A few things id like to see improved upon

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Theres a near endless amount of design space in this game, and yet it seems certain abilities are printed so seldom, as interesting as they may be.

Here are just a few of them:

1) Stifle Effects

Stifle, trickbind, squelch, interdict, voidslime, and bind are a few examples of these type of effects that counter activated and/or triggered abilities, yet there aren't many. The last one was printed in Time Spiral, over 5 years ago.

With the rise in creatures with great enter the battlefield abilities and triggered abilities, I would like to see more of these stifle effects. I would also like to see the effect move more into green, which it has been on exactly two cards.

2) Redirection effects

We get these a bit more often than stifle effects, yet they are almost never playable enough. I would also like to see these primarily in red, not blue. Blue likes to put down spells, red likes to steal them, which is more in line with temporal stealing abilities.

I would also like to see redirection of abilities, such as Reroute but more aggresively costed. "change the target of target spell or activated ability" would be nice to see.

3) Mana producing spells

Pyretic Ritual and the like. We got two in Innistrad block, but none in ravnica block aside from Burning-Tree Emissary which isn't the same as it doesnt give you more than what you put into it.

It would be nice to see this more frequently in red, as it exemplifies the color well.

4) More aggressively costed green fatties

Green is supposed to be the fatty color, yet its fatties tend to pale in comparison to ones of other colors. Give green dudes some wicked new keyword (aside from hexproof) and slap it on a game changing 5 or 6 drop.

5) Build around artifact and enchantments

Birthing Pod was awesome, as was Trading Post, but aside from that there weren't too many recent build-around me cards that saw much play. I feel as though enchantments especially have not been used for a great while. Perhaps an enchantment themed block is finally on the horizon?

Lastly

6) Better monocolored support

I cant even remember the last time a monocolored deck has placed well in a competitive tournament. Certainly, the amount of great dual lands and the lack of land destruction has to do with this, but it can also be solved by printing more cards that care about monocolored in a way.


Those are my points of discussion, and I hope we get at least a little bit for each of these categories in upcoming sets.


1) Stifle Effects

Agreed on all counts.

2) Redirection effects

Agreed. Red needs more tricks
 
3) Mana producing spells

We're actually discussing that a few threads down. The problem with these is that when they're good, they're banworthy.

4) More aggressively costed green fatties


AGREED.
Green should have the best fatties. Period. Not just in limited.

5) Build around artifact and enchantments

We get plenty of these. Red almost always has a "shock when you play into block mechanic A" enchantment pretty much every block.
MaRo has said that many of these Johnny cards get killed in internal polls because they're unpopular. 
He personally fights for them whenever they show up in these polls but he's only one man. 

6) Better monocolored support


We do get these relatively frequently.
Recently Mutilate for example. I'd say the problem is probably a development one if these aren't "good enough".
Also, we are in the middle of a gold block, so there's not going to be much of this until M14 at the earliest.  
I'm not sure about Stifle and Redirection effects. Those are very narrow, and you can't really make many different cards like that.

Rituals, as HairlessThoctar said, are being discussed in another thread.

They've been doing a lot of work with green fatties. In Limited, we've had Alpha Tyrranax, Kindercatch, Vorstclaw, Quilled Slagwurm, all of which cost about than what we'd have seen a few years back. In competitive Constructed, we've had Armada Wurm, Thragtusk, Craterhoof Behemoth, Wolfir Silverheart, Vorapede, Primeval Titan, Terastodon, Avenger of Zendikar. In more casual environments, Giant Adephage, Sylvan Primordial, Soul of the Harvest, Essence of the Wild, Hornet Queen, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Liege of the Tangle, Gaea's Revenge, Pelakka Wurm and Terra Stomper are actual threats.

Build-around-me cards are not going to be that many, but they will continue to show up, and if they are interesting, they might be pushed like Birthing Pod.

Monocolored-rewarding cards many times suck. However, we do see monocolored decks from time to time, the most popular being monored. And every now and then we have a Phyrexian Obliterator that's good enough to be an incentive if you're going for a monocolored deck.
What I would rather like to see isn't incentives to stay monocolored, but incentives to avoid splashing colors. It's strategically efficient, but it doesn't feel classy.
1) Stifle - The design space here feels rather limited; not so much by the confines of what you can staple onto it, but in respect to it using up the same space as counterspells. There's only so much space per set for counterspell effects. Only 25 of the 1392 cards in Standard counter spells. Ravnica has a lot more than Innistrad, which was skimming the barrel as far as that effect goes. In the end, counter spells are just more versatile than counter abilities. This effect also tends to be considered a "higher rarity" item as it has a few greater complications and doesn't lend itself well to limited. That said, I agree we should see it more often. Once a block could be neat and not interfere with things too much.

