Level 28 Beastmaster?

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So Ive been playing a ranger for a while and it was a little ugly over the weekend (did way too much damage).  So while sticking with the same concept, Im trying to come up with a way to enjoy playing him as a beast master.  I didn't see anything here about epic beastmaster builds though.  

As it stands, I have 8 actions per round.  [move, minor standard [which will put me under 0 hit points - weapon deals 15 to me on a hit w/ca], extra minor from Master of Moments, extra move/minor/minor from Revenant, extra minor from headslot item].  top of the round i make a death save or use a cure light potion, returning to above 1 hit point, repeat the cycle.

the plan is to use 7 of those actions to make my beast companion attack.  paragon path is horizon walker for the big bonus to death saves and the extra move on an action point [for a grand total of 12 actions on the AP round].

suggestions?

 
Epic Beast Masters are immortal if optimized, they suck in Heroic and Paragon. So not sure how turning a can't be killed Revenant into a really can't be killed Revenant is helping....
Drop the revenant cheeze?

While using the beast for negligable damage should work as far as balance, your still using alot of time on yourself just for the die rolling.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Epic Beast Masters are immortal if optimized, they suck in Heroic and Paragon. So not sure how turning a can't be killed Revenant into a really can't be killed Revenant is helping....

Imortality not really an issue.  Getting the most out of my many many many actions is the goal.

Tried it with battlemind hybrid, and it was just too much.  40 damage per action, plus lots of teleportation plus ring of windows / planestrider boots to block like 20+ squares was just a bit out of control (even by my standards).

The goal is to just make sure the animal critter is hitting as much as possible. 
Drop the revenant cheeze?

While using the beast for negligable damage should work as far as balance, your still using alot of time on yourself just for the die rolling.



Nah, we use average damage, so its just rolling 7+ d20's.  Doesn't really take much time at all.
How about using the actions for movement?  Take boots of caiphon, staff of the traveler, and some "do something when you teleport" thing.

Like Offerings of Celestian, or evermeet warlock, or the ring that makes blocking terrain.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

How about using the actions for movement?  Take boots of caiphon, staff of the traveler, and some "do something when you teleport" thing.

Like Offerings of Celestian, or evermeet warlock, or the ring that makes blocking terrain.

yeah i had the ring that makes blocking terrain and the weapon that teleports you when you hit on this weekend... it was very ridiculous.  teleport 13 per attack. 

i was thinking about riding the companion (and turning into some tiny critter with Tuathan) so that I could constantly be hidden in the fur of the companion (triggering my mark of the dark moon half damage stuff).  

then using the minor action attacks to push the target around the board.  but if they dont hit, no pushing.
I think by dropping the master of moments ED and tuathan, and taking the epic beast master destiny and werebear theme instead ive been able to work out something pretty effective.  My owl companion can be the target of my werebear hybrid form (owl bear?  bearowl?).  If he bears up, he has a grab on his at-wll melee basic.  he can be affected by my dagger of teleporting and hurting us both when we hit with combat advantage.  so effectively, he can tear ass around the board marking and doing whatever he wants like 7 times a round.

I've looked at the rules forum and it seems unclear as to whether you can teleport a creature you are grabbing with you.  

Air is not hindering terrain, and as long as I maintain the grab, it's not like I'm pushing the creature off a ledge.  If I release the grab, that does seem like saving throw land, except if I dont release the grab until we are 100 feet in the air, what is there for the target to grab onto?  Me?  Okay I teleport away.  So now you just fall...
If you have a teleport speed you could use it as part of forceful drag but that puts a slide effect on your dragee so your couldn't drag them vertically unless they had a fly speed (which doesn't help you).

As far as I know there is no way to force your grabee to teleport with you (or even to move with you apart from the aforementioned utility power). 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Moving a grabbed target is normally a standard action athletics check.  If you teleport, you lose your grab.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Both very reasonable answers, though I wouldnt call either one definitive.  "Normally" moving a grabbed creatures is a standard action atletics check that is agreed.  

