Guttersnipe Multiplayer Deck

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Here is a deck that I'm trying to improve to make it more multiplayer orientated. Cards like Sizzle are great, but I really don't lie spells that also do damage to me. Anyway, here's the decklist. Tell me what you think.

Land: 22
10 Island
10 Mountain
2 Izzet Boilerworks

Creatures: 12
4 Guttersnipe
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Wee Dragonauts

Other Spells: 28
3 Artful Dodge
4 Sizzle
3 Electrickery
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Slash
4 Think Twice
4 Ponder

There are some cards that I think would be good, But I don't know what to cut. Some examples are:
Mystic Retrieval
A couple of comments:

#1) You want Guttersnipe to have synergy with your sorceries but you don't want those sorceries to be ineffective without the snipes.  So how about adding some instants/sorceries that protect your snipes?

#2) The drawback to using sorceries is that they take up deck space leaving you with fewer permanents.  Accordingly, sorceries that will result in you gaining permanents are ideal.  That's why I like Talrand, Sky Summoner and Talrand's Invocation in a deck like this.  I would also consider cackling counterpart (copy your snipes), Illicit Auction, Telemin Performance, Dominate, Annex and Bribery (although pricey).

#3) Most of the creatures that benefit from sorceries tend to be on the weak side; I think Kiln Fiend and Wee Dragonauts aren't very strong.  I would consider replacing these with other creatures of the same converted mana cost.  For example, instead of Wee Dragonauts and Kiln Fiend, you could have Echo Mage, Izzet Guildmage, Nivix Guildmage or dimir guildmage.  At the higher end of the curve, it's hard to beat Charmbreaker Devils, particularly with Artful Dodge in the deck.

#4) Why not use some utility?  Chaos Warpinto the core? meltdown? overmaster? shattering spree?
I have a Guttersnipe, Kiln Fiend deck together with Delver of Secrets
I dropped Wee, they're kinda crappy compared to Delver.

My take is a bit different though.  Instead of lots of red spells aiming at peoples heads, I'd used lots of blue.
Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, and some counter.
I have about 8 red instants (lightning Bolt etc) and a few sneaky things like Vapor Snag.
I also have some flashback cards like Careful Study and Faithless Looting too.    

I also have a pair of Whispersilk Cloak and a Lightning Greaves in there too. 

Having the blue filter makes the decks quite consistent, and whilst it's never gonna bash like a green deck, with the right numbers of burn and counter, bounce and creatures, I've been able to slowly whittle a table down without actually needng to attack by simply chaining Ponders etc.  

Turning a duel deck into an MP deck can be a challenge, especially with decks like this one.

Still... some cards that play nice with Guttersnipe include Glacial Chasm to let you cast mass damage spells with impunity and Chandra's Spitfire who loves when each opponent takes damage from one effect, because she triggers for each opponent.

Sun Droplet makes most self-inflicted damage go away by the time it is your turn again, allowing you to play those Acidic Soils and Flame Rifts.

Being able to keep the Guttersnipes alive is helpful: Lightning Greaves or Mizzium Skin, perhaps.

If feeling bold, Vision Skeins and Words of Wisdom for some draw that has the potential to buy off opponents, if only for a turn.

A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. for all your preparation needs. - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
I actually used guttersnipe for a deck that uses call the skybreaker and other retrace cards only to find that I never needed it when I drew it. Pyromancer ascension can make these decks get crazy really quick. The key is cost reduction. I use locket of yesterdays, but goblin electromancer and/or arcane melee allows for some massive spells, or maybe just spell burst and capsize. ;)

@slave: Your build sounds like it would benefit from gush and frantic search. Also something along the lines of twiddle/dream's grip with gilded lotus for additional mana can allow you to chain off of your draws, so long as you use mostly cantrips. I used to have a 1v1 brain freeze deck that was able to chain the majority of my deck, allowing for triple-digit milling with 1 brain freeze.

@Krichaiushii: You know that by the time you get a guttersnipe with your suggestion, you'd have already killed 1 player with the spitfire, hardly making it a guttersnipe deck. I know because I've tried.

@TB: I like distortion strike better than artful dodge for kiln fiend decks, personally.

