Big Game Hunter

Other than Bounty Hunter can anyone suggest a prestiege class for a Big Game Hunter / Sharpshooter style character?
What system are you looking at?  The RCR or SAGA?  I'm just asking because I think I've seen both a "Sharpshooter" and a "Big Game Hunter" PrC for the RCR.

Now my question to you is "what do you expect for your Big Game Hunter/Sharpshooter character?"  The CT-Killer often used as a Sniper utilizes Bounty Hunter and Gunslinger.  A big part of me also wants to say that the Vanguard class (CWCG) can also be used for a hunter type player.

The real questions isn't what PrCs we can suggest for your character but rather what do you want for your character so we can just find the ways to get it.  Although many game mechanics have some fluff associated with them you can just throw out all of that provided the game mechanics provide you with the things you are looking for. 
I was looking the SAGA system.

Was there ever any conversion of classes and PrC from RCR to Saga edition?
The Assassin PrC in Scum and Villiainy has some great Sniper talents in it's Assassin tree that will fit in with a Hunter-style character. The same book has the sniper blaster rifle as well, very good for hunting, along with different mods to give the gun better sniping ability (is Double Trigger, etc.)

The Carbineer tree for Gunslingers in Legacy Era Campaign Guide allows you to customize for using rifles as your main gun. Very good talents there. Some good weapon choices as well like the hunting blaster carbine.

Scout and it Awareness tree, for Acute Senses and Keen Shot (Ignore concealment penalties when shooting, but not total concealment) are a must. It's the class made for tracking and hunting.

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I was looking the SAGA system.

Was there ever any conversion of classes and PrC from RCR to Saga edition?



Not that I know of. Most of Saga's PrCs are better from RCR PrCs I've seen except for all the passive bonuses some of them gave out (most of which have no need anyway in Saga)
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The Assassin PrC in Scum and Villiainy has some great Sniper talents in it's Assassin tree that will fit in with a Hunter-style character. The same book has the sniper blaster rifle as well, very good for hunting, along with different mods to give the gun better sniping ability (is Double Trigger, etc.)

The Carbineer tree for Gunslingers in Legacy Era Campaign Guide allows you to customize for using rifles as your main gun. Very good talents there. Some good weapon choices as well like the hunting blaster carbine.

Scout and it Awareness tree, for Acute Senses and Keen Shot (Ignore concealment penalties when shooting, but not total concealment) are a must. It's the class made for tracking and hunting.


This. Don't forget class does not equal character concept. Just because a character has classes in Assassin PrC doesn't mean he is an actual "Assassin."

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I was looking the SAGA system.

Was there ever any conversion of classes and PrC from RCR to Saga edition?

In all honesty I never say a need to convert classes or PrCs from the RCR to SAGA.  Maybe there were some concepts that could be used to create a talent tree but in all honesty SAGA doesn't need more classes and probably could get by fine with fewer of them if some talent trees were better distributed.

As Richterbelmont actually points out and I hinted at earlier in the thread "names do NOT equal concepts."  You don't need levels in Bounty Hunter to be a bounty hunter and having levels in something with "Jedi" in the class name does NOT mean you are a jedi nor is it actually required to be a jedi.  Like I said you just need to find the game mechanics you want and figure out how to fit them together.

MasterArkaine may hint at this but I'll just say it:  PrCs are not required for great characters.  Ok, I'll admit that taking a level in a PrC typically gets you a bigger class bonus to defense but beyond that the only benefit is often one more Force Point each level.  PrCs may get "abilities" instead of Bonus Feats but feats can be as powerful even if they aren't as specialized.  Base classes and PrCs all gain talents at the same rate (on odd levels) and while some trees aren't available except through PrCs individual talents do not, and should not, need to be stronger then those you can find in base classes; don't forget that many PrCs offer access to talent trees available to base classes.
 
Thanks for the help everyone. It looks like the character will be starting off as a SCout before going onto Bounty Hunter / Gunslinger.