2) Redirection - This has the same issue as above. In truth, redirection has a limited scope. It never works when only a single target is present, misses out on every nontargeted effect in the game, and has few designs with greater appeal than general countering. There's a real reason these things gets made less: there's less you can do with them. Again, I agree that seeing one or so a block could work well, but beyond that, the game just doesn't care to support them in higher frequencies. The numbers WOTC uses on these two is low, but ultimately fine compared to what the game needs.

3) Rituals - How many of these do you want exactly? It's been well perceived that ritual effects need good restrictions to be fun but not create degenerate play. The last thing WOTC wants is solitaire play in Magic. You can argue that Geist of Saint Traft creates similar cases, and I agree to a point, but nowhere near the level that a spell based combo deck does. We're still in an age where they're reworking rituals. The creature restriction seems like the new standard: Geosurge, Brood Birthing, Infernal Plunge, and Battle Hymn are all nice additions to the ritual family, if completely different in style than we were once used to. I agree that it's a flavorful tool for red to access, and I'd even like to see (as apparently I'm repeating over and over) one or so a block. But I'd also like for WOTC to figure out the bounds of rituals so they can produce interesting ones that aren't too good or too nerfed. (Battle Hymn is an excellent ritual; very interactive, tons of potential, good middling power level.)

4) Green Fatties - Is this really a problem? It's always felt to me that the strategies of other colors allow for their fatties to outclass greens based on deck power, not card-to-card. Green's range is tricky. Whereas red can just slam with creatures and burn face, green has to go over the top either with might or pump. How often are green ramp decks good? When they are, green fatties usually are as well. Of course, this is for Standard. If we look at limited, green seems just as or even more fine. I guess I'm just not getting exactly what's up here. Care to share examples?

5) Build-Around - I can always use more of these. Even moreso, I think Magic needs more engine fodder rather than engines. Cards like Doomed Traveler are simple and efficient at accomplishing a variety of tasks, can go into a myriad of decks, and are just a ton of fun to play with. More little cards that support tons of themes make it easier for build-around-me cards to actually work. Why the hell did they give us Clock of Omens in M13? So it could play around with Scars for a whole 3 months? I love the card, but they could have given us some with a year's worth of use instead. (I realize Gilded Lotus is in M13 as well, but there's no support.)

6)  Mono - Multicolor is popular. It also gives more options to Magic, creating greater deck variety. Those two goods outweigh the benefits on mono-color. The last good mono-color decks was zombies. Even then with prohibitively costed cards like Geralf's Messenger, Falkenrath Noble eventually became part of the deck. More colors just means more options. Because of that, mono-color should be the less common result. And when multicolor sets are prevalent, mono-color just aint gonna happen, and that's moreso how the players want it. They do support mono-color, just no to the point where the game becomes too insular to run colors alongside each other. Open formats are generally more interesting in that manner.
4) More aggressively costed green fatties

Green is supposed to be the fatty color, yet its fatties tend to pale in comparison to ones of other colors. Give green dudes some wicked new keyword (aside from hexproof) and slap it on a game changing 5 or 6 drop.


I don't agree with this. We've recently had Wolfir Silverheart and Thragtusk, which are ridicolously undercosted. So undercosted in fact, that they make other aggressively costed green creatures like Deadbridge Goliath and Vorapede look not so impressive.

(Battle Hymn is an excellent ritual; very interactive, tons of potential, good middling power level.)


I like battle hymn, and tried to play it in a Burn at the Stake deck, but it's too slow. It should have really costed .

The last good mono-color decks was zombies. Even then with prohibitively costed cards like Geralf's Messenger, Falkenrath Noble eventually became part of the deck. More colors just means more options.


He meant Falkenrath Aristocrat.

I also enjoy mono color, especially of the black variety, but with the fixing we have in this ravnica block, splashing a 2nd color is way too easy. Conley Woods played an almost monoblack Crypt Ghast -> Griselbrand deck in the last pro-tour (leading to a solid 14th place, nontheless) and he splashed Dreadbore and Rakdos's Return off of Blood Crypts and Dragonskull Summits. When splashing enables you to do something your deck wouldn't be able to do at almost no cost, there aren't any good arguments against it.

