New MBC

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Still determined to make this Arcetype work in standard and with some help from Gatecrash I think we're one step closer to making it a reality.




The sideboard is in a state of a flux due to my meta that changes every few week because people like to change up decks, but in some vigourous online testing this deck has some pretty fantastic results. This deck is able to stand on its legs just against virtually every single aggro deck around because of its ability to bounce back from any kind of imposing board presence via mutilate , and then retain board control with the rest of the removal alongside lord of the void and desecration demon . Against control its a tougher game that usually gives into them game 1, but as soon as you get to your sideboard they get dominated much the same as aggro does with the decks array of disruption that easily sides out for your removal. The biggest thorn in this decks side is burn. that much damage at instant speed with no way to block it does axe this deck. Other than that though this deck does well. I am aware B/G or B/R would be a more viable option and i have seperate lists for those, I really want criticism on this list and what better black cards i could be running in either the MB or the SB. 


EDIT: Changed OP to reflect suggested changes

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-3 lord of the void
-1 tribute to hunger
-1 devour flesh
-1 tragic slip


+2 victim of night
+3 griselbrand
+1 appetite for brains


I can explain card choices if you want.

 

 
-3 lord of the void
-1 tribute to hunger
-1 devour flesh
-1 tragic slip


+2 victim of night
+3 griselbrand
+1 appetite for brains


I can explain card choices if you want.

 

 



Agreeing with these choices.

100th post on 5/29/12 500th post on 8/20/12
I think I understand most of these choices but I would apreciate an explanation, also I only have 2 lord of the voids so what else would I drop for the 3rd one?


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also how well would increasing ambition work in this list as a 1 or 2 of?
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It would be bad.
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
Reasoning?
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blood artist and possibly ogre slumlord could be good here.
Maybe it's the Shocklands talking but I think you could very easily and beneficially add another color like Blue for draw that won't take your life away or White for ORings as a way to deal with Walkers and other non-creature threats. Of course it would be just the 4 shocks but SiBs and Liliana would make it work alright. Regardless of adding another color not I don't like 4 SiBs. I personally think 3 is the best amount.
p0p3l1n3ss: Not sure how i feel about adding more creatures into the deck, much less those two. although i do like blood artist.

elven soma: read the OP already dabbled in splashing another color, wanna keep this one MBC. 
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Monoblack is hosed ten ways from sunday by monowhite and Selesnya. 
Conley Woods just ran a "Mono"-Black Control list this weekend, and it looks pretty solid. I'd start here and kinda make changes and personalize the deck as you see fit: www.examiner.com/article/pro-tour-gatecr...
Monoblack is hosed ten ways from sunday by monowhite and Selesnya. 



Explain.

Pretty sure their hosing (Knight) just rolls over to Mutilate. 

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Generally, as a "mono black" player -- I can play "monoblack" if that means that every single card in my deck has a black part in it's mana cost.

Purely for flavor reasons.
Running that other color as a single monocolored card of that color makes me die inside
Dreadbore and Abrupt Decay = Okay
Oblivion Ring, Rancor and Pillar of Flame = Ritual suicide

Oh.

Extort.
I forgot that about Crypt Ghast because of it's 2/2 body on a 4cmc horse.

My "monoblack" deck is currently a library-hate deck with Shimian Specter, Rakdos's Return and Slaughter Games.

For me, Sever the Bloodline x3 feels essential, with Stranglerancor wreaking havoc to my defenses and Predator Ooze giving me headaches when their board consists of a young wolf, an undead Strangleroot Geist and one or two Rancors tied onto their side with a Predator Ooze threatening to break my game.

Turn 1: Elf
Turn 2: Predator Ooze --> Sacrifice elf if they are forced to sack.
Turn 3: Strangleroot Geist + Rancor on the most relevant critter
Turn 4: Pit fight on the declare attackers step; Predator Ooze and your blocker.
Giant Growth and Increasing Savagery can save one of their creatures from mutilate. 
Fight Club isn't a deck anymore. Played it at SCGO Atlanta. It was a miserable experience.

If the rest of that was responding to my request for an explanation regarding mono-white and Selesnya I missed it in there. 