Having never played a Scout before I was surprised how useful their talents are and I will be looking to play them more often in the future.
Scout is one of my three favorite starting classes along with Noble and Soldier depending on what I'm going for.  As for just taking Scout before going into Bounty Hunter don't forget that you could easily do a little multiclassing if you wanted without changing your 'character' anymore then taking another level in Scout would.
 
I was looking the SAGA system.

Was there ever any conversion of classes and PrC from RCR to Saga edition?

In all honesty I never say a need to convert classes or PrCs from the RCR to SAGA.  Maybe there were some concepts that could be used to create a talent tree but in all honesty SAGA doesn't need more classes and probably could get by fine with fewer of them if some talent trees were better distributed.

As Richterbelmont actually points out and I hinted at earlier in the thread "names do NOT equal concepts."  You don't need levels in Bounty Hunter to be a bounty hunter and having levels in something with "Jedi" in the class name does NOT mean you are a jedi nor is it actually required to be a jedi.  Like I said you just need to find the game mechanics you want and figure out how to fit them together.

MasterArkaine may hint at this but I'll just say it:  PrCs are not required for great characters.  Ok, I'll admit that taking a level in a PrC typically gets you a bigger class bonus to defense but beyond that the only benefit is often one more Force Point each level.  PrCs may get "abilities" instead of Bonus Feats but feats can be as powerful even if they aren't as specialized.  Base classes and PrCs all gain talents at the same rate (on odd levels) and while some trees aren't available except through PrCs individual talents do not, and should not, need to be stronger then those you can find in base classes; don't forget that many PrCs offer access to talent trees available to base classes.
 



SteveO is right on the money here. PcRs are not a needed thing to make your concept. I had friend in one older campaign that went 12 levels into Soldier before hitting up Elite Trooper because we were able to use talents from any of the current soursebooks upto that point (Galaxy at War had just came out). He was better equiped feat wise because his was a human and was rocking 6 bonus feats from Soldier. 12 feats at level 12 was amazing.
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Scout is one of my three favorite starting classes along with Noble and Soldier depending on what I'm going for.  As for just taking Scout before going into Bounty Hunter don't forget that you could easily do a little multiclassing if you wanted without changing your 'character' anymore then taking another level in Scout would.
 



Scouts are great. Some of the best base class talents plus a great set of skills. My personal favorite, and what makes me multiclass into Scout when making a Jedi is Evasion. If you can't deflect it, why take full damage from it. Just because that trooper has a repeating blaster doesn't mean my Jedi is dead meat, it means I have more of a challenge, thats's all. 
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Scout is one of my three favorite starting classes along with Noble and Soldier depending on what I'm going for.  As for just taking Scout before going into Bounty Hunter don't forget that you could easily do a little multiclassing if you wanted without changing your 'character' anymore then taking another level in Scout would.


Scouts are great. Some of the best base class talents plus a great set of skills. My personal favorite, and what makes me multiclass into Scout when making a Jedi is Evasion. If you can't deflect it, why take full damage from it. Just because that trooper has a repeating blaster doesn't mean my Jedi is dead meat, it means I have more of a challenge, thats's all. 


I place Jedi fourth on my list of starting classes because it works great for a relatively narrow, but often powerful, band of character concepts.  Although it will cost me some hitpoints and one feat I'd rather start in Scout and then multiclass into Jedi.  The reason for that is all the additional skills a Scout starts with along with a number of useful starting feat; it does mean I spend my first level feat on Force Sensitivity and often push back taking Force Training but that is just me.  Evasion is a great talent at times but I don't like multiclassing into Scout for it because it means giving up BAB.

Scoundrel is my least favorite class to start in because of its low hp and poor BAB.  The one reason I would start in Scoundrel is when I want a mix of skills that I can't get from Scout, Noble, or Soldier without needing at least two more from another class.  I'm willing to wait for an INT boost at 4th-level if I just need one skill outside of a class's starting list.  While I don't start in it I think Scoundrel can be ok to multiclass into provided you can accept the BAB loss; you probably get Point Blank Shot and you really only lose two hitpoints but multiclassing gives you access to nearly every skill and to a number of nice talents.
SteveO, I meant that I liked to start with Scout like you do, but wrote it wrong.

I forgot an importannt talent tree from Galaxy at War: Sharpshooter tree for Gunslingers. Its basically the talent tree for would be snipers and hunters with talent that work off of precise, aimed shots. 


 
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Scout is one of my three favorite starting classes... 


Scout is not one of my favorite classes. Just out of curiosty, how would you build a level 1 scout, 25 point-buy with feat and talent that's an effective combattant?

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Scout is one of my three favorite starting classes... 


Scout is not one of my favorite classes. Just out of curiosty, how would you build a level 1 scout, 25 point-buy with feat and talent that's an effective combattant?


That's a good question because it would depend on what I'm looking for further down the road.  I may not be a fan of the "full 20-level plan" that many people like to post but I normally try working with some concept figuring I can develope it in four or five levels.

I also know I'm hard on the stats that some people post but I normally go with PB 28 instead of 25.  How I spend them will depend on what I'm going for but the minimums are usually STR 10, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 8 which just takes 16 points.  The reason you only see CON 12 is because while Shake It Off is a good feat I don't always want to invest in the Endurance Skill and I like having skill points to put other places.

As for a Scout 1 that is an "effective combatant" it may depend on what you consider effective.  I do NOT see the Scout as a big damage dealer but rather as someone who can avoid trouble better then dealing with it.  I like building my scouts so that they can handle a number of different things.

I know there's not an answer in there but I think the question is a little open ended when I generally take the first three levels of a character as a "starting" character.  Some of the feats I consider for a Scout 1 include PBS (unless I'm figuring on going into Scoundrel which I don't like doing so much), Light Armor (assuming I'll eventually want Medium armor otherwise this waits for a Soldier level),  Improved Defenses or Martial Arts I, Force Sensitivity (if I plan on a Force user), and Vehicular Combat or WP (Heavy) if I'm just looking in the SECR.
 

Actually, I was talking about a level 1 scout who was going to play at level 1 for awhile because his RPG group levels-up slowly, and would want to be able to contribute well to combat situations.

Shake It Off is one of the best features of a Scout. If you don't train in Endurance at level 1, you'll have to wait for a feat slot or level 4 odd-INT stat bump. You get lots of skills as a Scout (5+INT) so you can afford it. Ex: Initiative, Perception, Endurance, Stealth, Survival, bonus skills Pilot or Mechanics. Unfortunately, social skills will elude this character, as Deception and Persuasion are non-class skills. Acrobatics is out too.

As for damage, Rifle proficiency gives you instant access to terrific weapons.

What about your talent?

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Actually, I was talking about a level 1 scout who was going to play at level 1 for awhile because his RPG group levels-up slowly, and would want to be able to contribute well to combat situations.

Shake It Off is one of the best features of a Scout. If you don't train in Endurance at level 1, you'll have to wait for a feat slot or level 4 odd-INT stat bump. You get lots of skills as a Scout (5+INT) so you can afford it. Ex: Initiative, Perception, Endurance, Stealth, Survival, bonus skills Pilot or Mechanics. Unfortunately, social skills will elude this character, as Deception and Persuasion are non-class skills. Acrobatics is out too.

As for damage, Rifle proficiency gives you instant access to terrific weapons.

What about your talent?




Depended on my focus. I rarely start off as a scout unless its a skill/talent grab at 1st level then go into Soldier or Jedi depending on my character concept I'm running.

As for the talent, its tricky. If you are talking strictly talents from the Core Rulebook, then by far the most useful is Evasion in my mind. If you plan on staying scout for at least 2 more levels, the Acute Senses is a nice choice that leads into Keen Shot at level 3 then branch out to Soldier from there for a rifle user. Others like Improved Stealth (for a more sneaky character) that lead into Hidden Movement at level 3 are good as well.

If you have access to any and all the sourcebooks in your campaign, then there are tons of options to make a level 1 an useable character in the talents alone, but most are more specialized based on a character's role.

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Actually, I was talking about a level 1 scout who was going to play at level 1 for awhile because his RPG group levels-up slowly, and would want to be able to contribute well to combat situations.

Shake It Off is one of the best features of a Scout. If you don't train in Endurance at level 1, you'll have to wait for a feat slot or level 4 odd-INT stat bump. You get lots of skills as a Scout (5+INT) so you can afford it. Ex: Initiative, Perception, Endurance, Stealth, Survival, bonus skills Pilot or Mechanics. Unfortunately, social skills will elude this character, as Deception and Persuasion are non-class skills. Acrobatics is out too.

As for damage, Rifle proficiency gives you instant access to terrific weapons.

What about your talent?


Grr...  For a first level character the Scout should rank third or fourth when it comes to combat ability.  Obviously the Soldier should come in first and the Jedi is probably right up there.  While I'd put the Scout ahead of the Scoundrel because of the added hitpoints and rifle proficiency the Scoundrel's "free" PBS and the heavy blaster pistol make the things a bit of a toss up considering the range many SAGA encounters take place.

I will say I have an issue with "play at level 1 for a while" if that means facing a lot of combat encounters.  An individual chacter only needs to "win" over five CRs of his own level before he can level up so I have an issue accepting the idea that he will be 1st-level "for a while" unless there is a lot of non-combat stuff involved.  Now what that "non-combat" stuff is (often using skill checks of some kind) will either make the Scout very valuable or could leave it in the same spot as a Soldier if social skills are key.

Don't get me wrong, Shake It Off is a great feat to have as it will let you move up the CT and actually do something all on the same turn.  The thing about it is that in a character's long view I may want that "extra" skill a Scout gets over a Scoundrel while I may also have ability score I will value more highly than CON.  There certainly are plenty of characters where I'll try getting SIO but I will NOT let it dictate other choices I may want to make.  I will mention that when it comes to skills I'm not as big on Initaitive as many other people are; I recognize that giving up the potential +5 often means going after those other characters but as long as I can avoid a surprise Round (making Perception an important skill) I'm usually ok with that.

If you're looking for the talent a "long time" 1st-level Scout an argument could be made for just about any of them.  Just looking at the SECR you can choose talents to let you reroll Perception or Stealth as the first step into some talent trees.  I probably wouldn't take Barter (if I wanted to reroll Persuasion I'd rather have it as a class skill) but most of the other Fringer and Survivor talents could be useful to a Scout1. 
If I wanted to be a first level scout with some measure of combat effectiveeness  I'd go the "sneaky" route. Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot if I'm human. Improved Stealth. Blaster rifle w/ low light scope. Basically, sneak around, pick dudes off, and generally be a pain in the .
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141722973 wrote:
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57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
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I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I will say I have an issue with "play at level 1 for a while" if that means facing a lot of combat encounters.  An individual chacter only needs to "win" over five CRs of his own level before he can level up so I have an issue accepting the idea that he will be 1st-level "for a while" unless there is a lot of non-combat stuff involved.  Now what that "non-combat" stuff is (often using skill checks of some kind) will either make the Scout very valuable or could leave it in the same spot as a Soldier if social skills are key.

Five combat encounters should be quickly taken care of in a session or two. But unless you are playing solo, you will have to share that experience with the other players, so leveling up will be slower.

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It is just five CL 1's per player and not necessarily five combat encounters.  Frankly, if a group of four just encounters a bunch of CL 1 combats it isn't going to take much to be a "useful" combatant as  fights just boild down to "can enough of your group shoot the hostile before he can counter attack."
 

Grr...  For a first level character the Scout should rank third or fourth when it comes to combat ability.  Obviously the Soldier should come in first and the Jedi is probably right up there.  While I'd put the Scout ahead of the Scoundrel because of the added hitpoints and rifle proficiency the Scoundrel's "free" PBS and the heavy blaster pistol make the things a bit of a toss up considering the range many SAGA encounters take place.


Hmm, I think a 1st level Scout can be an effective combatant. As MasterArkaine mentioned, the Evasion talent can be a very good defensive bonus. Also, CorranHorn mentioned being a sneaky combatant. With Improved Stealth (reroll Stealth checks) or Hidden Attacker (snipe as a swift action), along with the Rifle proficiency, you can do some serious damage while sneaking around. Pump up the DEX as high as you can, throw in Point Blank Shot and/or Desperate Gambit and you have yourself an unlikely contender.


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Grr...  For a first level character the Scout should rank third or fourth when it comes to combat ability.  Obviously the Soldier should come in first and the Jedi is probably right up there.  While I'd put the Scout ahead of the Scoundrel because of the added hitpoints and rifle proficiency the Scoundrel's "free" PBS and the heavy blaster pistol make the things a bit of a toss up considering the range many SAGA encounters take place.


Hmm, I think a 1st level Scout can be an effective combatant. As MasterArkaine mentioned, the Evasion talent can be a very good defensive bonus. Also, CorranHorn mentioned being a sneaky combatant. With Improved Stealth (reroll Stealth checks) or Hidden Attacker (snipe as a swift action), along with the Rifle proficiency, you can do some serious damage while sneaking around. Pump up the DEX as high as you can, throw in Point Blank Shot and/or Desperate Gambit and you have yourself an unlikely contender.





Agreed. What it comes down to is that the Scout isn't made for the same role as the soldier-blazing away on autofire and blasting enemies every turn from a few squares away, etc. That dosen't mean it can't be effective.

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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
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And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Hmm, I think a 1st level Scout can be an effective combatant. As MasterArkaine mentioned, the Evasion talent can be a very good defensive bonus. Also, CorranHorn mentioned being a sneaky combatant. With Improved Stealth (reroll Stealth checks) or Hidden Attacker (snipe as a swift action), along with the Rifle proficiency, you can do some serious damage while sneaking around. Pump up the DEX as high as you can, throw in Point Blank Shot and/or Desperate Gambit and you have yourself an unlikely contender.




Now you've got me questioning things.  I guess when I read "Scout is not one of my favorite classes. Just out of curiosty, how would you build a level 1 scout, 25 point-buy with feat and talent that's an effective combattant?" I was under the assumption that you don't like the Scout because it doesn't make a great warrior at first level.  I know I often think of the Scout as the 'light' warrior's class and one that you'd start in if you wanted to be a Special Forces type.  Of course there are lots of types of Special Forces so even that is misleading.
 
Hmm, I think a 1st level Scout can be an effective combatant. As MasterArkaine mentioned, the Evasion talent can be a very good defensive bonus. Also, CorranHorn mentioned being a sneaky combatant. With Improved Stealth (reroll Stealth checks) or Hidden Attacker (snipe as a swift action), along with the Rifle proficiency, you can do some serious damage while sneaking around. Pump up the DEX as high as you can, throw in Point Blank Shot and/or Desperate Gambit and you have yourself an unlikely contender.




Now you've got me questioning things.  I guess when I read "Scout is not one of my favorite classes. Just out of curiosty, how would you build a level 1 scout, 25 point-buy with feat and talent that's an effective combattant?" I was under the assumption that you don't like the Scout because it doesn't make a great warrior at first level.  I know I often think of the Scout as the 'light' warrior's class and one that you'd start in if you wanted to be a Special Forces type.  Of course there are lots of types of Special Forces so even that is misleading.
 

Basically, what I was asking for was, "How do you make a good level 1 combat scout?" The question's pretty much been answered.

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Off topic for a second, I just have to say, the intensity of the conversations we have in these threads in insane but awesome at the same time. Great to see people still much invested in a RPG that been discontinued by its manufacturer almost 3 years years ago.Cool 
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"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)