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Gold is very popular, and the pendulum towards multicolour happens to be pretty high at the moment, but it'll swing back. Zendikar had a bunch of monocoloured decks, and plenty of people played monogreen or monoblack infect.

There's always room for new variations on redirect or stifle effects. I still love Willbender, and would love to see more cards like that turn up at random places in modern sets.  
Perhaps the nonbasic lands have been too good lately. I wish they would power down the strength of these lands in future sets, or decrease the amount in standard.

Currently in standard, we have 10 shocklands, 10 checklands (glacial fortress), and 10 guildgates. In a two-color deck you can run 12 lands that produce 2 colors.

And that's only standard. I remember in the older days you only had maybe one set of dual lands per standard, which made monocolored decks more popular.
Or they could stop ruining land destruction.

#OccupyStoneRain
Or they could stop ruining land destruction.

#OccupyStoneRain

That I would like to see come back. Just give me plain ole Stone Rain for nonbasics only and I'll be happy.
Land Destruction still isn't fun to play against.

Tectonic Edge in the coreset would be nice to have, as it would also improve monocolor. Ghost Quarter is almost good enough to run.
Land Destruction still isn't fun to play against.

Tectonic Edge in the coreset would be nice to have, as it would also improve monocolor. Ghost Quarter is almost good enough to run.



Neither are counterspells or discard, but they are still vital cogs in the clockwork being that is Magic.
I'm not asking for a standard where I can play this

4x Stone Rain
4x Molten Rain
4x Pillage
4x Rain of Tears


Although, I might enjoy that...

I'm asking for land destruction that is good enough to justify the continued existence of cards with "Destroy target land" on them.
Every strategy needs counter strategies and greedy manabases are no exception.

I'm not asking for a standard where I can play this

4x Stone Rain
4x Molten Rain
4x Pillage
4x Rain of Tears


Although, I might enjoy that...


I have this on MTGO. It aways wins by turn five.

Just reprint Blood Moon, I'll be plenty happy.
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oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
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On Stifle effects; These are very complicted. You can't print them an common. stifle itself should be in modern.

On Monocolor; Monoblack control just placed at PT GTC. Monored Naya is popular. These decks only support a couple off-color cards, despite the mulicolor emphasis currently. What more do you want in this block?
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57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
On Stifle effects; These are very complicted. You can't print them an common. stifle itself should be in modern.

On Monocolor; Monoblack control just placed at PT GTC. Monored Naya is popular. These decks only support a couple off-color cards, despite the mulicolor emphasis currently. What more do you want in this block?

What makes Stifle effects more complicated than counterspells?

The last countering abilities card we got was Torpor Orb, which was actually quite powerful. We need more cards that, if not countering abilities, shut them off.
@Stifle:
No. I wouldn't like that. They are hard to understand (can you stifle graft f.e.) and we have Pithing Needle already.

@Redirection:
Well, there was adiscussion about redirection and spell-copy a few years ago and I stated that red should have copy effects (like Fork, whereas blue should have redirection). Right now, it's the status quo.

My argumentation was and is:
Flavor-wise: To redirect a spell to a new target, you have to be prepared and precise and both attributes don't really fit to red.

Mechanical: A creature is a threat. A Terror is an answer to this threat. A Redirection spell is an answer to this answer.... so it's a very reactive and situational effect that ought be avoided in general... but especially at red.

Back then, I was a bit fooled by existing cards and said that blue should have redirection spells instead... it felt too much like a "gain control of target spell" effect. Right now, I believe that black would be the best choice instead. It doesn't satisfy my control-freak radar enough to be blue and it feels guileful to steal a Giant Growth.

@ Mana-producing spells:
I like these spells a lot, but they are hard to balance. My perfect red deck would run a red version of Future Sight or Recycle, many Rituals and a lot of burn spells. It would feel so free and evil at the same time, like a vulcanic eruption or apocalypse, once I got this engine to work.

So maybe R&D should consider an additional restriction what to cast with Rituals in general (f.e. only red spells, only cmcX spells, etc.)

@ green fatties:
No. I'd rather like to see green lifelink.... a green Sphinx of the Steel Wind

@ Monocolored
That's a complete discussion on it's own

@
Land Destruction still isn't fun to play against.

Tectonic Edge in the coreset would be nice to have, as it would also improve monocolor. Ghost Quarter is almost good enough to run.