But the teleport/lose grab is not clear at all.  You can teleport out of being grabbed, nothing says it works the other way.  If it were a held object, then clearly it would teleport with you.  The only difference is that this is an unwilling creature.  

Asssume Im not trying to be cheesy - imagine Nightcrawler - he teleports over to a falling ally, grabs him, then teleports to the ground to save him.  Seems reasonable to me.  Its actually a lot easier than trying to drag an ally (or enemy) to just hold onto them and let the magic do the work.

Then again, I look at mounts with the teleport power.  Usually they disappear from under your butt if they go somewhere and you fall down.  So simply sitting on top of a creature is not enough to let you move with it when it teleports.

This seems like a very grey area. 
Moving a grabbed target is normally a standard action athletics check.  If you teleport, you lose your grab.



Moving a grabbed target
Move a Grabbed Target
         Action: Standard action.
         Strength Check: The creature makes a Strength check opposed by the Fortitude of a target it is grabbing. The check automatically succeeds if the target is a helpless ally of the creature.
         Success: The creature can move up to half its speed and pull the target with it. The creature’s movement doesn’t provoke an opportunity attack from the grabbed target, but the movement otherwise provokes opportunity attacks as normal.


So you'll basically never be able to do that. Half level + strength vs Fort will pretty much never hit. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Moving a grabbed target is normally a standard action athletics check.  If you teleport, you lose your grab.



Moving a grabbed target
Move a Grabbed Target
         Action: Standard action.
         Strength Check: The creature makes a Strength check opposed by the Fortitude of a target it is grabbing. The check automatically succeeds if the target is a helpless ally of the creature.
         Success: The creature can move up to half its speed and pull the target with it. The creature’s movement doesn’t provoke an opportunity attack from the grabbed target, but the movement otherwise provokes opportunity attacks as normal.


So you'll basically never be able to do that. Half level + strength vs Fort will pretty much never hit. 

Like I said, I know that is the general rule.  However, specific overrides general.  If you have a specific power that lets you do something outside of the general rule (ie teleport, or see the Roc and its powers of grab and drop), then the general rule does not apply.
As a DM, Id probably give any unwilling target a saving throw.  I want the hero's to be able to teleport into/out of a burning building to save a baby for example.  A rule that would not allow you to do that seems unfair and not intended.  So creating a way for the unwilling to resist while letting willing targets do it all the itme seems to makes the most sense.
It's also worth noting that it generally needs specific overrides to allow you to teleport allies (Eldritch Knight, for instance) when you teleport yourself.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
It's also worth noting that it generally needs specific overrides to allow you to teleport allies (Eldritch Knight, for instance) when you teleport yourself.

That is true too.  But of course, they are generally "adjacent" not "grabbed" targets.
You would need a specific rule that allows you to teleport a target while you have it grabbed and allow it to remain grabbed. As far as I am aware, there is no such PC power, but if you have one I would be interested to see it.

There is no general rule (or even a specific rule) that always forces (or even allows) a grabbed target to teleport with its grabber when the grabber teleports.

So until the PC has a "teleport other" power, I'm afraid that baby is going to a toasty oblivion. (Yes, rhetoric about dead babies isn't going to sway people in a mechanical rules argument).
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Concur.

This is a game which requires specific rules to do specific things.  There's no rule saying your grabbed target moves with you when you teleport, so it doesn't.  Just as there's no rule which says it moves with you when you move (with the specific exceptions noted above of Moving a Grabbed Target and of various brawler fighter powers), so if you move when you have something grabbed, the grab drops.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Again, there is also no rule that says held objects move with you when you teleport, but we all asssume they do.  Or worn objects for that matter.  How about something else in between like a magical bridle - its held by you and worn by your mount.  If you teleport, does it go with you or stay with your mount?  If you mount teleports, does it go with the mount or stay in your hands.  If I just grab the weapon of the enemy (instead of the enemy itself) can i teleport with that, even if he is still holding it?