Think twice seems really slow, and doesn't curve well. Oona's grace allows you to filter some of that useless land later in the game. Flame jab can poke essential targets later on, too.

I've seen wee dragonauts go crazy with cards like fists of the anvil and blood lust for a quick kill, though I don't know if that's what kind of deck you're building. In fact, I'm not too sure about the inclusion of Kiln and Wee. If you drop those and focus on guttersnipe, then you can have a more dedicated deck, kind of what slave was getting at.

Overall, I apologize for criticizing everybody's posts...but there it is.
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains.
Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
I really like the Chandra's Spitfire and token producing suggestions. I don't really see the point of using anything that copies spells because since I'm not casting the copy, they won't trigger Guttersnipe.
I think much of the instant/sorcery section is just kind of being there to trigger Guttersnipe, and could be affecting the board in a more active way. Sizzle is a multiplayer gem, but actually only does what Guttersnipe is already doing. It doesn't provide redundancy because it still can't win the game without Guttersnipe, so really it's just amplifying something that's already there. I think it would be better to focus on using instants and sorceries to control the board, and letting the game finish itself courtesy of Guttersnipe and Chandra's Spitfire (and maybe Wee Dragonauts, because I seem to have a higher opinion of them than most).

So I think the best plan would be to use small, controlling instants and sorceries, with some kind of draw or recursion to help them along. Draw is easy enough, and I would say Think Twice is a good pick. For recursion, Mystic Retrieval would be my first choice, but I'd also like to include Izzet Chronarch (or Scrivener, Archaeomancer or Mnemonic Wall), to loop with a bounce spell. Echoing Truth would be great in place of Electrickery; it loops, it protects your own guys, it kills tokens and it can deal with big things too. Jilt is another way to either get a little card advantage or add some extra value into the loop.

Overall, I think the only parts of the instant/sorcery suite I'd want to keep are Think Twice, Lightning Bolt (it's not maximised in multiplayer, but it's seldom useless and the triggered abilities make it worthwhile), and maybe Ponder (although that could be replaced by Muddle the Mixture which can allow you to build a deck with plenty of options). Flame Slash isn't a bad card by any means, but I think it's too limited in what it can do (an easy replacement is Mizzium Mortars, if it's affordable). As well as the card drawing and recursion set, I'd want about twelve versatile, effective cards that can keep my opponents under control while the creatures deal damage.
I think counterspells would be a bad route because one cannot possibly 1-for-1 two or three other people while still making proactive game plays. Rather than using a 4-5 cost creature to recur a bounce spell once a turn (I will most liekly not have enough mana to ever do it twice), I would rather use cheap cantrips strung together to do much more damage wth Guttersnipe and/or Chandra's Spitfire. Flame Slash is superior to Mizzium Mortars in this case because I will most likely never have 6 mana to spend (though it is possible, so maybe it's a one-of). I don't like Echoing Truth because it is still narrow for a bounce spell. I can't see ever getting more then maybe 3 permanents and I would rather use a more permanent solution for protecting Guttersnipe such as Lightning Greaves. I do, however, agree that the main strategy of the deck should be more controlling. I don't mean to hate on peoples' suggestions (I'm very appreciative of them), but if you cannot defend a suggestion, how good can it be? Anyway, thanks all! Here's an updated decklist. Feel free to continue to critique it

Land: 22
9 Mountain
9 Island
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Izzet Boilerworks

4 Guttersnipe
3 Kiln Fiend (Great beater at best; bad chump blacker at worst)
4 Chandra's Spitfire (Better than Kiln Fiend in most situations)

Other Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Slash
4 Ponder
3 Fling/Rupture - not sure which; both have good use in this deck. Advice?
3 Sizzle
3 Preordain
2 Electrickery/Lightning Greaves (Depends on who I'm playing)
2 Mystic Retrieval
2 Think Twice

I'm sure the deck can be improved, But I think it is better than when I started.
Echoing Truth is only narrow in token-free environments.  Which reminds me, I need to build a deck incorporating the Truth for my metagame!

Shivan Gorge for a mountain; Spitfire loves it.  Spitfire loves Lobber Crew and Pyrohemia, as well.  Beware clogging up your 3 cmc slot, though! 