Actually, from my experience with it a lot of decks are greedy enough that Ghost Quarter is a Strip Mine. If there was any meta for it to shine it would be this one.
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Stifle won't be reprinted in modern because it's a stone rain against fetchlands.
Stifle won't be reprinted in modern because it's a stone rain against fetchlands.


It's a stone rain you have to be prepared to use. The Fetchlands deserve some reigning in in* modern.

*I get a special glee when I can use the same word twice in a row in ordinary English.
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
#Stifle: It's not narrow design at all. I mean, yeah, it's a problem for fetchlands, but really? That's your problem. That it makes fetchlands bad? Fetchlands need a hoser.

#Redirection: I'd still prefer redirect primary in blue, secondary in red, never in Junk. But I see your point.

#Mana-producing spells: Rituals are being weakened because of storm, something I personally disagree with. (Storm? Seriously?) But it's being done.

#Green fatties: It all depends. Something like Lhurgoyf or Scion of the Wild is really good in EDH. Sadly, not so much elsewhere. But green's strategies depend heavily on fatties, so green should have good fatties. Also, can we please, if we're making a cycle of fatties, make trample more or less green's default keyword?

#Build-around-me cards: Yeah, they exist in various sets. Hell, I can name about a dozen off the top of my head in Standard right now. I actually like build-around-me cards more than something like landwalk that depends on your opponent's deck.

#Better monocolored support: Well, besides the fact that the rules encourage monocolored play, you can get some. Liliana of the Dark Realms anyone?
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Stifle won't be reprinted in modern because it's a stone rain against fetchlands.

Well its your choice to play fetches. Some players are already using Squelch as a pseudo-stifle effect to take advantage to this in addition to cantripping and hosing other random stuff
4) More aggressively costed green fatties

Green is supposed to be the fatty color, yet its fatties tend to pale in comparison to ones of other colors. Give green dudes some wicked new keyword (aside from hexproof) and slap it on a game changing 5 or 6 drop.


I don't agree with this. We've recently had Wolfir Silverheart and Thragtusk, which are ridicolously undercosted. So undercosted in fact, that they make other aggressively costed green creatures like Deadbridge Goliath and Vorapede look not so impressive.

(Battle Hymn is an excellent ritual; very interactive, tons of potential, good middling power level.)


I like battle hymn, and tried to play it in a Burn at the Stake deck, but it's too slow. It should have really costed .

The last good mono-color decks was zombies. Even then with prohibitively costed cards like Geralf's Messenger, Falkenrath Noble eventually became part of the deck. More colors just means more options.


He meant Falkenrath Aristocrat.

I also enjoy mono color, especially of the black variety, but with the fixing we have in this ravnica block, splashing a 2nd color is way too easy. Conley Woods played an almost monoblack Crypt Ghast -> Griselbrand deck in the last pro-tour (leading to a solid 14th place, nontheless) and he splashed Dreadbore and Rakdos's Return off of Blood Crypts and Dragonskull Summits. When splashing enables you to do something your deck wouldn't be able to do at almost no cost, there aren't any good arguments against it.

Re: your (generally excellent) point about green fatties.  Agree that the problem isn't that they don't exist.  The problem is more that except for things like Thragtust & Titan, they don't do much but be fat.  I'm not sure that a 5/5 for 1GG would see construted play; fat by itself just won't do it; the creatures need to DO something.

Recall provoke from onsaught block (Untap target creature defending player controls; it must block this creature if able).  Put this on a 5/5 for 2GG and you have a sense of what I think a tier 1 green constructed creature needs to look like for green to be the "creature color.   Plus it plays into the 'fight' theme (which I love) for green removal.

My 2 cents 
I'm not sure that a 5/5 for 1GG would see construted play; fat by itself just won't do it; the creatures need to DO something.


I'm pretty sure Loxodon Smiter sees plenty of standard play.

I do like your idea of provoke though. That said, Green has Pit Fight now. 

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Also, IIRC Leatherback Baloth saw play in Standard, so a 5/5 that's easier to cast certainly would.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Also, IIRC Leatherback Baloth saw play in Standard, so a 5/5 that's easier to cast certainly would.



Likewise Woolly Thoctar.
I'm not sure that a 5/5 for 1GG would see construted play; fat by itself just won't do it; the creatures need to DO something.


I'm pretty sure Loxodon Smiter sees plenty of standard play.

I do like your idea of provoke though. That said, Green has Pit Fight now. 

Thanks to you and the others below.  I stand corrected.
@ Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter

These two cards don't improve monocolor decks and stop multicolor decks, they are mainly designed to stop nonbasic lands with special abilities (like Tolarian Academy or more currently Gavony Township). Tectonic edge does nothing until your opponent has 4 lands, so this gives multicolor decks enough time to find a land for each color. Ghost Quarter imposes a minor color-fixing drawback in multicolor decks for a higher speed disadvantage for your own deck.

I'm asking for land destruction that is good enough to justify the continued existence of cards with "Destroy target land" on them.
Every strategy needs counter strategies and greedy manabases are no exception.

You can't print land destruction with converted mana cost 3 (like Stone Rain). If you go first or cast a Gemstone Cavern, a single mana acceleration card like Birds of Paradise is enough to keep your opponent at a maximum of 1 land. If you can continue this for a few rounds, your opponent will run out of the usual one-land-drop-per-turn. At that time, the deck you've suggested could cast anything and go for an uncontested win. In the end, you opponent might not have been able to cast a single spell... sounds like a lot of fun.

Unlike discard or counterspells, there aren't no good anti-strategies against land destruction, so R&D was right to limit land destruction to cmc 4 spells. However, it's difficult to determine, which additional card effect makes them valueable. In my opinion, only spells like Raze are fine to have a casting cost lower than 4.

To stop decks that accelerate into several lands, it would be possible to print cards with "each player chooses three lands he or she controls, then sacrifices the rest."

@ green 5/5 for or a 5/5 provoke for

I don't like too powerful creatures in general, green is neither an exception nor an excuse. I'd rather like to see weaker creatures, less powerful creature removal and more powerful "minor side-effects". It's also a big difference, if a cmc1 creature puts on a 20-turn clock, or a 10-turn clock.

I don't like the suggested 5/5 provoke either. It doesn't support combat. I would build a deck that tries to eliminate all creatures my opponent controls and then cast this one to kill every creature my opponent tries to put on the battlefield. So in the end, it would be quite similar to a Anowon, the Ruin Sage or Visara, the Dreadful... a control creature.

Fight is ok, although I don't like the fact that R&D has removed the "tap those creatures" part of Arena when they made fight. Ulvenwald Tracker f.e. can be used in the same manner I've mentioned above. Use a powerful creature to kill a creature per turn and still be able to attack with that creature as well.
You can't print land destruction with converted mana cost 3 (like Stone Rain). If you go first or cast a Gemstone Cavern, a single mana acceleration card like Birds of Paradise is enough to keep your opponent at a maximum of 1 land. If you can continue this for a few rounds, your opponent will run out of the usual one-land-drop-per-turn. At that time, the deck you've suggested could cast anything and go for an uncontested win. In the end, you opponent might not have been able to cast a single spell... sounds like a lot of fun.


That's not what I'm asking for.
I don't want enough 3cmc stone rains to build a deck around, just enough that they can be a reasonable answer to powerful lands or greedy manabases.



That's not what I'm asking for.
I don't want enough 3cmc stone rains to build a deck around, just enough that they can be a reasonable answer to powerful lands or greedy manabases.


And I answered that you can't expect cmc3 land destruction in general and that 'powerful lands' and 'greedy manabases' aren't a good argument for a Stone Rain.

Powerful lands usually have a high activation cost, so the existing cmc4 land destruction spells are quite fine and 'greedy manabases' shouldn't be stopped by Stone Rains, but by cards that say: "each player sacrifices all but three lands he or she controls.", etc.


[
Powerful lands usually have a high activation cost, so the existing cmc4 land destruction spells are quite fine



And yet, none of them see play.

The only point I agree with you on is the last one. It's too easy to put as many colors as you want into your deck. Once upon a time, there was a downside to running certain colors, but Wizards has moved to the "let's please casuals" philosophy and made every combination of colors easy to play with few weaknesses.

 

When you talk about open design space, try NOT to list badly designed things that have already been done. Getitng more mana for less mana is bad design and always leads to broken combos. Countering triggered abilities isn't particularly interesting or useful except in the two or so combo decks that make use of it. Same goes for redirection. Green has too many aggressively costed green fatties already, and Wizards has already printed multiple blocks centered around artifacts and enchantments. In short, everything you listed (except the last point) has been done already and/or has been done badly.

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