Cycling Cards/mechanics out

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Hi guys, made an account just to write my piece.

I stepped out of magic for a while, back when planeswalkers were introduced/ I just didnt really like them. After a while i came back and seen they were still running around and i have been playing with them for a while now. I still do not like them.

To me they are like glorified enchantments. I kind of wish they would cycle out like set mechanics. yeh they were novel for a time, now im just sick of looking at them. I completely understand that some players absolutely love them and want them and look for them and collect them like golden eggs but i felt that same way about cards with cycling and kicker and eventually those had to go.

I dont really feel like i need to argue why i dislike them so much. im sure its been done before by very articulate people with good points but i just want my voice heard as an old magic player. one of the things that kept me into magic during previous sets was knowing that if something was really annoying that maybe next set i wouldnt have to see it(like affinity for example and the tribal set didnt really suit my tastes), but it seems like this annoyance is here to stay and unfortunately i think im just gonna take a break from it again.

If anyone responds to this please dont flame im not trying to attack people who do like them or determined to make me see the light, I just want to let the company know there are some players who would like a more traditional style of magic without this oddly placed card type thrown into the  mix.
Well, look at it this way: they're mythic rare, so the chances of seeing one in a game are neglicible.
Even at mythic raririty any FNM i go to im sitting across from one and i gotta draw out the game swinging to get rid of the counters on it.
Oh, you're playing constructed?

Then yeah, you're gonna face cards you don't like. Not much that can be done about it, I'm afraid =/
I didn't understand the title but I thought the thread had to do with cycling. >>

They're just a new card type (not mechanic, that's why they keep doing it; also, they're really popular). Most decks have some cards of each card type, that's why many decks have a few planeswalkers, but many don't need them. On the other hand, the way they work is very original (they go up and down as you choose, and your opponent can interact by attacking them or dealing them noncombat damage), they provide characters that can transcend blocks(and that people can look up to and recognize, they only need to be about 5 cards a block, they pull a lot of a set's focus.

In the past, I've heard people saying that planeswalkers are broken, that there aren't enough ways to remove them, and that they shouldn't all be mythic. But the vast majority were thinking the idea was cool, they loved playing it for the first time, and they think games where they get to dominate or activate an awesome ability like "Destroy all lands target player controls" is memorable.

Why don't you like planeswalkers? Since you haven't given a reason, I'd say you just find them a bit alien, given that you started playing Magic and stopped when they weren't around. 
well i didnt want to just list reasons why i was for or against them i wanted to avoid a "i hate planeswalkers because of X" thread. and just let wizards know that there are some players that would like to see something rotate out. tribal theme really isnt a mechanic but that set was cycled out, imagine if every set after that was tribal themed, or every set was monocolored themed or pie shift themed, something you didnt really carefor in every set forever in the game just seems disappointing.

i understand there are lots of reasons some people love planeswalkers, but i just dont. i dont find them original or clever in anyways. to me they are just a glorified enchantments with counters. in fact you could make enchantments with a little bit modified wording to do exactly what planeswalkers do.  i find them an unecessary card type that is just uninteresting.

i was hoping in future sets i wouldnt have to see them anymore but unfortunately im pretty sure players like me arent in geat enough numbers or vocal enough to have wizards go a few sets without them anytime soon.

Magic has enough card types that interact with each other greatly and planeswalkers just dont interact with the other card types enough, especially with much older cards. I dont think another card type is really warranted for something that has abilities for removal of counters. it just feels really clunky and out of place with the rest of magic to me.

At first i thought that i just didnt play with them enough but ive played with em and against them since coming back and i still feel the same. when someone pulls out a planeswalker to me it feels like going "ok set aside our mtg game to play this other mini game."

*edit: Im really sorry if the title seemed misleading, i meant cycling out as in the next set replaces the old set etc which is actually what cycling means hence why it was on cycling cards. maybe i should have used rotating out. 
There are many ways to change cards into other things. Most mechanics, for example, can be done as kicker or split cards, at least in general idea.

This general idea for planeswalkers is that they are allies that help you. They can cast "spells", but they will ditch you if you don't protect them. You don't need to sink your mana for them, they have their own.