It really is not as clear as you make it sound.  Lot's of grey.

And for the record its also clear that teleporting an enemy is not game mechanics "forced movement" (cause forced movement is specifically defined as push pull or slide), even though telport is clearly defined as a kind of movement from one location to another (even when not a "move") and you would be forcing the enemy to come along, hence it is "forced"  "movement".    Sloppy sloppy language. 
Again, there is also no rule that says held objects move with you when you teleport, but we all asssume they do.  Or worn objects for that matter.  How about something else in between like a magical bridle - its held by you and worn by your mount.  If you teleport, does it go with you or stay with your mount?  If you mount teleports, does it go with the mount or stay in your hands.  If I just grab the weapon of the enemy (instead of the enemy itself) can i teleport with that, even if he is still holding it?

It really is not as clear as you make it sound.  Lot's of grey. 



The bridle stays with the thing wearing it.

It really is simple. And if you want to use munchkinism to increase your ability in combat, I don't need to prove a negative, I only need to prove a grey area. If you the rules don't say you can do it, you can't. That's an exception-based system.

There is nothing special about teleporting over normal movement except you don't need line of effect (and it can fail if you force it on someone), it doesn't trigger OAs and you can do it while immoblised or restrained. Otherwise it is identical to walking.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Again, there is also no rule that says held objects move with you when you teleport, but we all asssume they do.  Or worn objects for that matter.  How about something else in between like a magical bridle - its held by you and worn by your mount.  If you teleport, does it go with you or stay with your mount?  If you mount teleports, does it go with the mount or stay in your hands.  If I just grab the weapon of the enemy (instead of the enemy itself) can i teleport with that, even if he is still holding it?

It really is not as clear as you make it sound.  Lot's of grey. 



The bridle stays with the thing wearing it.

It really is simple. And if you want to use munchkinism to increase your ability in combat, I don't need to prove a negative, I only need to prove a grey area. If you the rules don't say you can do it, you can't. That's an exception-based system.

There is nothing special about teleporting over normal movement except you don't need line of effect (and it can fail if you force it on someone), it doesn't trigger OAs and you can do it while immoblised or restrained. Otherwise it is identical to walking.

Okay if its idenitical to walking, then when I walk away while holding a bridle... it comes with me until I meet resistance, and then I probably have to make a check.  If I walk away while holding a weapon... it comes with me until I meet resistance, then I probably have to make a check.  If i walk away while carrying a baby, it comes with me.  

If I walk away while carrying a kobold it would generally come with me (except see above rule for the standard action moving a creature).  But given that rule, I still dont understand how that works because if something grants me a move (just a walk not a teleport) how does that interact with the standard action above.  

As I said before generally, I should have to make a standard action check, but something is granting me movement above and beyond that check...  and the Athletics check makes sense if you are dragging something along the ground (inertia, gravity, resistane etc. that you have to overcome).  But if you are holding a creature off the ground (carrying vs. grabbing)?  Doesnt make any sense.
And re: munchkinism, sure, if there is gray area, then its up to your DM to make the call, so if you are the DM, then you can say within your rights, no that just wont work.  I was just exploring the options and seeing what would make the most sense, given the lack of rule.

The teleporting is not an essential part of the build, just a curiousity. I love the idea of an owl bear grabbing someone, leaping into the air and then dropping them, but the owlbear just beating them into next week works just fine. 
Okay if its idenitical to walking, then when I walk away while holding a bridle... it comes with me until I meet resistance, and then I probably have to make a check.


To either break your bridle (or your mount in half). There are no rules for this (except the rules for removing a mount item - iirc, it takes 5 minutes).
If I walk away while holding a weapon... it comes with me until I meet resistance, then I probably have to make a check.

 
There are no rules for disarming enemies (except the odd fighter e17). There is no rules that you can wrestle a weapon away from an enemy so you can't.
If i walk away while carrying a baby, it comes with me.  


It does, until you hit a wall, in which case you can't pass through it.
If I walk away while carrying a kobold it would generally come with me (except see above rule for the standard action moving a creature).


