Dimir Hive Mind Mass Mill

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This deck seems a little far fetched but that never stopped me before. I am trying to build a deck focused around Hive Mind and cards like Mind Grind and Wheel and Deal to accomplish a mass milling, saving myself from self mill with Feldon's Cane. I like the cipher ability with Hive Mind as well so I thru in Whispering Madness paired with Invisible Stalker set it off. I realize in a deck like this protection is mandatory. I would also like some mana ramp to get the Hive Mind out quicker. I am having trouble fitting everything into 60 cards. I don't know if this can be done somewhat competitively or not, but this is what I have so far. I am looking for help constructing at least a somewhat competitive build. Please help steer me in the right direction. As per usual, I will work on the mana base after I get something I feel is worthy. Thanks



For me if I am using a mill deck then Tome Scour is a must. I would probably add some Increasing Confusion. In a mill deck it is almost neccesary to put in a Jace Beleren, really any of them are fine, but my favorite is Jace Beleren, But if you are planning on going 1vs1vs1 Deginitely go with Jace, Memory Adept.
Also Hedron Crab is extremely helpful.
This deck seems a little far fetched but that never stopped me before. I am trying to build a deck focused around Hive Mind and cards like Mind Grind and Wheel and Deal to accomplish a mass milling, saving myself from self mill with Feldon's Cane. I like the cipher ability with Hive Mind as well so I thru in Whispering Madness paired with Invisible Stalker set it off. I realize in a deck like this protection is mandatory. I would also like some mana ramp to get the Hive Mind out quicker. I am having trouble fitting everything into 60 cards. I don't know if this can be done somewhat competitively or not, but this is what I have so far. I am looking for help constructing at least a somewhat competitive build. Please help steer me in the right direction. As per usual, I will work on the mana base after I get something I feel is worthy. Thanks





Personally, I think feldon's cane is a little outdated. Conjurer's bauble or elixir of immortality would be much better, IMO. I'm not too sure about the inclusion of whispering madness and invisible stalker, they kind of need each other to be semi-useful. Forced fruition is generally a bad card, and it eats removal like a fat guy at the buffet table. Ethereal usher costs 6, consuming aberration and hive mind both cost 5, maybe brainspoil or just diabolic tutor would be better. I highly suggest you get some artifact mana sources so you can really power out the mind grind. Everflowing chalice with proliferation is fun, adding lots of artifacts with blinkmoth urn is fun. Urzatron and/or 16-post is fun with X-spells as well.

Overall, I feel like your deck has too many big wincon cards, and less control, something all mill decks kind of need.
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains.
Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
I agree that I need more control. Hive Mind costs six as does Forced Fruition. I agree that the stalker and cipher need each other and should probably be dropped all together, maybe for more control. I really want a mass mill deck that focuses on milling everyone. I may go with Witchbane Orb and utilize tons of individual mill cards like Mind Funeral and Traumatize to combo with the Hive Mind. This is just in the beginning stages and needs to be worked through to come up with something that can at least compete for milling victories. Like I said I don't know if it can be done effectively or not but I will keep trying. Thanks



Nephalia Drownyard is a must I would think.
Pendrell Mists can sometimes be just as effective as Propaganda, if not more so, but this will depend greatly on your group.
Maybe some Meekstone aswell.....

The biggest problem I see, is that for a Multiplayer deck you still have a few "target opponent" instead of every opponent.
In a game with more than 3 players this will hurt you.
I agree that I need more control. Hive Mind costs six as does Forced Fruition. I agree that the stalker and cipher need each other and should probably be dropped all together, maybe for more control. I really want a mass mill deck that focuses on milling everyone. I may go with Witchbane Orb and utilize tons of individual mill cards like Mind Funeral and Traumatize to combo with the Hive Mind. This is just in the beginning stages and needs to be worked through to come up with something that can at least compete for milling victories. Like I said I don't know if it can be done effectively or not but I will keep trying. Thanks





Ah! Thanks for clearing that issue with hive mind's cost, I had a brain-fart!

Still, I think forced fruition is bad for three reasons: first, it costs 6 to cast; second, it paints a target on your head; and Third, it allows your opponents to draw cards instead of actually milling them, and trust me, there is a difference. Almost every single game where somebody plays a forced fruition, somebody else naturalizes it and gets a fresh hand to boot.

Have you considered splashing white? the black mana costs are very low in the deck, and most of them are on higher casting cards. If you add white, you'll have access to things like leyline of sanctity, rest in peace and sphere of safety (maybe for budget reasons, I know propagandas aren't cheap, and I try to spread them accross several decks, the spheres are pretty nice in the right deck.)

Considering your deck looks more like a combo now, you might want to consider more permanent styles of control. You could also use memory erosion for more passive mill. I would also up rhystic study to 4, you'll want to play it as early as possible to maximize its effectiveness.

I hope this stirred some ideas! Good luck!
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains.
Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
I have put together an esper list. This may be the way to go. I now feel that I may have too much protection and not enough mill but I will give it a try. Thanks for the opinions.
Mesmeric Orb?
I realise Sphere of Safety is why so many enchantments, just wondering.....
Chancellor of the Spires?
Meekstone could also be Island Sanctuary.

You said you may have too much protection - considering your deck won't be going off until turn 6 or 7, and it's quite unlikely that a deck based on multiplayer mill is gonna survive well without lots of protection anyway.
But you're going for a combo approach.  I'd wanna make sure you get there by getting the pieces you need.

Idyllic Tutor? (a lot cheaper than Academy Rector)
Either that or a load of card draw.
Rhystic is good, maybe some Phyrexian Arena

On another note, Zur the enchanter is on colour & kinda funny for finding stuff too.
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