In game terms, I wouldn't call them enchantments. They are more like old "mono" artifacts, in that they only have one use a turn.
However, your choices (adding or removing this many counters) affect what you can do later for them. At least in Magic, there is no clean way to do that, so you don't see that in other card types. In fact, few things in Magic last more than a turn, and if they do they probably use counters and are clunky. But in planeswalkers you can save awkward and long lines like "Put two counters on Sorin Markov:" or "Remove nine counters from Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker:" because it's very integrated into their idea. Planeswalkers have loyalty, and it continuously goes up and down, reducing the amount of cards left to draw off a Jace Beleren or slowly threatening to sacrifice half your permanents with Liliana of the Veil.
The other aspect of planeswalkers that I think makes them very different from whatever mechanic they could have done is the fact that you can attack them or deal them damage. More cards have been printed that destroy artifacts and enchantments, but many decks won't have them ready. However, most decks have ways to deal damage, either in combat or not (of course, this is why control decks have a hard time against planeswalkers). This means that the other player using a planeswalker becomes not like a minigame trying to figure out if it's best to attack who, but like there's another threat, like another opponent, that you need to stop, too.

I think planeswalkers add something very original to the game, without the need to make many cards of them, so I think they're okay existing. Maybe you don't like the card type idea, but what I'm trying to tell you is that it's not so simple as an enchantment, nor a clunky way to move counters up and down.

EDIT: By the way, I don't think Wizards reads these forums. But you can email Mark Rosewater to have your issue heard.

In game terms, I wouldn't call them enchantments. They are more like old "mono" artifacts, in that they only have one use a turn.
However, your choices (adding or removing this many counters) affect what you can do later for them. At least in Magic, there is no clean way to do that, so you don't see that in other card types. In fact, few things in Magic last more than a turn, and if they do they probably use counters and are clunky. But in planeswalkers you can save awkward and long lines like "Put two counters on Sorin Markov:" or "Remove nine counters from Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker:" because it's very integrated into their idea. Planeswalkers have loyalty, and it continuously goes up and down, reducing the amount of cards left to draw off a Jace Beleren or slowly threatening to sacrifice half your permanents with Liliana of the Veil.


This is, to me, the main reason why Planeswalkers are important: they are very elegant from an information-conveyance perspective. There's a reason why so many players love designing Planeswalkers. You can cram an absolutely staggering amount of storyline and character information in a very small space through mechanics alone.

The only other mechanics that I think are comparable for the sheer compression of data, and flavor data in particular, are the Transformers--which are essentially two cards in one (plus the pseudo-gutter of the actual flip, which is very important)--and the Levelers--which similarly use design tools to provide players with a visual shorthand for what the cards do.

Getting rid of Planeswalkers means getting rid of one of the single most powerful storytelling tools in the arsenal of R&D. Getting rid of them would be like getting rid of flying--it's too fundamental for the game from a flavor perspective for them to ditch. I would even argue that the Transformers should have become an evergreen part of the game as well, due to their innate economy of storytelling. But if we can only have one, it's pretty much got to be Planeswalkers.

And, you know, mythics sell packs. So... there's that too. I just tend to look at things from an artistic perspective rather than an economic one. [shrug] 
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I kind of wish they would cycle out like set mechanics.

Actually, that's basically what the original plan was--R&D was going to make planeswalkers a fairly rare thing that didn't show up in every set, or even necessarily in every block. (Though they probably wouldn't have waited long enough for all of them to rotate out of Standard every time.) From their first appearance in Lorwyn, they didn't show up again until Shards of Alara, and then Alara Reborn didn't have any either.

But Planeswalkers proved so incredibly popular that R&D decided that they should have at least one per set--around five per block--and that's what they've stuck with since. And most players are happy enough with it that I don't think that they're going to move away from that formula any time soon.

to me they are just a glorified enchantments with counters. in fact you could make enchantments with a little bit modified wording to do exactly what planeswalkers do.

Strictly speaking from a mechanical perspective, that's true--everything that can be done on a planeswalker could potentially be done using enchantments. (With the caveat that it'd take a lot of words and micro-text to achieve.)

...But really, the same is true for all the card types. Sorceries and instants are the same thing, separated only by a line of text telling you when you can cast one as opposed to the other. Artifacts are exactly the same as enchantments--the quite literally only real difference between them is their flavor. And even lands and creatures are just glorified enchantments with a bunch of extra text restricting how they work.

At first i thought that i just didnt play with them enough but ive played with em and against them since coming back and i still feel the same. when someone pulls out a planeswalker to me it feels like going "ok set aside our mtg game to play this other mini game."

That's true; it's actually intended that planeswalkers act to warp the flow of the game that way--all of a sudden instead of playing the game on the terms you're used to you also have to worry about this other battlefront that will make you lose if you don't find a way to deal with it.

But if you think about it, many, many kinds of cards in Magic force you to play little minigames to deal with them because if you don't they'll kill you. Like, say...creatures. Here you and your opponent are, slinging instants and sorceries and enchantments and artifacts around, but then your opponent drops a Hill Giant. And suddenly the game changes, because instead of just worrying about the spells your opponent is casting right now you also have to worry about that Giant, which will kill you singlehandedly if you don't find a way to deal with it. I mean, how fair is that? Your opponent can drop just one card, and it'll completely change the flow of the game because now you have to play the minigame of "How do I stop Hill Giant from killing me?" as well as stopping your opponent from killing you himself.

Or cards like Millstone. So you've dealt with that Hill Giant and the rest of the creatures your opponent has dropped and your life total's stable and you feel pretty good, but all of a sudden your opponent drops Millstone, and now you have to set aside your existing game because you also need to play the minigame of "How do I stop this thing from running me out of cards?"

Or cards like Helix Pinnacle. Now the minigame is "How do I stop my opponent from generating enough mana to hit 100 counters?"


So, yes. Planeswalkers create a minigame. But so does everything else. One reason you might be having so much trouble with this is that you're thinking that this minigame "isn't Magic". But it is. It's just a new kind of mini-game among the thousands that already existed--a minigame you're not used to playing, don't find comfortable, and may not be good at. Just like Equipment, Planeswalkers aren't going anywhere any time soon. And the reason why is partly the exact same minigame you dislike about them. It just adds too much strategic depth to the game for R&D to be willing to cut themselves off from it.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I was actually somewhat surprised to see "mini-game" used in this thread as a negative quality. It seems to me that one of the most fascinating things about Magic is its potential to become other games. At the far end you have things like Commander or Planechase, but there have always been cards that existed fundamentally to rewrite the nature of the game in a way that felt titanic and exciting. That's why so many cards from, say, Alpha to Mirage had totally unreadable microtext--they were trying to change the very nature of the game in a way that goes far beyond just the normal minor changes that occur when, to use Zammm's excellent example, someone plays Hill Giant.

Planeswalkers just happen to be one of the most successful incarnations of that basic urge. 
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Well, I don't love them.

The first planeswalker had several balance issues and that's a simple reason why they are so successful. Another reason is that "designing cards on your own" seems to attract a certain player type. The most planeswalker I've seen don't feel flavorful to me. They are just a bunch of effects added together on a single card.... and those planeswalker who can negate at least on threat on the table are the one that see competetive play.

If I look at Jace Beleren. It combines card draw, another card draw and even more.... card dr-- ... I mean mill!

Does this create a flavor in your opinion? - That's a real question, because I don't get it.

The same is true for Chandra, Liliana and co.

Did Liliana of the Dark Realms wade through swamps, inhaling too much of the rotting smell? To me, it's just a random "what do I like to see in my deck" and combine it on a single card.

And please, please stop printing the Xth version of Jace. It feels so silly in my opinion. Identification and stereotyping is ok, but this.....

If you compare Magic with writing a comic or manga, the planeswalker are the colored "big" picture with mirrorfinish. You won't get me buying the 10th magazine of spiderman just because you reprint a new photo everytime. You would get me, if the story behind that hero is great.

Let planeswalker be visible on non-planeswalker cards, let those card tell the story and create a new villain every other set.

Liliana of the Dark Realms is a very bad example. That was a flavor mistake--the card has nothing to do with her established character, and Brady Dommermuth has acknowledged that in the future they need to portray the characters more consistently.

Cheza, have you read any of the novels? 
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Let planeswalker be visible on non-planeswalker cards, let those card tell the story and create a new villain every other set.

Planeswalkers are visible on non-planeswalker cards on occasion--the most recent appearances are Ral Zarek and Vraska the Unseen appearing in Gatecrash on Homing Lightning and Killing Glare, respectively.

And they've tried letting the cards tell the story. For over four years, the events of the Weatherlight saga were conveyed on the cards fairly directly--in some cases it was possible to lay out the cards to depict the story plot point by plot point. But cards aren't a very good storytelling medium, because you can't control what order players see them in. So R&D decided to let the cards set the stage, as is their strength, and tell the actual story elsewhere.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Let planeswalker be visible on non-planeswalker cards, let those card tell the story and create a new villain every other set.

Planeswalkers are visible on non-planeswalker cards on occasion--the most recent appearances are Ral Zarek and Vraska the Unseen appearing in Gatecrash on Homing Lightning and Killing Glare, respectively.

And they've tried letting the cards tell the story. For over four years, the events of the Weatherlight saga were conveyed on the cards fairly directly--in some cases it was possible to lay out the cards to depict the story plot point by plot point. But cards aren't a very good storytelling medium, because you can't control what order players see them in. So R&D decided to let the cards set the stage, as is their strength, and tell the actual story elsewhere.

In fairness, they seem to be experimenting in slight ways with this model again, but it's probably more comparable to the broad storytelling of Mirage and Visions and even Weatherlight than Tempest or Masques.
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i miss the days when planeswalkers like urza were vague hints on the bottom of magic cards. i always imagined that we were the actually planes walkers casting spells. i know im not going to win here im pretty sure they are here to stay and too many players would throw themselves at wizards if they werent printed for a few sets, unfortunately i am not here to say. im just gonna take a break from the game again till something other than multicolor gives me enough interest to come back.
Well, they do still do that to a degree.

Nicol Bolas' return was hinted at in Shards of Alara.
Ral Zarek was spoiled over two years before he was printed in Duels of the Planeswalkers, and then had a variety of cameo apperances before his actual card showed up in Dragon's Maze.  

I do agree that from a meta-narrative standpoint, Planeswalker cards are a bit more common than I personally care for, but Magic is first and foremost a game that needs to be profitable.
Planeswalkers are profitable, and as long as they continue to be, they will continue to see print.  
i always imagined that we were the actually planes walkers casting spells.



You are. That's the entire foundation of Magic: The Gathering.

The addition of other Planeswalkers that you can call on to help in your battle doesn't make you any less of a Planeswalker.
Liliana of the Dark Realms is a very bad example. That was a flavor mistake--the card has nothing to do with her established character, and Brady Dommermuth has acknowledged that in the future they need to portray the characters more consistently.

Cheza, have you read any of the novels? 


Yes.

Nonetheless, most planeswalker aren't that great. I agree with KeiSouthCroix. I also miss the days of Urza, etc.. F.e. I'm glad that she never printed a Xantcha, Serra or Urza himself. I found it much more flavorful to see the cards reflecting the story.

@ zammm:
I know that they made hints and even created cards like Chandra's Phoenix. But that's not what I wish they would do. Mmmh... hard to explain. The best might be to compare it with the planes. I like it that these cards form a seperate deck... That's why I'm still convinced that - at least for me - planeswalker were better printed similar to planes, but as some sort of leveler that I can CONJURE to the battlefield.
I don't like creatures, can we have a block without them?
blah blah metal lyrics


If I look at Jace Beleren. It combines card draw, another card draw and even more.... card dr-- ... I mean mill!

Does this create a flavor in your opinion? - That's a real question, because I don't get it.




He's a mind-mage. The typical blue mage. Either you draw a card, or both players do and he goes up. Going -1, -1, +2, rinse and repeat really gives a "sculpting" feel. And if you want? You can even erase your opponent's mind.

I find the flavor to be quite impressive on Jace Beleren.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

Liliana of the Dark Realms is a very bad example. That was a flavor mistake--the card has nothing to do with her established character, and Brady Dommermuth has acknowledged that in the future they need to portray the characters more consistently.

Cheza, have you read any of the novels? 


Yes.

Nonetheless, most planeswalker aren't that great. I agree with KeiSouthCroix. I also miss the days of Urza, etc.. F.e. I'm glad that she never printed a Xantcha, Serra or Urza himself. I found it much more flavorful to see the cards reflecting the story.

@ zammm:
I know that they made hints and even created cards like Chandra's Phoenix. But that's not what I wish they would do. Mmmh... hard to explain. The best might be to compare it with the planes. I like it that these cards form a seperate deck... That's why I'm still convinced that - at least for me - planeswalker were better printed similar to planes, but as some sort of leveler that I can CONJURE to the battlefield.


Is what you're trying to say that you prefer a more old school flavour in your MTG? More of a background story played out in the clash of epic, never fully revealed figures, versus the current arrangement with down to earth, relatable planeswalkers more at the mercy of the story than dominating it?
I guess I can understand that. 
He's a mind-mage. The typical blue mage. Either you draw a card, or both players do and he goes up. Going -1, -1, +2, rinse and repeat really gives a "sculpting" feel. And if you want? You can even erase your opponent's mind.

I find the flavor to be quite impressive on Jace Beleren.



Not to mention the mechanics create an internal political game. Will he Vizkopa Guildmage/Bloodchief Ascension/other "mill is life loss" card me? If he's +2ing a lot, probably. But I can benefit until then.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
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