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Ah, sorry I didn't read the paragraph. But just to point out, Conley Woods did pretty well with this "MBC" list splashing Red for Rakdos Return and Dreadbore
if you're consistently getting morbid when you need it with slip in mbc, more power to you i guess.  but i've given up.  now running typhoiders for a T1 play that buys a lot of time against gruul/selesnya.
Monoblack is hosed ten ways from sunday by monowhite and Selesnya. 



with 50% of my removal forcing them to sacrifice, knights of infamy in the side, and 4 mutilates i dont see how mono white has any particular advantage over this deck. protection, hexproof, and indestructible mean nothing to this deck.
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Monoblack is hosed ten ways from sunday by monowhite and Selesnya. 



with 50% of my removal forcing them to sacrifice, knights of infamy in the side, and 4 mutilates i dont see how mono white has any particular advantage over this deck. protection, hexproof, and indestructible mean nothing to this deck.



sigarda, host of herons  could be a problem for this deck, a lot of your removal is sacrifice, but you still have mutilates and appetite for brains  so its probably not that big of a problem, selesnya charm  is probably one of the few things that might be considered a hosing for this deck because they can instantly exile your big guys for 2 mana, although its not really specifically against monoblack by any means; thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a pain for this deck to deal with, but again thats the case for every control deck not just mono black.

I would put some pithing needles on the sideboard, black is weak to planeswalkers and making them inactive can be almost more benifital than killing them in some cases, not to mention it can neuter problematic lands and creatures like kessig wolf run,  and nephalia drownyard.

I know its mono black control but we are in a mutlicolor block, I would personally splash some red for rakdos's return  as a sideboard card against control match ups or perhaps even in the maindeck, not to mention olivia voldaren  takes over matches fast and slaughter games  is really good in a meta game like this; I've used zealous conscripts  on mutliple occasions to take over a planeswalker then use their ultimate for myself. I would also suggest adding blue to the equation, havengul lich, dimir charm, evil twin, snapcaster mage... blues got a lot of toys that a deck like this could take advantage of.

unburial rites  seems like a bad sideboard choice if your not going to take advantage of its flashback, I would suggest replacing it with rise from the grave  so you have the choice of taking over their dead creatures as well as reviving your own creatures. mind rot  is probably just going to be a waste of time against control decks, I would skip the card advantage and go strait for the mill win against them with sands of delirium  or nephalia drownyard, most of the time they draw so many cards that sideboarding a card that can constantly mill them will put them in the grave fast enough, all you would have to do is hold them off with kill spells.
i'll agree on the point of rise from the grave over unburial rites. rites got thrown in mostly as a "man it would be nice to brng back my bomb the turn after it gets killed" i just forgot about rise. Thalia and Siguarda i'll admit did scare me a bit, but between mutilate and well placed tragic slips i havent had any trouble  dealing with them once. Not sure how i feel about dropping mind rot, i've found it helps in pinning down there hand and forcing them to topdeck, however i suppose pithing needle in its place wouldnt be too bad.
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Edited the OP, what you you guys think about that?
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looks alright have you tested it out yet?
Edited the OP, what you you guys think about that?



Get rid of Desecration Demon, Rise from the Grave and Knight of Infamy. If you want to reanimate, make the :W: splash for Unburial Rites.

22 land won't do at all-  if you intend to play an 8-drop you easily need atleast 25 land.

Army of the Damned is pretty sweet with Crypt Ghast
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Wynzerman: uhm? give me one reason why desecration demon needs to be dropped, Knight of infamy gives me an edge over any white deck, and since i am specifically not splashing white rise of the grave is a far better choice. and how can you make a point of if i am running an 8 drop that i need 25 land, and then suggest another 8 drop soley because of crypt ghast. Becase of crypt ghast and that there is only 2 8 drops in the entire deck i have never had a single problem casting griselbrand off crypt ghast or just hard casting him, so 22 land does just fine.

Decktesting54: done some testing online with it and have ben quite pleased with the results, only had trouble against U/R/X decks and occasionally the first round against the enter the infinite deck, other than that this deck rolls just about everything game one, and if not then after sideboarding i win. 
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Wynzerman: uhm? give me one reason why desecration demon needs to be dropped, Knight of infamy gives me an edge over any white deck, and since i am specifically not splashing white rise of the grave is a far better choice. and how can you make a point of if i am running an 8 drop that i need 25 land, and then suggest another 8 drop soley because of crypt ghast. Becase of crypt ghast and that there is only 2 8 drops in the entire deck i have never had a single problem casting griselbrand off crypt ghast or just hard casting him, so 22 land does just fine.



You posted in deckhelp, if you think your deck is fine the way it is, then don't post it. I think it's walking into several of the game's easy pitfalls, and the tips I'm giving are to simply make the deck simply work a little better.

Desecration Demon allows your aggressive opponents too many options, Rise From The Grave is simply a worse reanimator spell than Unburial Rites.  And I commented about Army under the impression of a 25 land deck which pushes Crypt Ghast for mana acceleration.
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Wynzerman: uhm? give me one reason why desecration demon needs to be dropped, Knight of infamy gives me an edge over any white deck, and since i am specifically not splashing white rise of the grave is a far better choice. and how can you make a point of if i am running an 8 drop that i need 25 land, and then suggest another 8 drop soley because of crypt ghast. Becase of crypt ghast and that there is only 2 8 drops in the entire deck i have never had a single problem casting griselbrand off crypt ghast or just hard casting him, so 22 land does just fine.



You posted in deckhelp, if you think your deck is fine the way it is, then don't post it. I think it's walking into several of the game's easy pitfalls, and the tips I'm giving are to simply make the deck simply work a little better.

Desecration Demon allows your aggressive opponents too many options, Rise From The Grave is simply a worse reanimator spell than Unburial Rites.  And I commented about Army under the impression of a 25 land deck which pushes Crypt Ghast for mana acceleration.



I agree.  Crypt Ghast is too fragile to depend on for more than a turn if it is necessary to run the higher CC cards.  Dies to burn way too easily, and is't resilient.  I don't want to give the "dies to removal" argument, but resiliency is important.  Especially when it is the main engine of your deck.  Most decks that play higher than 5 cc stuff needs to run more than 24 land.  Why?  math.  You just can't reliably and consistently draw 4 land every game by turn 4 if you don't run 24 land.  5 mana is like turn 6.  6 mana is like turn 8-9.  8 mana?  You're looking at approx 13-16th turn, and that's if the math is consistent based on the number of cards drawn.

If Crypt Ghast is left alone (and trust me, if they aren't onto it after Conley's deck and don't follow standard at all, they will be on game 2), they don't know what they are doing and probably can't interact with the opponent's deck.

On the rise from the grave/unburial rites argument, Rites gives two uses to target your own GY.  Grave can target any GY.  Seems like good tech vs reanimator...but it's not as efficient, unless that's what you plan to do.

On the Rise vs Unburial, 1) rise is there over rites because I will not at any point with this particular deck be splashing another color so against rites with that in mind, it is strictly better 2) rise is only in there as a nifty sideboard card against decks that have the ability to counter, mill, or remove any of my demons so they're not for good, and also due to the fact that I havent recieved any suggestions as to what I should put in there instead.

Desecration Demon, he gives my opponents very few options because of all the removal in this deck, on top of mutilate. I have very rarely had an opponent who sacs a creature and makes him useless, and when they do it has always been the last creature on the field that only gives them 1 or 2 extra turns that does absolutely nothng for them because I have either a nighthawk, griselbrand/ lord of the void, or another desecration demon beating down their door.

Crypt Ghast, I agree he is very fragile, and but in my play testing my opponents have been far more likely to spare him that one turn he lives in favor of nuking one of my nighthawks or occasionally a demon, which gives me all the time I need to vomit my hand all over them and extort while i'm doing it, he is however by now means the engine of this deck, he is merely a very nice bit of acceleration that gets me to where I want to be faster.

On the 25 land issue, never once have I had an issue with hitting land drops. I have been able to Easily hard cast Griselbrand and Lord of the void both with no difficulty against naya, jund, RDW, and Boros decks alike and win, although typically crypt ghast does help that happen more frequently than hard casting them. Between SiB and all of the cheap removal and creatures on top of crypt ghast only needing to live one turn to be useful I have never had any issue playing the only 2 cards in the deck that cost an exorbitant amount of mana. Quite frankly the only problem I have ever had in this deck is 3-5 turn periods of pulling only land, and then losing because of that.  

I apologize for the retaliatory tone of my previous post, it was not to insinuate that "my deck is the coolest thing with sliced bread, nothing is wrong with it, dont try to tell me other wise" that is not my intention. What I was trying to convey is that several points were made agaisnt cards in the deck that, quite frankly, are what allow it to win i.e. desecration demon and to say that he "just won't do" as well as proposing, in what is my opinion a ridiculous aount of land, for a deck that has absolutely no problem casting the miniscule amount of high cost cards that exisit in it, with little to no supporting reasons irked me a bit. I understand this is deck help, but that dosent make arbitrarily throwing out "this dosent work, you'll never be able to cast it with that few lands" count as helpful or constructive.
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on the unburial rites  arguement, perhaps a compromise, you could put in godless shrine  as a means by which to keep the deck monoblack but still be able to use unburial rites's flashback, honestly it is a far superior card to rise from the grave; if not then rise from the grave  is your card.

on the W/R/X decks I am asuming they are aggro decks and not some weird midranged thing, I would have thought knight of infamy  would have been a strong enough barrier to stop them, perhaps more sweepers are in order, try sideboarding sign in blood or cower in fear, I don't really know how better to help if you plan on staying monoblack; more kill spells? Devour Flesh  might be worth looking into, you can sacrifice your own desecration demon  or a vampire nighthawk  if they push you too hard and you can also use it as removal, them gaining a burst of life isn't really a big deal for control in the early game.

also desecration demon  is one of those cards people seem to instantly dismiss because they see his downside and think it gives the enemy too many options, thats the wrong way to look at it; an aggro deck's purpose is to gain board presence early in the game and kill you before you can stabilize, so giving them the option to weaken their board presence at the cost of life isn't really a big deal when you can play cards like devour flesh  to simply punish them for being so taking the bait.

on the W/R/X decks I am asuming they are aggro decks and not some weird midranged thing, I would have thought knight of infamy  would have been a strong enough barrier to stop them, perhaps more sweepers are in order, try sideboarding sign in blood or cower in fear, I don't really know how better to help if you plan on staying monoblack; more kill spells? Devour Flesh  might be worth looking into, you can sacrifice your own desecration demon  or a vampire nighthawk  if they push you too hard and you can also use it as removal, them gaining a burst of life isn't really a big deal for control in the early game.



Its U/R/X not so many problem with W. This deck has been a major thorn because they are very creature light and do nothing but burn or counter the few creatures I do have and then torch me with an endless supply of brunspells courtesy of snapcaster mage and mystic retrieval other than boarding in lots of disruption and sands as an alternate win con this match pretty much has me pegged.


also desecration demon  is one of those cards people seem to instantly dismiss because they see his downside and think it gives the enemy too many options, thats the wrong way to look at it; an aggro deck's purpose is to gain board presence early in the game and kill you before you can stabilize, so giving them the option to weaken their board presence at the cost of life isn't really a big deal when you can play cards like devour flesh  to simply punish them for being so taking the bait.



that is exactly what i'm talking about, between this decks huge array of removal and the consistency with which U pull mutilate they rarely ever have more than once creature on the board, so desecration demon s ability to let them sac really only helps.

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For your side board you could think about some cards like cremate, beckon apparition and witchbane orb. Also have you considered bloodgift demon for the main. Both cremate and beckon apparition are good hosers against reanimater and U/R/x decks and withcbane orb stops burn to the dome as well as drownyard shenanigans.
I like run a few non-swamps, just so that I can limit my mutilates if necessary, to let my demons survive the mutilate late game.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />also desecration demon  is one of those cards people seem to instantly dismiss because they see his downside and think it gives the enemy too many options, thats the wrong way to look at it; an aggro deck's purpose is to gain board presence early in the game and kill you before you can stabilize, so giving them the option to weaken their board presence at the cost of life isn't really a big deal when you can play cards like devour flesh  to simply punish them for being so taking the bait.



It's not simply a matter of dismissal, it's a matter of understanding the nature of competitive Magic.  There are plenty of cards with powerful upside that are nuts when they work- but cards like Desecration Demon can become an absolute liability when your opponent can manage it. One such example is that DD is worded such that your opoonent can tap him during either combat to prevent the Demon from blocking, or can Fog it with tokens from any army-in-a-can spell. This is a downside that is far more crippling than Juzam Djinn because it actually gives your opponent control over combat.

Ofcourse, I'm sort of doubting that the OP has playtested, or at the very least playtested against anything relevant if they're so adamant about always hitting 4 Swamps on 22 land. So, I'm not entirely sure that the OP fully understands how Desecration Demon actually works.
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All I can say is that I find your lack of faith distrubing. By keeping smart hands where I always have 2-3 swamps (which rarely causes me to mull below 6 and never once below 5) on top of the 4 SiB in the deck, I have never had a problem pulling four land or more. now have I tested this at any big tournaments? no, not caliming I have, nor does that have any relevance to the amount of play testing this deck has had. It has play tested as several FNM, and more tabletop games and online matches than I can count. All with the same result of my land base working just fine.

bloodgift demon I have thought about him and I was very interested in finding him a spot in the deck, but had some trouble making the call on what to pull for him. Suggestions? perhaps dropping my crypt ghast count down to the original 3 and dropping SiB to 3 as well?

witchbane orb Doh! Can't believe forgot about that. That solves virtually every problem I have right there.

 
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I like run a few non-swamps, just so that I can limit my mutilates if necessary, to let my demons survive the mutilate late game.


that is a good poont, one of my favorite combos is to mutilate away their field and still keep my demons, but where every land puts them one step closer to mutilation it would be nice having an alternative every now and then. Do you have any suggestions of non swamp lands that are relavent besides ones that woud cause me to splash another color?
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Alrighty I think i've found my final list of what I like and where i'm gonn stay at. thoughts, comments?
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It's not simply a matter of dismissal, it's a matter of understanding the nature of competitive Magic.  There are plenty of cards with powerful upside that are nuts when they work- but cards like Desecration Demon can become an absolute liability when your opponent can manage it. One such example is that DD is worded such that your opoonent can tap him during either combat to prevent the Demon from blocking, or can Fog it with tokens from any army-in-a-can spell. This is a downside that is far more crippling than Juzam Djinn because it actually gives your opponent control over combat.



Im my Rakdos deck the point is to deal at least one damage to you in any way possible to get Rakdos, Lord of Riots out on the field. Desecration Demon can help. If you are constantly sacking your own creatures you are leaving yourself with one less blocker each turn. With the constant threat of the Demon, but the worry of Rakdos coming out, it forces people to either weaken their board position or take some damage. That's just how I run him anyways....

Here's my version of MBC control.


Creatures/Planeswalkers:
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Crypt Ghast
3 Griselbrand
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms


Spells:
1 Staff of Nin
3 Victim of Night
2 Devour Flesh
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Underworld Connections
2 Dreadbore
3 Mutilate
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Sign in Blood

Lands:
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Dragonskull Summit
7 Swamp
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Stensia Bloodhall
1 Mountain
Decks I play: Modern: R/G Tron B/w Soul Sisters EDH: Gisela Midrange Edric Tap em down n' Swing Karrthus, the dragonlord Kaervek, the troll. Standard: The Aristocrats
Here's the version I'm running at the moment:



Pretty much what Conley Woods had but I'm trying out Mikaeus to add some resilience. In playtesting, I've noticed a conflict between having early creatures and Mutilate at the start and I'm hoping he will make the choice a little less painful.

Here's the version I'm running at the moment:



Pretty much what Conley Woods had but I'm trying out Mikaeus to add some resilience. In playtesting, I've noticed a conflict between having early creatures and Mutilate at the start and I'm hoping he will make the choice a little less painful.




Has anyone ever thought of splashing green for good ol' Deathrite Shamans? They're gold if your meta is full of American Midrange/Control and Esper Midrange/Control.

Also is the Mikaeus a meta choice? Or is it that good? I've heard Naya humans starting to be a thing now, is that why?
Decks I play: Modern: R/G Tron B/w Soul Sisters EDH: Gisela Midrange Edric Tap em down n' Swing Karrthus, the dragonlord Kaervek, the troll. Standard: The Aristocrats
Here's the version I'm running at the moment:



Pretty much what Conley Woods had but I'm trying out Mikaeus to add some resilience. In playtesting, I've noticed a conflict between having early creatures and Mutilate at the start and I'm hoping he will make the choice a little less painful.




Has anyone ever thought of splashing green for good ol' Deathrite Shamans? They're gold if your meta is full of American Midrange/Control and Esper Midrange/Control.

Also is the Mikaeus a meta choice? Or is it that good? I've heard Naya humans starting to be a thing now, is that why?




I don't know for sure if he's any good yet, but here's why I added him:

- Extra beef in the event my Griselbrands are Slaughter Gamesed (new verb).
- My little dudes all gain Undying, which means I can Mutilate at will, leaving my opponent with nothing and my board full of pumped creatures and maintains my mana engine. Also just makes everything harder to remove, which can be a problem versus Jund among others.
- Doesn't die to red burn spells (Searing Spear or Mizzium Mortars) or Victim of Night


Oh, and if you're playing against R/B, be sure and Slaughter Games their Slaughter Games before they can Slaughter Games, cuz that card is good against this deck.