Flickerform

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Two questions regarding Flickerform:

1) If I bring a creature back with Animate Dead, then enchant the creature with Flickerform and activate the ability, will Animate Dead stay exiled? Or will it come back attached to the creature, then be put into its owner's graveyard?

2) If Enchanted Evening is on the battlefield and I have a Copy Enchantment attached to the same creature as Flickerform and activate Flickerform's ability, will Copy Enchantment enter the battlefield attached to the creature if I have it copy an Equipment?
Rules Advisor
1) it will remain exiled because it can't legally enchant the returned creature

2) I don't think so, but don't quote me on that
proud member of the 2011 community team
Two questions regarding Flickerform:

1) If I bring a creature back with Animate Dead, then enchant the creature with Flickerform and activate the ability, will Animate Dead stay exiled? Or will it come back attached to the creature, then be put into its owner's graveyard?


It will remain exiled.


2) If Enchanted Evening is on the battlefield and I have a Copy Enchantment attached to the same creature as Flickerform, can Copy Enchantment come back as an Equipment and still attach to the creature?


According to the ruling, it comes back attached to the creature and you choose something for it to copy.  If you copy a non-aura, it will fall off but remain on the battlefield.  You can't copy anything being returned by the Flickerform.
 
I think it will stay on if it is an equipment copy.  It's already attached to the creature, so there's no reason to remove it.
 
Does the answer to my first question change if I substitute Necromancy or a Licid for Animate Dead?
Rules Advisor
the returning Necromancy or a Licid can also not enchant the returned creature (because they are not Auras) so they remain exiled as well
proud member of the 2011 community team
Does the answer to my first question change if I substitute Necromancy or a Licid for Animate Dead?


Not that I can see, no.  They remain exiled.
 
the returning Necromancy or a Licid can also not enchant the returned creature (because they are not Auras) so they remain exiled as well


That's what I thoght, but this rule only applies to auras.  Is there a similar rule that says non-auras can't come back?


303.4g If an Aura is entering the battlefield and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard instead of entering the battlefield.



 
true, that seems to be a loophole
proud member of the 2011 community team
true, that seems to be a loophole


I wonder now if all those cards come back and fall off.

704.5q If a creature is attached to an object or player, it becomes unattached and remains on the battlefield. Similarly, if a permanent that’s neither an Aura, an Equipment, nor a Fortification is attached to an object or player, it becomes unattached and remains on the battlefield.
  
This is the relevent rule:

701.3b If an effect tries to attach an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to an object it can’t be attached to, the Aura, Equipment, or Fortification doesn’t move. If an effect tries to attach an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to the object it’s already attached to, the effect does nothing. If an effect tries to attach an object that isn’t an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to another object or player, the effect does nothing and the first object doesn’t move.

From FezzHeads new thread in RT&T
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
 


 
at least this answers that Necromancy and Licids remain exiled
proud member of the 2011 community team
at least this answers that Necromancy and Licids remain exiled

How so? Keep in mind that "move" means "change that to which the aura is attached" in that rule. At the very least, it doesn't answer that on its own.What are the other rules that allow one to reach that conclusion?
According to the ruling, it comes back attached to the creature and you choose something for it to copy.  If you copy a non-aura, it will fall off but remain on the battlefield.  You can't copy anything being returned by the Flickerform.

Wow, that ruling is... interesting?
If the enchanted creature was also enchanted by Copy Enchantment, Copy Enchantment will come back onto the battlefield attached to that permanent. As Copy Enchantment returns to the battlefield, its controller may choose any enchantment on the battlefield for it to copy. It can't copy Flickerform or any other Aura returning to the battlefield at the same time. If it copies a non-Aura enchantment, it will become unattached from the permanent and remain on the battlefield.

Ignoring that it claims a non-Aura can be attached to something (and it's not talking about Equipment or Fortifications), what would cause it to become unattached?
According to the ruling, it comes back attached to the creature and you choose something for it to copy.  If you copy a non-aura, it will fall off but remain on the battlefield.  You can't copy anything being returned by the Flickerform.

Wow, that ruling is... interesting?
If the enchanted creature was also enchanted by Copy Enchantment, Copy Enchantment will come back onto the battlefield attached to that permanent. As Copy Enchantment returns to the battlefield, its controller may choose any enchantment on the battlefield for it to copy. It can't copy Flickerform or any other Aura returning to the battlefield at the same time. If it copies a non-Aura enchantment, it will become unattached from the permanent and remain on the battlefield.

Ignoring that it claims a non-Aura can be attached to something (and it's not talking about Equipment or Fortifications), what would cause it to become unattached?



I think this is the rule that unattaches it.  This is also how a Licid unattaches.









704.5q If a creature is attached to an object or player, it becomes unattached and remains on the battlefield. Similarly, if a permanent that’s neither an Aura, an Equipment, nor a Fortification is attached to an object or player, it becomes unattached and remains on the battlefield.



indeed, thanks.
1) If I bring a creature back with Animate Dead, then enchant the creature with Flickerform and activate the ability, will Animate Dead stay exiled? Or will it come back attached to the creature, then be put into its owner's graveyard?

It stays exiled, thanks to rule 303.4g.

2) If Enchanted Evening is on the battlefield and I have a Copy Enchantment attached to the same creature as Flickerform and activate Flickerform's ability, will Copy Enchantment enter the battlefield attached to the creature if I have it copy an Equipment?

Yes. An equipment can enter the battlefield attached to a creature.

Does the answer to my first question change if I substitute Necromancy or a Licid for Animate Dead?

Yes. If they try to enter the battlefield as non-attachable permanents, they enter the battlefield unattached. The last Gatherer ruling on Flickerform is incorrect. There's an official answer by Natedogg here.



Thanks, all.
Rules Advisor
The last Gatherer ruling on Flickerform is incorrect. There's an official answer by Natedogg here.

This OR is 12 months old; why haven't they updated Flickerform's ruling?

Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

I now posted it in the gatherer thread in RT&T
should be updated soon
proud member of the 2011 community team
The last Gatherer ruling on Flickerform is incorrect. There's an official answer by Natedogg here.

This OR is 12 months old; why haven't they updated Flickerform's ruling?



Because the person who maintains the rulings in Gatherer is not the same person who issued that OR.  If you spot an error in Gatherer rulings,  send a PM to Avedomni.  That's the netrep for Gatherer.

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