who has changed to male shape is a gun without bullets. The male gametes, the tadpoles, need cold (that is the reason the male gonads are out of the rest of body). If male gonad goes within body because the dopleganger changed to female shape the body heat would kill the litte fishes

To be sexually fertile the doppledanger shouldn´t change gender for long periods of time. 

Since this is not even true for all animals in RL (plenty of animal groups don't have their gognads outside the body), what makes you think that a creature that change its shape at-will has the same biology as mammals? ;) Mind you, ruling that it would take at least some dedication and no changing while pregnant (or at least not into a male) makes sense, although I doubt the specific time hardly ever matters. I just wouldn't spend too much time on a biological explanation. The whole concept of an instantly shapeshifting creature is silly from a biological and physics (the whole changing mass thing) point of view anyway, so you probably don't want to remind people too much about that fact. It will not help with the believability ;)
I think changeling bodys only can create ovules or "tadpoles" but they can´t create both.

Can a female changeling, with a big pregnant belly cake change to male shape?

This is another question, because then you are removing organs necessary for bearing a child. So ruling that a pregnant doppleganger cannot change sex (or form) at all makes perfect sense ;) 

Sometime I wonder about pregnant shapeshifters, for example a Black Fury Garou from "Werewofl the apocalypse" and I had got a answer. For trasnformation there isn´t a genetic change, if a "clothing dressing up". The original body become demi-corporeal, like ectoplasm, and in the material plane is replaced by a alternative shape. The second shape isn´t a true living body (but inborn shapeshifters like theriantropes) but it is used like a powered exoesqueleton.. For me it is better explanation that imagining changing all the DNAs of all cells of body. Like a holograhy or 3D photos, different images superimposed.

Certainly one way to look at it - and not a bad one at that ;) Wouldn't work well with dopplegangers because they have an unlimited number of shapes.

Nitpick, but as for DNA, you do NOT need to actually change the DNA to get a completely different expression of the genes. A creature does not use all the genes (not by a long shot), and depending on all kinds of circumstances (even going as far as things that happened to the mother before the mother was pregnant) a cell activates specific genes. After all, a taste bud in your tongue needs very different genes then a muscle cell or liver cell and they look completely different. So shapechanging could just involve activating a different set of genes and deactivating another set. Of course, instant expression that leads to such drastic instant changes would require a tremendous amount of energy (not even mention the problems for changes in mass such as with werebears, weretigers and wererats) and raise questions how you keep stuff like bloodvessels functioning during the change. So a RL biological and physics satisfying explanation is virtually impossible for something as a lycanthrope or doppleganger. I think this is one of those things where 'it is magic' is better for your sanity ;)
Do you rebember it?



Don´t you miss it?



Star dopplepanger 


Plant doppleganger, the Ravenloft version of the invasion of body snatchers..

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If dopplegangers can mate with humans and other humanoids their biology should very similar to us.  They could be a hermaphroditic specie, with both genres, like snails. The dopplegangers from Ravenloft are it.



The cannon doppleganger by default can´t create new organs like natural weapons.

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Chamaleon, a Spiderman´s enemy.



Chamelia (Ultimate marvel universe).

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A good DM with doppleganges can create a true paranoia with dopplegangers, for example a campaign about the great purge by high priest of god Xarm, Vissasorn Steelmade, founder of the Reformation Patriotic Church is looking for spies, infiltrators and other enemies of the people and the revolution..(really he is the infiltrator).

Is doppleganger a psionic creature? It´s important if characters are in a dead magic zone or a zone   or null psionic field..
 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Am I the only one who thinks Dopplegangers feel so far realmy they should be aberrant?

They practically should be seen as a sister race of the mimics. They are super creepy, faceless or "big" eyed like the "greys" kind of alien. They frequently are described as developing psychic powers, mostly to be mind readers.

 
Am I the only one who thinks Dopplegangers feel so far realmy they should be aberrant?




I agree, Monstrosity doesn't suit, and they are freaky little aberrant dudes. 
Am I the only one who thinks Dopplegangers feel so far realmy they should be aberrant?

They practically should be seen as a sister race of the mimics. They are super creepy, faceless or "big" eyed like the "greys" kind of alien. They frequently are described as developing psychic powers, mostly to be mind readers.

 

They have been portrayed that way in the past and it is certainly a workable way to use them. It would get in the way of Ebberon style dopplegangers a bit, but not insurmountably.

One of the problems with dopplegangers is that there are so many good archtypes to draw from, more then the game could use. The game really only has space for one doppleganger races. There just are not enough in game uses for such a specalized out of combat foe to have a whole collection of them. So the game has to pick one style and go from that.

see also:
www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Pregna...



The book "Races of Eberron" states that Changelings (Shapeshifters, Halfbreeds of Humans & Doppelganger) will still be capable of changing form while pregnant, but will be unable to change her gender for the duration of the pregnancy.

Now I have got a new doubt... if the shapeshifting power can be used to alter tissues... could it be used to heal injuries? Restoration or refurbishing at home... what is the difference? Using the same tools to different goals.  A homebreed rule could allow that power was used like a equivalent to healing surge. 


"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Now I have got a new doubt... if the shapeshifting power can be used to alter tissues... could it be used to heal injuries?

Probably, but it'll just start another "HP isn't just wounds" fight.

Well, for what it's worth, Alter Shape and Polymorph used to heal a slight amount of HP back in the day, IIRC, probably to reflect just that.

Now I have got a new doubt... if the shapeshifting power can be used to alter tissues... could it be used to heal injuries?

Probably, but it'll just start another "HP isn't just wounds" fight.




in 2e they did just that.

"When the character returns to normal form, 10% to 60% of any wounds suffered while in animal form heal instantly. "


Didn't using Wild Shape in 3.X also restore a character's HP as though it had rested for a night or something?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
New question about shapeshifters.

Let´s imagine a wererat. There is a conflict for hunt zone, wererat vs loup-garou vs wolfwere. The loup-garou killed a wolfwere..but fatally injuried. The wererat tribe saw the combat and take adventage of this and kill the survivor. They are hungry and eat  both...(a some ghouls in the past, but the can´t be infected, only like a temporal hangover effect when they do it). They have ate 2 kg of  meat, and when they change to rat shape with only near 0,5 kg...what about the food in the stomach when shapeshifter change to smaller saze?

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Werebeasts gobbleing ghouls/zombies (no danger of infection) would fun... I mean horrible, oh, yeah. I wouldn´t like my PC shifter did it...of course.... let´s imagine, a postwar zone with all those zombies, being eaten by the theriantropes... 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Didn't using Wild Shape in 3.X also restore a character's HP as though it had rested for a night or something?

Yep, although it was just the flat value, and not dependant on what form you were in when the wounds were acquired. It also triggered upon turning into something, not on turning back into your natural form. Full-night natural healing in 3.5 is 1 HP/Level, so it was a nice little spot of healing, but nothing too crazy. (It might also win the "most forgotten trigger" award.)

Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
I think the alignments are a bit off, IMO. I never got that werewolves are chaotic, considering they are solidly pack animals. I'd say werewolves are lawful evil, and rats are chaotic evil, if alignments are needed at all (I'm not convinced they are needed).




Agreed. Wolves are pack animals...so werewolves should be pack creatures too.
My own free interpretation of chaotic aligment allows me caothic character behave like lawful, but only for people with same allegiance, their tribe for example. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

There is nothing in the chaotic alignment that precludes cooperation, at least not on a small scale between individuals. A pack structure would be a very likely organization structure for chaotic creatures. It is in the way how they cooperate that you would not the difference and it would collapse quickly under outside pressure.

As for shapeshifters and food, like I said, don't spend too much time on such a thing as mass. If a human sized creature can shift into a rat or tiger sized creature wondering about the amount of food it just ate is hardly that problematic ;)
Food and changing size could be important for example if druids use shapeshifting to hunt (or eat grass) or animal companions are transformed in "puppy" version to go to towns. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius