We need to slay a dragon

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our party is 11 level a few 12ths we are playing in forgotton realms and need to kill a grat wyrm red dragon
we ahve a plaidin warlock wizard fighter ranger barbarian and 2 clerics
i need a way to kill it cheese is fine any seggustions nice
Shivering Touch the hell out out of it. 3d6 + 50% DEX damage will probably paralyze it in one shot.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Cheese is what you need because there really is no way a party that averages even 13th-level should have a shot against a CR 26 GWRD.  Perhaps pun-pun or something at a similar level of munchkin may be able to do but not anythning normal.

Yes, Shivering Touch IS the broken "dragon slaying" spell as lowering its DEX 3d6 points often results in paralyzation for a DEX 10 Dragon.  I guess the only thing that will stop that is actually a smart Red Dragon covering it biggest weakness with something that grants immunity to cold.  Of course the vanity of some red dragons may overwhelm their common sense.
 
Drop something on it.

Any particularly heavy object could fall off a 10' cliff on it and, due to the falling damage rules, deal rediculious damage to the dragon with no save. You're going to want something around 19 tons for this attempt though more is safer. For every ton you drop, you deal 10d6 of damage and a normal Great Wyrm has 660 HP. (660/3.5≈189*2,000=378,000 lbs) Doing a little math, a good boulder for this is going to be about 4 feet across.

My best suggestion for how to get this to happen would be to lead the Red Dragon into a canyon with a number of balancing rocks and hoodoos and pull some Wile E. Coyote style shenanigans to push them onto the dragon. It's cinematic, good tactics, doesn't allow a save or spellresistance, and even if it fails it doesn't keep you from facing off with it using other tactics.
Steven, you raise a good point, but it's gotten me to thinking: what if you just used Energy Substitution to make it (for example) a Sonic-descriptor spell that dealt Dex damage?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I don't suppose your barbarian is a hood? Cause if that's so line up the meat puppets and let hell break loose. Otherwise you need to rely on shenanigans or maybe if you can get your warlock to diplomonster the hell out of it and make it your friend. Final suggestion would be tell your wizard to gtfo rez you level up a bit then kill it when appropriate.
to grt in position for shivering touch, take tze hide fron dragons spell i the spell compedium. if i rekembrr the spell correctly, it allowed no save.
If your Barbarian is blaying build #1 in this thread then you should be fine.
Shivering Touch the hell out out of it. 3d6 + 50% DEX damage will probably paralyze it in one shot.

Which won't work. All GW are spellcasters, and all of them take Scintillating Scales, and so the Shivering Touch will never hit it.


We don't know how savvy the GM is; and even if he does take Scintillating Scales, a Contingency'd True Strike will fix that handily. I'd be more worried about the SR; I don't remember of Shivering Touch allows SR or not. I do recall that Great Wyrms have SR in the low 30s, so Assay Resistance will be essential if that is so.

Barring that? There's the usual easily bannable cheese like shrink item + telekinesis = here catch have a mountain, but I don't like going there. 
Even with a true strike, a GW's AC is high enough that he will be quite unlikely to hit. A level 11 wizard cannot possibly have more than BAB 5 unless using Abjurant Champion or Spellblade.


I didn't think it was possible for a GW to increase their touch AC to higher than their normal unbuffed AC with Scint Scales; isn't the deflection bonus granted based on their existing natural armor? It's not too difficult to create a level 12 gish with BAB +8 or +9 and 11 levels of wizard casting. There's also Polymorphing into something with phat Dex, morale bonuses (from Greater Heroism or an optimized bard ally), or even stacking up dinky bonuses (like Haste and an archer buddy doing Aid Another). I can see a mid-30s bonus without too much difficulty, which should make things possible.
And all of this is assuming they even can fight this high-leveled sorcerer. It'd be much smarter to GPB something to wipe the party than to engage personally, or at least only enter battle with a bunch of highly-buffed minions with the element of surprise. It's a highly intelligent caster with access to divinations and a bunch of other caster toys. The party has no chance. 


Well, there is the question of how intelligent the GM is playing this lizard. Generally any cheese available to the party is available to the dragon (unless you have a Great Wyrm White, the red-headed stepchild of the chromatic dragons), so you need to assume that the party will have the chance to attack the dragon at a point of invulnerability, or load up on the REAL cheese (like the Miracle at level 6 cleric or breaking the economy to hire an army of war troll mercenaries riding battletitan dinosaurs).

One step at a time though. How can a mid-level party get its hands on an item of Disintegrate or other way of burrowing through walls? If you've got enough stone between you and the dragon, you can just dig your way through a lot of lairs and skip the traps. Remember, they don't have tremorsense.
One step at a time though. How can a mid-level party get its hands on an item of Disintegrate or other way of burrowing through walls? If you've got enough stone between you and the dragon, you can just dig your way through a lot of lairs and skip the traps. Remember, they don't have tremorsense.

Summon nature's ally III is a possibility; I wouldn't normally want to use it for long distances, but it's available even in core if you don't have anything better.

I would, however, want to ask more about the circumstances involved.  Why does the party need to kill this great red wyrm in the first place?

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

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Level up, conceal yourself as much as possible (magically and mundanely), and follow most of the rest of the advice posted here. Also, hope your DM is giving up some of the dragons advantages by not being fully aware of them all.
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