No, normally it won't, unless you pass that strength check vs fort roll using a specific standard action rule that allows you to do so.
But given that rule, I still dont understand how that works because if something grants me a move (just a walk not a teleport) how does that interact with the standard action above.


It's a specific standard action that requires a standard action. A move action is not a standard action so you can't do it. How is it not obvious? 

As I said before generally, I should have to make a standard action check, but something is granting me movement above and beyond that check...  and the Athletics check makes sense if you are dragging something along the ground (inertia, gravity, resistane etc. that you have to overcome).


If someone grants you movement then you cannot move a grabbed target, because rules do what the say they do and the requirement to move a grabbed target are plainly laid out.
But if you are holding a creature off the ground (carrying vs. grabbing)?  Doesnt make any sense.

 
There are no rules for carrying a creature except to let it be mounted on you. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
This is just silly. Of course you can't teleport other creatures unless a power specifically says you can. Equipment isn't a creature, so the comparison is totally inapplicable. An eladrin can't teleport his pixie ally by saying "the pixie is in my pocket when I teleport."

And arguing that "air isn't hidering terrain" so you can teleport something and drop it is equally ridiculous. Creatures specifically get a save to prevent being teleported into the air (for powers that actually do that, of which you have none). Grabs have no language that negates that.

CharOp operates in lots of gray areas, but these aren't really gray. Specific only overrides general when you actually have specific wording to back you up. There is no such wording in the grab definition, or whatever other definition you're trying to shoehorn this idea into.
Okay if its idenitical to walking, then when I walk away while holding a bridle... it comes with me until I meet resistance, and then I probably have to make a check.


To either break your bridle (or your mount in half). There are no rules for this (except the rules for removing a mount item - iirc, it takes 5 minutes).
If I walk away while holding a weapon... it comes with me until I meet resistance, then I probably have to make a check.

 
There are no rules for disarming enemies (except the odd fighter e17). There is no rules that you can wrestle a weapon away from an enemy so you can't.
If i walk away while carrying a baby, it comes with me.  


It does, until you hit a wall, in which case you can't pass through it.
If I walk away while carrying a kobold it would generally come with me (except see above rule for the standard action moving a creature).


No, normally it won't, unless you pass that strength check vs fort roll using a specific standard action rule that allows you to do so.
But given that rule, I still dont understand how that works because if something grants me a move (just a walk not a teleport) how does that interact with the standard action above.


It's a specific standard action that requires a standard action. A move action is not a standard action so you can't do it. How is it not obvious? 

As I said before generally, I should have to make a standard action check, but something is granting me movement above and beyond that check...  and the Athletics check makes sense if you are dragging something along the ground (inertia, gravity, resistane etc. that you have to overcome).


If someone grants you movement then you cannot move a grabbed target, because rules do what the say they do and the requirement to move a grabbed target are plainly laid out.
But if you are holding a creature off the ground (carrying vs. grabbing)?  Doesnt make any sense.

 
There are no rules for carrying a creature except to let it be mounted on you. 

Theivery lets you remove a small object from another's possession.  Small is undefined, but I'd consider a dagger small.  I think you are missing the entire point of having flexibile skill and ability checks.  DM's are supposed to adjudicate those things in a way that makes sense.  Just because there isn't a line under theivery that says, "Disarm an opponent" doesn't mean that skill can't be used - it just means its at the DM's discretion.

Not a move action.  Just movement as part of another action (or for free.)    In this case, I have a weapon that says when i hit a creature granting me combat abvantage I can teleport 4.  Let's assume this says "walk 4" instead.   I hit the target, resulting in a grab.  Then I get my no action walk 4.  What happens?  There are quick palm powers that work the same way (you hit and can make a free pick pocket, then walk away).  

The more I think about it, the more the athletics check makes sense as how creatures resist the pull (rather than a save).  Its totally fair to assume I will meet resistance, and totally fair to assume that resistance will affect how far I can move as well.   




