Help with kitchen table scenario..

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I casted a fireball for 15 mana making it a 14 damage fireball
to my opponents face.


In response she used a cancel.


heres where the argument begins...


I activated Chandra, The Firebrands +2 ability making another fireball. 

Does activating chandras ability make a 0 damage or 14 damage fireball to a single target creature or player?

Loyalty abilities can only be activated any time you could cast a sorcery. They cannot be used in response to spells and abilities. You need to use Chandra, the firebrand's ability before you cast fireball.

If you do copy fireball, the copy has the same value of x as the original spell. Since you chose that x=14 for the original, x=14 for the copy too.
First off, you need to activate Chandra's ability before you cast the Fireball (it looks for the next instant or sorcery you cast that turn, not the last one that you cast). Activating Chandra's ability after you cast the Fireball will not get you a copy of that Fireball.

As for your question, X is copiable, so if you activate Chandra's ability, then cast a Fireball with x=14, then the copy will also have X=14.

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Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.

Fireball, Cancel and most importantly Chandra, the Firebrand




A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "sorcery speed". You can't use Chandra's ability in response to Cancel, so you must let Cancel counter Fireball (sending it to the graveyard) so you don't have anything to copy with Chandra. You don't even get a 0-damage Fireball, you don't get any fireball at all.



Chandra's -2 ability says "When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn...", so you must use Chandra's ability first, and then you cast (play) Fireball. If you do so, countering the original Fireball will not affect the copy (and the copy still deals 14 damage).

[<o>]

Fireball, Cancel and most importantly Chandra, the Firebrand




A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "instant speed". You can't use Chandra's ability in response to Cancel, so you must let Cancel counter Fireball (sending it to the graveyard) so you don't have anything to copy with Chandra. You don't even get a 0-damage Fireball, you don't get any fireball at all.



Chandra's -2 ability says "When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn...", so you must use Chandra's ability first, and then you cast (play) Fireball. If you do so, countering the original Fireball will not affect the copy (and the copy still deals 14 damage).




So what your saying is my requence of casting/activation is twisted by casting firball first and not using chandras ability and that I must activate chandras ability first to get 2 14 dmg fireballs for 15 mana and -2 loyalty?
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />So what your saying is my requence of casting/activation is twisted by casting firball first and not using chandras ability and that I must activate chandras ability first to get 2 14 dmg fireballs for 15 mana and -2 loyalty?


Yes, that ability copies the next one you cast, not a previous one you cast.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "instant speed".


Main problem: You said the exact opposite of what you obviously meant to say here.

Secondary problem: There is no such thing as "speed" in Magic.

Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011

A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "instant speed".


Main problem: You said the exact opposite of what you obviously meant to say here.

Secondary problem: There is no such thing as "speed" in Magic.


1) Fixed


2) C'mon, it's inside quotation marks. There's no speed but there's "speed" *Mr. Evil's air quotes*

[<o>]
Also, CHandra's spell copy ability is minus 2 loyalty, not plus 2 loyalty.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.


A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "instant speed".


Main problem: You said the exact opposite of what you obviously meant to say here.

Secondary problem: There is no such thing as "speed" in Magic.


1) Fixed


2) C'mon, it's inside quotation marks. There's no speed but there's "speed" *Mr. Evil's air quotes*


But how do we know you're using Dr. Evil's airquotes unless you tell us? In any case, "speed in Magic" is a misconception that really needs to be squashed. Using the word in any context (other than "Magic doesn't have") isn't helpful and could be harmful.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman


A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "instant speed".


Main problem: You said the exact opposite of what you obviously meant to say here.

Secondary problem: There is no such thing as "speed" in Magic.


1) Fixed


2) C'mon, it's inside quotation marks. There's no speed but there's "speed" *Mr. Evil's air quotes*


But how do we know you're using Dr. Evil's airquotes unless you tell us? In any case, "speed in Magic" is a misconception that really needs to be squashed. Using the word in any context (other than "Magic doesn't have") isn't helpful and could be harmful.




yea well, its a throwback to when magic did have speeds: sorcery, instant and interupt

its also closer to the way people speak so it flows more naturally to say:

its at sorcery speed

as opposed to:

can only be cast when you could cast a sorcery

if you understand the game at all you understand what sorc speed and instant speed are even if the terms are not used in the official rules anymore, instant speeds can be used in response and go on the stack, sorc is main phase only and without the ability to respond

yea well, its a throwback to when magic did have speeds: sorcery, instant and interupt

its also closer to the way people speak so it flows more naturally to say:

its at sorcery speed

as opposed to:

can only be cast when you could cast a sorcery


Around here, the prefered phrasing would be Sorcery/Instant timing.

Fireball, Cancel and most importantly Chandra, the Firebrand




A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "sorcery speed". You can't use Chandra's ability in response to Cancel, so you must let Cancel counter Fireball (sending it to the graveyard) so you don't have anything to copy with Chandra. You don't even get a 0-damage Fireball, you don't get any fireball at all.



Chandra's -2 ability says "When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn...", so you must use Chandra's ability first, and then you cast (play) Fireball. If you do so, countering the original Fireball will not affect the copy (and the copy still deals 14 damage).



9r4tz

Fireball, Cancel and most importantly Chandra, the Firebrand




A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "instant speed". You can't use Chandra's ability in response to Cancel, so you must let Cancel counter Fireball (sending it to the graveyard) so you don't have anything to copy with Chandra. You don't even get a 0-damage Fireball, you don't get any fireball at all.



Chandra's -2 ability says "When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn...", so you must use Chandra's ability first, and then you cast (play) Fireball. If you do so, countering the original Fireball will not affect the copy (and the copy still deals 14 damage).




So what your saying is my sequence of casting/activation is twisted by casting fireball first and not using chandras ability and that I must activate chandras ability first to get 2 14 dmg fireballs for 15 mana and -2 loyalty?




Yes or no??
It took you a month to come back and ask for confirmation on a question that was already answered definitively?

Anyway, if you read what everyone said carefully, you would already know that the answer is "yes."  Chandra, the Firebrand's loyalty ability must be used before you cast a spell, or else you won't get a copy of said spell.  You know, exactly as the post you quoted says.

Fireball, Cancel and most importantly Chandra, the Firebrand




A planeswalker's loyalty ability can only be activated at "instant speed". You can't use Chandra's ability in response to Cancel, so you must let Cancel counter Fireball (sending it to the graveyard) so you don't have anything to copy with Chandra. You don't even get a 0-damage Fireball, you don't get any fireball at all.



Chandra's -2 ability says "When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn...", so you must use Chandra's ability first, and then you cast (play) Fireball. If you do so, countering the original Fireball will not affect the copy (and the copy still deals 14 damage).




So what your saying is my sequence of casting/activation is twisted by casting fireball first and not using chandras ability and that I must activate chandras ability first to get 2 14 dmg fireballs for 15 mana and -2 loyalty?




Yes or no??



Yes, you have to activate the ability first,  as was said several times more than a month ago.  Example:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />So what your saying is my requence of casting/activation is twisted by casting firball first and not using chandras ability and that I must activate chandras ability first to get 2 14 dmg fireballs for 15 mana and -2 loyalty?

 
Yes, that ability copies the next one you cast, not a previous one you cast.