Arc Trail, Cone of Flame, and Comet Storm can target multiple players, which Spitfire likes.  Earthquake does too, but kills your Guttersnipe.

Rupture will kill your Guttersnipes, so Fling seems better.

Wee Dragonauts fly, while Kiln Fiend does not.  This may not matter in your meta.

Perhaps capitalize on flashback spells, running a full playset of Think Twice, alongside a few Deep Analysis, Nightbird's Clutches (for yourself and to cause mischief with other players' combats), and Seize the Day?

Buyback also gives you options, particularly Capsize, Shattering Pulse, Mystic Speculation, and Fanning the Flames.  It gets expensive, mana-wise, so perhaps Sol Ring and other mana rocks or Memory Crystals?

What about Reverberate and Reiterate?  The copies won't trigger Guttersnipe, but the Forking spell WILL.

Teleportal to make your dude(s) unblockable?


A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. for all your preparation needs. - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
Shivan Gorge is perfect, and it also happens to be $1. Lobber Crew and Pyrohemia are also good fits. I'll have to play a few games to figure out which of these and if I should play Kiln Fiend or Wee Dragonauts.
I'll put up the deck that leads me to make those suggestions. It's based on Izzet Guildmage and is mainly built to keep threats away. The problem is that it eventually runs out of cards without having managed to put up much of an offence, and the solution would be Guttersnipe, to turn defence into damage. It splashes Black for some efficient 2-mana kill spells and recursion:

 If I had a playgroup at the moment, I'd splash out and make some changes:

Izzet Chronarch for Archaeomancer
Scrivener for Mystic Retrieval
Incinerate for Mizzium Mortars (maybe 2 for 2, as Incinerate boosted by Izzet Guildmage is a pretty good way to finish off players)
Telling Time for Guttersnipe
Macabre Waltz for Death Denied
1 Shred Memory for Muddle the Mixture

I'd try to find a spot for Jilt in there too, as it was a pretty useful element of the deck (I think I swapped it out for Telling time, and haven't actually played with it since). Goblin Electromancer would also be a perfect fit, but it's hard to find the slot for another creature. Maybe one or two could go in place of Mystic Retrieval.

As you can see, it's pretty heavily focused on the two-mana slot. But the strategy it uses is the kind of thing I see guttersnipe working in: slow control with recursion, keeping attackers away with spot removal and looping blockers, and grinding away at life totals while it does so. Good fun to play too! Other players in my old group have a decent record using it, but I'm not a good enough player to make the right decisions. It's pretty unforgiving.

You seem to want to focus more on attacking with creatures, and it seems like this deck is going to be more focused on usgin Guttersnipe to fuel Chandra's Spitfire and friends. With that in mind, I'd suggest Intimidator Initiate and Lava Dart. Initiate means that in one spell you can burn one blocker, disable another, pump your attackers, maybe untap Lobber Crew and deal damage with Guttersnipe. You could also consider including Gelectrode, as his damage can really start to add up. For Lava Dart, two spells for one mana can do a lot for this deck. The fact it can kill off the annoying little guys is just gravy.

A note on Mizzium Mortars and Echoing Truth though: They really are improvements over Flame Slash and Electrickery. Slash would be alright if it were an instant, but sorcery speed is a real problem in multiplayer. It's so much worse to have to kill a creature before you know who it's going to attack. Mortars compensates with a great board-clearing option, and multiplayer games will definitely go to six mana. Only the quickest, most focused burn decks will stop that. At the point, Slash is having trouble keeping up but Mortars is stronger than ever. Echoing Truth deals with the token armies Electrickery is best against, and larger ones too, but it also gets rid of other permanents (and lifting Priveleged Position or Ensnaring Bridge for a turn can get an opponent killed). That, and the option to take back all your Guttersnipes in the face of a board wipe is a great one to have. The only real advantage of Trickery is against little Groundskeeper-type utility guys. Whichever way the deck goes, those two cards are going to be worth it (Unles maybe you need targets for Dizzy Spell or Firemind's Foresight :P).