Your no action 'walk 4' means you have to decide whether you want to drop the grab, or not move out of reach.  You cannot move a grabbed target except by using things which specifically say you can.  Same applies to teleporting.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
This is just silly. Of course you can't teleport other creatures unless a power specifically says you can. Equipment isn't a creature, so the comparison is totally inapplicable. An eladrin can't teleport his pixie ally by saying "the pixie is in my pocket when I teleport."

And arguing that "air isn't hidering terrain" so you can teleport something and drop it is equally ridiculous. Creatures specifically get a save to prevent being teleported into the air (for powers that actually do that, of which you have none). Grabs have no language that negates that.

CharOp operates in lots of gray areas, but these aren't really gray. Specific only overrides general when you actually have specific wording to back you up. There is no such wording in the grab definition, or whatever other definition you're trying to shoehorn this idea into.




Sillyness agreed.

But the pixie pocket?  Again that sounds totally reasonable.  If you have been swallowed by a purple worm, and that purple worm teleports, you dont just fall out.  You are in it, and it teleports, you are still in it.  If you teleport out somehow (without line of sight), then you are no longer swallowed, but its a one way street.  Where is the line between adjacent creatures and swallowed creatures?

If you are being held in the air, it is definitely not hindering terrain.  For example, two creatures with fly speeds can drag/pull/push/slide eachother all day without any special saves.  If you are flying along no problem, and I hit you with something that negates your flight ability, you don't suddenly get an extra save to stop me from doing that.  You just fall.   Similarly, while you are being grabbed by a flying creature, let's say a dragon, if it uses its standard action to drag you as it moves into the air, you don't get a seperate save to stop that, it just has to hit your fort and off it goes.  Then it drops you.
The dragon CAN'T forced move you into the air unless something specifically says it can, at which point, you get a save.

You're not getting this: you don't get to do anything the rules don't tell you you can do.  Or, to remove the double negative, you can ONLY do what the rules say you CAN do.  The pixie is an ally, so it doesn't teleport with you unless you have a thing which specifically says it does.  Same with mounts - if your mount teleports, you don't go along with it unless you have a Nightmare Saddle.  In that instance, you are forcibly dismounted.

If you want legit broken epic combos, there are plenty.  This is not one.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Theivery lets you remove a small object from another's possession.  Small is undefined, but I'd consider a dagger small.  I think you are missing the entire point of having flexibile skill and ability checks.  DM's are supposed to adjudicate those things in a way that makes sense.  Just because there isn't a line under theivery that says, "Disarm an opponent" doesn't mean that skill can't be used - it just means its at the DM's discretion.



No DM will let you steal a dagger while the opponent is stabbing you with it (and also the number of enemies with small weapons is so tiny to be neglible).

Not a move action.  Just movement as part of another action (or for free.)    In this case, I have a weapon that says when i hit a creature granting me combat abvantage I can teleport 4.  Let's assume this says "walk 4" instead.   I hit the target, resulting in a grab.  Then I get my no action walk 4.  What happens?  There are quick palm powers that work the same way (you hit and can make a free pick pocket, then walk away).  



You walk/teleport away and release the grab when you are out of reach, because that is what the rules say?

The more I think about it, the more the athletics check makes sense as how creatures resist the pull (rather than a save).  Its totally fair to assume I will meet resistance, and totally fair to assume that resistance will affect how far I can move as well.



What pull? A pull is a defined game term and you are not generating any forced movement. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Also: appealing to real-world logic in a discussion about whether you can teleport something is both irrelevant and silly.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Similarly, while you are being grabbed by a flying creature, let's say a dragon, if it uses its standard action to drag you as it moves into the air, you don't get a seperate save to stop that, it just has to hit your fort and off it goes.  Then it drops you.

These kinds of powers do exist, but they have specific wording that allows them to work. Because without that wording, they don't.
- Rule: "If you move away from the creature you’re grabbing, you let go and the grab ends."  
- Exception: "Move a Grabbed Target
         Action: Standard action.
         Strength Check: The creature makes a Strength check opposed by the Fortitude of a target it is grabbing. The check automatically succeeds if the target is a helpless ally of the creature.
         Success: The creature can move up to half its speed and pull the target with it."
Rule: Forced movement is normally two-dimensional;
Exception: Forced movement can become three-dimensional when the target is flying [when you are grabbed by a flying creature and dragged, you are flying], ... or is on a non-horizontal surface, such as an incline, that supports it [such as the dragon].

So in the case of a dragon, it absolutely can grab you, then standard action pull you up with it, then release the grab, without you getting a save.

In the case of my character, there is a weirdness.  

I grab you (lets assume with a minor action)  Then let's assume I have a teleport speed, so I make the standard action "move a grabbed creature" check.  I move half my speed lets say up in the air.  I pull (forced movement) the target along with me.  But now its odd -   Rule: teleporting a creature, even an unwilling one, does not count as forced movement.  So does the two dimensions rule even apply?  Could go either way.  Even if it does, you are flying cause you are with me and I am flying, so the three dimension exception kicks in.

Are you in any danger of falling as a result of the pull-eport? No, that action doesn't actually make you fall - you are snug and safe in my warm bear arms.  

The action that makes you fall is a free action release a grabbed creature.  You are only entitled to saves against forced movement or teleportation into hazardous terrain, and since the trigger that is putting you into the hazardous terrain is neither forced movement nor teleportation, you cannot make a save.


The ONLY  questionable part of the combo is whether I have to take a standard action to move you or whether I could make that check as part of another action.  I think there is strong argument to say that I need to make that standard action.
- Rule: "If you move away from the creature you’re grabbing, you let go and the grab ends."  
- Exception: "Move a Grabbed Target
         Action: Standard action.
         Strength Check: The creature makes a Strength check opposed by the Fortitude of a target it is grabbing. The check automatically succeeds if the target is a helpless ally of the creature.
         Success: The creature can move up to half its speed and pull the target with it."
Rule: Forced movement is normally two-dimensional;
Exception: Forced movement can become three-dimensional when the target is flying [when you are grabbed by a flying creature and dragged, you are flying], ... or is on a non-horizontal surface, such as an incline, that supports it [such as the dragon].


No.  If you are grabbed by a dragon, you are not flying, you are grabbed by a dragon.  NOTHING has said you're flying, so you're not.  Nothing about being grabbed by a flying creature provides a specific exception to the general rule that you can't be force-moved into terrain which you can't normally move into.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
This argument is getting closer to the rear end of a cow.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
- Rule: "If you move away from the creature you’re grabbing, you let go and the grab ends."  
- Exception: "Move a Grabbed Target
         Action: Standard action.
         Strength Check: The creature makes a Strength check opposed by the Fortitude of a target it is grabbing. The check automatically succeeds if the target is a helpless ally of the creature.
         Success: The creature can move up to half its speed and pull the target with it."
Rule: Forced movement is normally two-dimensional;
Exception: Forced movement can become three-dimensional when the target is flying [when you are grabbed by a flying creature and dragged, you are flying], ... or is on a non-horizontal surface, such as an incline, that supports it [such as the dragon].


No.  If you are grabbed by a dragon, you are not flying, you are grabbed by a dragon.  NOTHING has said you're flying, so you're not.  Nothing about being grabbed by a flying creature provides a specific exception to the general rule that you can't be force-moved into terrain which you can't normally move into.

If you are on a flying carpet, are you flying? If you are on the back of the dragon in a saddle, are you flying?  If you are in a helicopter that is flying, are you flying?  It's standard english language, not rules mechanics.
No - hence why you can't slide a person 1 square up from the back of a dragon.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I grab you (lets assume with a minor action)  Then let's assume I have a teleport speed, so I make the standard action "move a grabbed creature" check.  I move half my speed lets say up in the air.  I pull (forced movement) the target along with me.  But now its odd -   Rule: teleporting a creature, even an unwilling one, does not count as forced movement.  So does the two dimensions rule even apply?  Could go either way.  Even if it does, you are flying cause you are with me and I am flying, so the three dimension exception kicks in. 

Are you in any danger of falling as a result of the pull-eport? No, that action doesn't actually make you fall - you are snug and safe in my warm bear arms.  



Also there is no such thing as a pull-eport. The movement that you take is a teleport but that doesn't change the rules that you 'pull' the target, and you can't do that without line of effect or into an a cube that it coudn't normally walk into (unless it has a fly speed). Where did you get the idea that you were teleporting the enemy just because you were teleporting?
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Yes, if you are on a flying carpet, an item which grants you a fly speed, you are flying if you want to be.

Yes, if you are mounted on a willing, allied dragon, you are flying as you use its movement modes whilst mounted (with the exception of teleportation, which, as previously mentioned, needs a specific item to avoid dumping you off).

Helicopters are irrelevant as they're not dealt with by the rules ;) but if they were, they'd be either mounts or vehicles, both of which have specific rules to govern them.

None of these are being unwillingly grabbed by a flying enemy.

You are wrong.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
If you're mounted on a flying dragon, you are not flying.  You are mounted on a flying dragon.  If knocked off the flying dragon, you don't descend your speed before you fall (like a flying creature would), you fall.

Yes, by base rules, a dragon can't drag you up in the air.  Yes, that's kinda dumb, but that's also the rules.  Some creatures have special exceptions, but LFR has to add special exceptions (via Tactics blocks, usually) to make that a legal option for other creatures.

 

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

The rules about falling do not apply to a creature mounted/riding/occupying a vehicle etc. not because the creature isn't flying, but because its fly speed is reduced to 0 once it is no longer riding.  

"Flying Creatures: If a creature falls while it is flying (see below), it descends the full distance of the fall but is likely to take less damage than a creature that can’t fly. Multiply the creature’s fly speed by 5 and subtract that value from the distance of the fall, then figure out falling damage. If the difference is 0 or less, the creature lands without taking damage from the fall."   Fly speed 0 = no reduction in damage.  

There is a rule of interpretation in the legal world (and the real world) that says if you have to choose between more than one interpretation of a word, you use the interpretation that makes things make the most sense and renders the fewest other things non-sensical.  If you follow the interpreation of the word "flying" that says flying is defined as having a fly speed, then dragons cannot pick up sheep/cows/horses/babies or anything else.  Since that makes no damn sense at all (its more than kind of dumb, its totally inconsistent with the game world), you have to interpret flying in that section of rules as referring to the webster's dictionary definition, "moving in the air."  The result is that when you are moving in the air, three dimensional rules are allowed for forced movement.

"Where did you get the idea that you were teleporting the enemy just because you were teleporting?"  Because I am moving a grabbed target?  He is still grabbed when I move, via my movement mode (teleporting, flying, swimming, eathwalking etc.) and he is moving with me, since I did not release the grab.  Its a teleport and a forced movement even though teleports can't be forced movement.  And its irrelevant.

Last example of why these rules ARE NOT clear.  Huge creature grabs tiny non-flying creature (lets say a giant grabs a cat familiar).   There used to be language about getting pulled into the square of the grappling creature, but now its gone.  So I suppose the giant has to make a athletics check to lift the cat up to the top of its reach (lets say square 6).  You will likely say that it cant do that for several reasons (one it's not a pull, squares arent closer, its in a different vertical plane, and its in the air so it would get a save).  

That is all totally ridiculous.  A giant who has grabbed an entire cat should be easily able to lift its arm up and then let go of the cat, dropping it 30' to the earth.  Any interpretation of the rules that says such a thing can't happen must by rules of interpretation be incorrect.

 
Um, does your argument really boil down to "rules that make no sense are wrong"?

The King is less powerful than the queen?  That makes no sense!  She's a girl!  I've been playing chess wrong all these years. 

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima