Psionics!!!!!

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Let's not sleep on this one, leaving it for some arbitrary future rule book release. It's a proper player now and many worlds can't be run as intended without it, i.e. Dark Sun. 4e did a great job of finally getting this tricky power addressed correctly and it runs as a first-class citizen instead of the gimick it was in previous editions. I'd like to see it included in the first release of the D&DN PHB.
Psion is slated for phb 1 release last I checked.
Psion is slated for phb 1 release last I checked.


Schweet!  great news.
That is not true. They have pretty much said, explicitly, that the psionisit will not be in the first PHB (though it sounds like wild talents will be). It makes me sad too. I really wish it would be in the first PHB. 
Play a PT3 Sorcerer.  Call your guy a "psionicist".
Play a PT3 Sorcerer.  Call your guy a "psionicist".

Yes, and play a fighter and call it a soulknife, and play a rogue and call it a ghost, because he can ignore locked doors.

* About psionic:

I want the classic pool of ppps (psionic power points).

The wannabe cleric ardent class has got a great potential to create stories about religious conflicts. For example a group of ardent start to push the limits when they are trying create a egregore

* Monks are ki class, only can psi by means of theme/kit/subclass fist of Zuoken.

* Fraals (classic little grey alien) from Star*Drive were canon in AD&D, they could be a psionic PC race.



* I like the name psiloi to be used for a psionice PC class. (the "bare, stripped" ones because they couldn´t buy they were too poors to buy armours). 

* The wilder is a interesting concept, it could be a class again, not only a theme or subclass, but it needs a interesting game mechanic. "Betting" ppps isn´t enough. I suggest other type of risks, for example a "negative pool" to create secondary effects (for example psionic constructs made by subconscient, the id, like tulpas or the monster from the vintage movie "the forbidden planet").

I like imagine it like psionic mutants from comics, gifted with a great power and feared by the people.

* Some incorporeal undeads are "psiques", and I suggest they could use some psionic power.

* I suggest a modular system of monster special attacks. For example if I wish psionic powers for yuan-tis, I replace some powers, deduct the XPs value of eliminated powers and I add the valure of the new one, or I want create a thoon mindslayer cult, and psionic powers are replace by thoon/incarnum/ki powers

* The soulknife should can get ppps by means of a subclass, and to can choose a selection of weapons...(always swords? why not axes, spiked chains or other ones?).

* is tulpa psionic construct?

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

The Wizard tradition that focuses on mind-affecting, divination, outofbody, and telekinesis spells can be called “Psychic” or even “Psionic”.

A later module can expand this basis into a wider set of options, including different classes.
I really did like 4e psionics. I'd be happy to see them in DNDN.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
I would also like Psionics/the Psion included in the 1st PHB, not a later, tacked-on deal; but last word I heard from the designers was "...the psion is currently crying in the corner..."

They mentioned Psionics in the 1st playtest packet. 
They mentioned Psionics in the 1st playtest packet. 

Which was a relatively long time ago, so anything is still possible before release. Personally, I'd bundle psionics as an alternate casting style, and let the other classes pick up the slack. It would remove the need to duplicate spells just to have a "psionic" version.

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They mentioned Psionics in the 1st playtest packet. 

Which was a relatively long time ago, so anything is still possible before release. Personally, I'd bundle psionics as an alternate casting style, and let the other classes pick up the slack. It would remove the need to duplicate spells just to have a "psionic" version.




Total, the old power point system from 3rd Ed; it is easy to extrapolate a system for 5th Ed using the 5th Ed Sorcerer.
I'd like them to take a good long look at Psionics before they are released, even if this means releasing them later. Psions in 4e were fine, but they are assplodingly broken in 3.5. I wish not to have a repeat of that :P
My two copper.
What is the interest of the 3.5 psions ? They were spell point sorcerers.
Even if I think the 4th edition ones were worse, I still prefer no psions than the 3.5 psion.

Why psions should be wizard alternative more than cleric or bard alternative ?
After 3rd and 4th edition, we know that psion as "wizard" sucks to give an identity to the class, and cristal toys didn't help.
It's time to go back to 2nd edition, and try another direction from there IMO.
I'd like them to take a good long look at Psionics before they are released, even if this means releasing them later. Psions in 4e were fine, but they are assplodingly broken in 3.5. I wish not to have a repeat of that :P



And they were still inferior to the big 3 spellcasting classes (cleric, wizard, druid).
That means broken, too.

I don't see psionics in the Basic core.  I might take a look at it in Standard, but I am not sure I want to use Standard classes.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

The point of psionics is that it is a form of energy that originates from within the character that they have learned how to tap into and control. This is what makes them interesting and different than any other caster that is manipulating energies outside themselves, (primal, divine or arcane.) This dynamic makes them natural candidates for controllers. They should excel at that and their powers should reflect that, not just psionic versions of wizard spells.

There is a reason that the 4e psionic system was different, and that's because the ability to focus more energy into an ability can increase it's power. That comes from within. While a wizard can either cast the spell or not. There is a huge difference.

Psionics are very different than all other powers and recognizing it as such is important. I hope they get it right.
I really want to play a Psionic but usually those are banned from our games.  
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Thing is now alternative magic systems are treated on a system-wide level, not class level.
I would like psionics. Actually, I like tons of classes.
Diversifying your classes (divine, martial, arcane ect), and how those classes operate is a direct way of diversifing gameplay. WotC has made it clear that diversified gameplay is a core concept behind DDN. The 3.5 Psionic classes were poorly worded and fleshed out. The 4.0 Psionic classes became obsolete due to the power creep involved with the release of essentials. Unless a player really wanted to play a Psionic, or wanted a specific trait of a Psionic class that was available before it was in other classes there was no rational reason to pick a Psionic character. Wizards get better area effects, and can mind control/charm much sooner the a Psion can! While all the other classes got bonuses, dragon mag releases, and special attention, WotC left Psionics (and PH3 characters in general) out of the party. If I didn't know any better, I would say WotC was trying to make us forget they ever released PH3 or Psionic Power!

It was a bit of a slap in the face. I bought those books, as thin as they were, and ~two years later WotC wants us to switch over to essentials? What ever WotC does with DDN, I hope they do not abandon their own systems again.

Please WotC, if you are reading this, have a clear vision for Psionic classes. Not just as "alternatives" but as true fleshed out heroes. 
Just slap a "Psion" sticker over SWSE's Jedi and import them right in.
If I didn't know any better, I would say WotC was trying to make us forget they ever released PH3 or Psionic Power!

If it's in a core book, then every future supplement can assume that you have it, so they can reference and add to it with impugnity. If it's in a non-core book, then any space spent covering that in a future supplement runs the high risk of becoming wasted space for people who don't own that book. It was a major reason why the core casters became so much more powerful in 3E as the years went by.

If I had one wish for how they release supplements, it would be that everything is entirely self-contained. Give psions their own book, and never reference that material again, but also guarantee that no supplement would ever add additional spells to the wizard/cleric or offer new fighter-specific maneuvers.

The metagame is not the game.
i never used them in my ad&d campaigns but i did like the class and the complete class book on it gave some great ideas for powers the class can have i hope they look at it to help make it in nxt
If I didn't know any better, I would say WotC was trying to make us forget they ever released PH3 or Psionic Power!

If it's in a core book, then every future supplement can assume that you have it, so they can reference and add to it with impugnity. If it's in a non-core book, then any space spent covering that in a future supplement runs the high risk of becoming wasted space for people who don't own that book. It was a major reason why the core casters became so much more powerful in 3E as the years went by.

If I had one wish for how they release supplements, it would be that everything is entirely self-contained. Give psions their own book, and never reference that material again, but also guarantee that no supplement would ever add additional spells to the wizard/cleric or offer new fighter-specific maneuvers.

Shooting wide here, but wouldn't it be interesting if books were released in a format more akin to volumes of an encyclopedia? No more 'Complete This' or 'Source Power' or 'Compendium Whathaveyou', you'd just purchase Annual 1,2,3,etc. That way, it is assumed that players own preceding numbers, but not random sourcebooks that contain narrow information I may or may not have invested in. Just give me an annal of all of it so it's nicely presented, cohesive, and referencable.

Danny

   Psionics is a sci-fi term, not a fantasy one.  Granted D&D has never been big on consistency, but it is still a drawback, and as long as we have terms like sorcerer, warlock, witch, ... that are ligitimate fantasy terms, psionics should go to the back of the line.
     Past psionics systems have included some horribly broken ones.  Again, that tells us to procede with caution, which means psionics will be in PH3 again.
Psionics are pretty big in two of the more popular campaign settings (Eberron and Dark Sun). They would be fools not to include it in 5th Edition.
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I think psionic powers will be core, will be in the first core books. Why? Because players who didn´t buy Expanded psionic hadbook neither they didn´t buy the complete psionic.

But if psionic powers are in the corebook, and in the player handbook 2 (and 3) and in the monster manual 2 (and other monster compendium like Fiend Folio).

I suposse all the new classes with new powers and game mechanic (ki/incarnum, shadow+elemental, pact with vestiges, truename, steampunk artifact...) will be published in the "demi-core" sourcebook like PH 2.. (to later send the "complete ki", "the complete elemental", "the complete psionic").

.... 

Technically the psionic powers were in the AD&D first edition, but the psionic class never was in a corebook.

But the first next PH could have got a psionic subclass, the mentalist/cerebremancer for wizards (and socerers).  

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

I think the game mechanic about pact with vestiges could be used by some warlock subclass. The idea  is too interesting and cool to be fogorten.


About incarnum... I would rather the word "ki". Could you accept a monk subclass with ki maneuvers linked to chakras (=body slots for magic item)?

The game mechanic about truename could be reused for a bard subclass or invoker subclass (the power of the word).


We can imagine the psionic powers can be in the player hanbook (and they can be used by PCs and monsters) but the psionic classes will be in the second player handbook. 

* Could any PC classes be renamed by neologisms, for example psychicmakhus fro phsychic warrior, would it be allowed by gamers? 

---

I like the idea of "soft" plagiarism of jedi knights or the fedaykin from Frank Herbert´s Dune saga. A Soulknife subclass could be like templars from dark suns. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Personally, I'd bundle psionics as an alternate casting style, and let the other classes pick up the slack. It would remove the need to duplicate spells just to have a "psionic" version.


Awesome.

I like the idea of "soft" plagiarism of jedi knights or the fedaykin from Frank Herbert´s Dune saga.

Reusing Jedi isn't even that.
Hasbro owns the mechanical bits.  All they gotta do is strip out Disney's branding.

The point is, that they address the subject in the initial release of the edition and not wait. They don't have to flesh it out completely of course, just don't wait until PH3 to talk about it at all. Sure there will be a Complete Handbook release later to define specializations, but give us the game mechanic for psionics up front so those of us that are hungry for psionics don't have to wait forever just to see them in the game at all.

Feb 14, 2013 -- 12:25PM, Mithrus wrote:

Personally, I'd bundle psionics as an alternate casting style, and let the other classes pick up the slack. It would remove the need to duplicate spells just to have a "psionic" version.


Awesome.



I would like psionics, but presenting one alternate magic system as psionic would not be against the idea of alternate magic systems in the first place?
Feb 14, 2013 -- 12:25PM, Mithruswrote:

Personally, I'd bundle psionics as an alternate casting style, and let the other classes pick up the slack. It would remove the need to duplicate spells just to have a "psionic" version.



Awesome.


I would like psionics, but presenting one alternate magic system as psionic would not be against the idea of alternate magic systems in the first place?

Nope, since at the core of it all is the ability to reflavor the non-mechanical elements. If I'm a wizard casting Fireball, I might speak some jibberish, wave my hands, and toss a small bit of bat turds and sulfer into the air. As a pyrokineticist, I might stare at the area and it gets engulfed in flames (same mechanical effect).

If, for game balance, WotC brings back verbal/somatic restrictions, then there might be a need to tweak the psionic version of spells, since in general, psionics won't have those restrictions. Considering that most people feel a spell point system better mechanizes psionics, I don't see any real mechanical need to create multiple classes that only differ in casting style, but it seems WotC is heading in that direction. An innate caster that uses power points could be a sorcerer/scion(I love that name) or a psion. The difference is the flavor, not the mechanics.

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Force adept, from Star Wars rpg.

I have thought the name "cofrater" (= brother,  member of cofraternity, religious group, there isn´t a exact traslation for Spanish word "cofrade", but it doesn´t matter).

Other name could be phratrier, member of a phratry (members with similar bloodline, for example a aristocraty family with leShay ancestors, people with innate psionic powers or vampire sequacis (= suporters, followers) like ghouls from World of Darkness rpg. 

---

I like the word "sequax" to name a vampire´s henchman who serve him to get some "juice" vampire blood like reward. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 


Feb 15, 2013 -- 9:22AM, cassi_brazuca wrote:

Feb 15, 2013 -- 7:43AM, Haldrik wrote:

Feb 14, 2013 -- 12:25PM, Mithruswrote:


Personally, I'd bundle psionics as an alternate casting style, and let the other classes pick up the slack. It would remove the need to duplicate spells just to have a "psionic" version.



Awesome.


I would like psionics, but presenting one alternate magic system as psionic would not be against the idea of alternate magic systems in the first place?


Nope, since at the core of it all is the ability to reflavor the non-mechanical elements. If I'm a wizard casting Fireball, I might speak some jibberish, wave my hands, and toss a small bit of bat turds and sulfer into the air. As a pyrokineticist, I might stare at the area and it gets engulfed in flames (same mechanical effect).


If, for game balance, WotC brings back verbal/somatic restrictions, then there might be a need to tweak the psionic version of spells, since in general, psionics won't have those restrictions. Considering that most people feel a spell point system better mechanizes psionics, I don't see any real mechanical need to create multiple classes that only differ in casting style, but it seems WotC is heading in that direction. An innate caster that uses power points could be a sorcerer/scion(I love that name) or a psion. The difference is the flavor, not the mechanics.


First: we already have verbal and somatic components. Second: I think that the problem with presenting one magic system as psionic is the flavor of it, because is basically baking up a huge flavor in one magic system. You know, the same reason that people do not like it the idea of "don't like Vancian, play another class" that was presented some time ago. I would not like that my favorite magic system is baked up as psionic only.
Feb 14, 2013 -- 12:25PM, Mithruswrote:

Personally, I'd bundle psionics as an alternate casting style, and let the other classes pick up the slack. It would remove the need to duplicate spells just to have a "psionic" version.



Awesome.


I would like psionics, but presenting one alternate magic system as psionic would not be against the idea of alternate magic systems in the first place?

Nope, since at the core of it all is the ability to reflavor the non-mechanical elements. If I'm a wizard casting Fireball, I might speak some jibberish, wave my hands, and toss a small bit of bat turds and sulfer into the air. As a pyrokineticist, I might stare at the area and it gets engulfed in flames (same mechanical effect).

If, for game balance, WotC brings back verbal/somatic restrictions, then there might be a need to tweak the psionic version of spells, since in general, psionics won't have those restrictions. Considering that most people feel a spell point system better mechanizes psionics, I don't see any real mechanical need to create multiple classes that only differ in casting style, but it seems WotC is heading in that direction. An innate caster that uses power points could be a sorcerer/scion(I love that name) or a psion. The difference is the flavor, not the mechanics.


When the psionicist arrived in 2n edition, I can tell you that mechanics did a lot of difference. It was the first official way to escape vancian spellcasting to play a supernatural class.

For me, reflavored vancian spellcasting tagged psionics, even spell point one from 3rd edition, has absolutly no interest for the psionics concept. I have no nostalgia for the fireball spitting psions from 3rd edition.

And I still see no reasons to use the wizard as the reference for psion concept instead of cleric or bard.
First: we already have verbal and somatic components. Second: I think that the problem with presenting one magic system as psionic is the flavor of it, because is basically baking up a huge flavor in one magic system. You know, the same reason that people do not like it the idea of "don't like Vancian, play another class" that was presented some time ago. I would not like that my favorite magic system is baked up as psionic only.

I'm suggesting having an alternate casting style called "innate magic", that would include 3e-like sorcerers and 3e/4e psions. IMO, classes are primarily mechanics, with attached fluff as a starting point. If the origin of my magical abilities is because I have dragon/demon/angel/elemental ancestral heritage, or because I learned to channel the internal "power within". Could you use spell slots? Sure. Most will prefer some form of "power pool", and using magic taps into that pool. That's why I suggest psionics be integrated into the casting style concept. A cleric and a battlemind could both share the same shell, because both are a hybrid of martial and magical features. Clerics have Domains, and battleminds could use Disciplines or Paths, but in the end it still boils down to a bundle of mechanics that help support the concept. As you can probably tell, I am not in favor of having a gazillion specialized classes. I hasn't worked well in any edition, so I am not sure why they keep trying.

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Shooting wide here, but wouldn't it be interesting if books were released in a format more akin to volumes of an encyclopedia? No more 'Complete This' or 'Source Power' or 'Compendium Whathaveyou', you'd just purchase Annual 1,2,3,etc. That way, it is assumed that players own preceding numbers, but not random sourcebooks that contain narrow information I may or may not have invested in. Just give me an annal of all of it so it's nicely presented, cohesive, and referencable.

That really only markets to someone who intends to buy all of the books anyway (as contrasted with someone who only cares about rangers, for example), and if that's the case then they could solve the whole problem by just making the books easier to reference. If I'm trying to make a warlock, then it's much simpler to be able to narrow it down to either 'Complete Mage' or 'Complete Arcane' rather than trying to remember whether it was in "Annual 1" or "Annual 2".

Really, the only sane way to organize books is in hindsight, once the edition is done and all of the material has been created, but at that point there's no market for a definitive guide to whatever. Even the 3.5 Spell Compendium, ostensibly released at the end of the edition, still missed out on the last few books.

The metagame is not the game.
I would much rather the default (vancian) and any alternate (points, rolls, whatever) mechanical "magic" systems be entirely unflavored.

A Vancian Psion should be just as possible and playable as a Power-Roll Wizard. 
I should have to accept flavor I hate for the mechanics I want, or vice-versa.
If psions use internal powers, why should they be able to display the same power level as wizards or clerics ?
IMO, psions should have more staying power, and develop more precision and versatility to compensate an inferior power level compared to a spellcaster.
If psions use internal powers, why should they be able to display the same power level as wizards or clerics ?
IMO, psions should have more staying power, and develop more precision and versatility to compensate an inferior power level compared to a spellcaster.



This comment confuses me. I think you are making an ill-advised assumption that the internal power accessed by a Psion is somehow weaker than the externally tapped power of other casters.

I also think it's a mistake to try to homogenize psionics with other casting mechanics. They are unique and should be treated as such. The current power point system is fine, I just don't want to wait forever for them to install it with the particulars of the rest of the D&DN rules.