Finally, there's a thread here, about another U/R Guttersnipe deck. Looks like this is the source of some of Krichaiushii's suggestions!
I have a similar multiplayer deck I'm working on, tentatively called "the Giantkiller" for X-Headed Giant games. It revolves around cards that damage every opponent on the opposing team, thus stacking hellacious damage quickly.

Crackling Perimeter, Lobber Crew, cards like Skull Rend and cheap monocolor Extorters like Basilica Screecher there to smack each opponent, and Extort some life back in the process. My entire land count is made up of guildgates for the crackling perimeters to take advantage of, with 4 greenside watcher to assist in untapping.

In a nutshell, it shuold take down the entire opposing team without needing to attack. Hold the gates has actually served me pretty well, makling my existing weenies big blockers, since it grants toughness based on the number of gates controlled, and every land is a gate.

It starts off slow, but big multiplayer team games we play tend to all start a little slow, while each side builds up a front. But, by turn 4 or so, I can start pumping out the damage. What I really like about this deck, is that as long as I have one crackling perimeter in play, I don't need to attack or even cast spells; any untapped land I have equals instant damage to the opposing team. Big spells like Breath of Malfegor deal equal damage if for any reason I don't have a perimeter out, activates the Guttersnipe and untaps the lobber crew.

    4x Basilica Screecher
    4x Gatecreeper Vine
    4x Greenside Watcher
    4x Guttersnipe
    3x Kingpin's Pet
    4x Lobber Crew

    3x Boros Guildgate
    3x Golgari Guildgate
    4x Gruul Guildgate
    3x Orzhov Guildgate
    4x Rakdos Guildgate
    3x Selesnya Guildgate

    2x Auger Spree
    4x Breath of Malfegor

    4x Sizzle
    4x Skull Rend

    4x Crackling Perimeter
    1x Hold the Gates

I find signatures incredibly distracting. If you read this, then you too have found them distracting. 

Jandrem, your deck looks like it needs more support for the gates = damage win-con, and doesn't have enough reason to run Guttersnipe.  You're running too few sorcery/instant spells to really make it a large threat, and no protection for it.

If I was you, I'd look to centre your strategy on the gate idea, and include cards for it.
You need ways to find your Crackling Perimeter, and ways to find the colours you need in order to actually cast stuff.  As it stands your mana base looks like you'd need a bit of luck to go your way. Focus your manabase on green for the Creeper, and any other land-searching cards you may have.
Sylvan Scrying allows you to grab non-basic gates, but I'd include 2 or 3 Expedition Map instead for their flexibilty. 
Idyllic Tutor (Enlightened Tutors cheaper option) could work, but I would prefer Sterling Grove as it acts as protection on your enchantments, and works well with Replenish (to get your boogey on after someone sweeps your enchantments, and at the same time you get back your tutor for other options too!)
Awakening would be your main win-con with Crackling Perimeter - tap all your lands on every players turn. Even with only 4 lands out, that a helluva beating by the time it gets back to your turn again, and something they HAVE to answer quickly!
I'm still not sold on Greenside Watcher, seems win more for a combo like this.  What about flying defence like Fog Bank, ANgelic Wall, Plumeveil, Sunweb, Wall of Shards, Whip VineWall of Tanglecord seems pretty good here.
Give yourself some protection like Ghostly Prison, wall of blossoms and/or Wall of Omens, maybe Oblivion Ring etc.  Hyuk!  If you go the enchantment route, Verduran Enchantress, Mesa Enchantress or Enchantress's presence could be nice for draw.
4 of Wall of Blossoms, Omens and Gatecreeper Vine, three flying defence and an Eternal Witness.
2 Replenish & 2 or 3 Expedition Map.
4 of Sterling Grove, Crackling Perimeter, Awakening.
3 Ghostly Prison and draw of your choice. I like Presence due to it being harder to remove
2 Hold the Gates, Island Sanctuary.
Lands need only be red, green & white.
4 of Selesnya, Boros &  Gruul Guilgates.   The other land you can make up of others to complement green i guess.
It needs a bit of work of course to improve the  defence against flying and improve answers. Just a quick ideaOblivion Ring might work. 
If you have one, Primeval Titan entering play nets you two Gates, and two every time it attacks.  
Bugger it, I'm gonna start a new thread on this....  

Back to Guttersnipe - after trying to drop the blue filter approach, I've found myself back there again.
I've tried lots of things, and I don't think Kiln Fiend, Wee Dragonauts, Delver or Snipe are even p;ayble with a high creature count.
Chandra's Phoenix is a great card, but running blue filter kills it for me. 
We need no more than 12-14 creatures i think.
Blue filter has been the best way I've found of finding my threats quickly amonst all the other stuff (especially if you have shuffle effects) and making use of them before everyone has an answer or a massive defence.  Without the filter, Kiln Fiend, Delver or Wee's comes out later, or we end up with a hand full of instants/sorceries and no threats... which I really don't like, and Snipe and friends usually end up having to chump a Terra StomperScrew that!
Snipe needs good protection - I think I'll drop my artifacts down to singles - Whispersilk Cloak, & Basilisk Collar, with a 2 or 3 of Fabricate to find what I want.  I like the way even a tutor gives an opponent damage in this deck!!
I think I may include a few Lava Dart too - they're just so cool, and I may include a Static Orb for Fabricate aswell, just to screw the players with greedy decks and buy myself time.
Thanks for the feedback! Some form of tutoring for enchantments would definitely help. Yeah, in hindsight, Guttersnipe isn't doing all that much in that deck. We play pretty big team games, so the 2 damage per opponent thing caught my eye more than how often I'd actually get to use it.

I find signatures incredibly distracting. If you read this, then you too have found them distracting. 

That Guildgate deck would love some Amulet of Vigor and maybe Ogre Jailbreaker.  In fact, as you state you play this in team games, Way of the Thief could make for an awesome addition to slap on one of your teammate's big uglies.


A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. for all your preparation needs. - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
That Guildgate deck would love some Amulet of Vigor and maybe Ogre Jailbreaker.  In fact, as you state you play this in team games, Way of the Thief could make for an awesome addition to slap on one of your teammate's big uglies.


Wow, amulet of vigor would make this deck kill. I never knew that card existed! Thank you! brb buying 4

I find signatures incredibly distracting. If you read this, then you too have found them distracting. 

I have a commander deck that makes use of Guttersnipe, and it might convert to a 60 card deck.  I use Urza lands, and artifact mana to power up a big  Epic Experiment, prefereably in conjunction with Reverberate, or Twincast.  With one Guttersnipe out, ten spells kills the table.
My multiplayer Guttersnipe deck basically revolves around three other cards. Arcane Melee, Ghostly Flicker, and Archaeomancer . It now only costs a single blue to flicker the archaeomancer and an island over and over. and if guttersnipe isn't out. cast a Temporal Fissure or Scattershot and storm to bounce out everyone elses permaments . 
I haven't posted much in the forums much before, but I have been having fun building Izzet decks recently and I thought I could share some of my ideas here...

My guttersnipe deck plays like a control deck, with lots of bounce, counterspell and burn.  I run arcane denial, into the roil, jilt, mana leak, exclude, staggershock, and lighning bolt.  Basically, the idea is to try to get guttersnipe on the field, and try to protect it with counterspells (preferably cantrips), and myself with bounce, while he kills everyone off.  I have found curiosity can work wonders as well (but only two, since it is a dead card without a snipe).  Rite of replication sounds like it would be cool in here, but I am currently using it to copy eldrazi in my cloudpost deck.  I think I may pick up a couple of talrand's invocation to try out in this deck though. 

I recently built another deck that runs kiln fiend, wee dragonauts, and nivix cyclops.  Then I use distortion strike, shadow rift, and uncanny dodge with reckless charge and assault strobe.  I haven't playtested much yet, but the games I have played ended very quickly.  Apostle's blessing can be really good in this deck, and I am trying out disrupt as well.  This deck can be very weak against removal, but you can usually swing for ~18 unblockable on turn 4-5.  I had surrakar spellblade in there too, but my friend suggested to just run more burn.

I am also working on a burning vengeance deck, but I am not sure how well it will work without snapcaster mage (no way I am gonna fork over $20 for that!).  I am actually toying with the idea of going red-black for recoup and innocent blood, rather than the usual red-blue.  I am open to suggestions, but only cards <$1 each...
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