Devil Dwarves and Vampires

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Two questions (they are not related but both are about 3.5 material):

  1. Is there such a thing as "devil dwarves" and if so what book are they in?

  2. Can vampires reproduce sexually or are they limited to the being turned?


Thanks in advance for the help!
1. Sounds a bit like what the Fiendish Template is good for.
2. Libris Mortis has the Half-Vampire that gives some suggestions toward how that might happen.
Two questions (they are not related but both are about 3.5 material):

  1. Is there such a thing as "devil dwarves" and if so what book are they in?

No.

  • Can vampires reproduce sexually or are they limited to the being turned?

  • Sigh...

    Let's look at the biology, just for a second. Let's start with male vampires. Being "turned on" requires increased blood flow to the relevant bits. That's how the luggage gets lifted. Vampires are cold, and don't exactly have a heartbeat. Therefore, it's impossible for them to be "turned on." So, while a particularly fresh vampire might, theoretically, be capable of having a child, it would involve a knife and a turkey baster, and would generally be quite unpleasant.

    Now, for a female, as already covered, arousal is impossible. Now, even if we assume they were ovulating at the moment of becoming a vampire, and the ovum survived the ordeal, and it was fertilized by some necrophiliac, which would be quite unpleasant, putting the member up in a very chilly region like that, it wouldn't exactly grow. Biology and all. 

    If the female was already pregnant, and the child was already viable, I suppose it might be possible, but you may end up with an infant vampire. And that is, of course, leaving out the problems of the child getting out. But, hey, WotC fails at biology. There's a template for it in the Book of Bad Latin.

    So, no, it isn't possible. At least, not without magic. But, if you're involving that particular brand of magic, you might as well go the final step and start producing Emerald Legionaries.
    Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
    Two questions (they are not related but both are about 3.5 material):

    1. Is there such a thing as "devil dwarves" and if so what book are they in?

    No.



    Actually, there are such things as "devil dwarves".  A specific named breed, called the Maeluth.  They are in the Fiend Folio, page 136, under Planetouched.
    following yiur logic EA,vampires coldnt do anything, because their muscles arent supported with ATP wothout blood. but this is a fantasy game, so they prob developed a replacement
    Logically, the answer to #2 must be "yes", since there is a vampire bloodline in Unearthed Arcana.
    "Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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    56788208 wrote:
    I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
    Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
    So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
    When she meets CJ's mom?
    Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
    Actually, there are such things as "devil dwarves".  A specific named breed, called the Maeluth.  They are in the Fiend Folio, page 136, under Planetouched.

    In addition, page 124 of the Monster Manual 2 includes an entry for the Durzagon, a specific kind of half-fiend that results from the crossbreeding of a duergar (gray dwarf) with a powerful devil.
    2. Libris Mortis has the Half-Vampire that gives some suggestions toward how that might happen.

    To elaborate on that, one of the two examples it describes as a way to make half-vampires has a vampire gaining the ability to breed due to recently consuming a significant quantity of blood.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
    Well, EA is at least half right about the boggles of vampire reproduction. One of the stipulations on intercourse related conception concerning a half vampire is that if a vampire drinks enough blood it kick starts their reproductive systems (since vampires don't rot away over time like most forms of undeath, it's assumed that everything is pretty much preserved). Another way a half vampire can come into being is if a pregnant woman survives a blood drain (though I'm not 100% sure of blood drain, thematically it could work (see the Blade comic book series))/energy drain attack from an assaulting vampire. In this case the negative energy warps the baby inside to have characteristics of a vampire via the half vampire template.

    EDIT: Seems Slagger rolled 2d6 of sudden strike damage on the topic well I was typing. Damn ninjas Laughing
    EDIT: Seems Slagger rolled 2d6 of sudden strike damage on the topic well I was typing. Damn ninjas

    Nah, that's my 2d6 base claw damage, and improved grab routine to drag the topic into my space.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
    Why does everyone suddenly wanna run a 50 Shades of Twilight campaign? 
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    Drinking a lot of blood to bone? There is so much wrong with that...
    following yiur logic EA,vampires coldnt do anything, because their muscles arent supported with ATP wothout blood. but this is a fantasy game, so they prob developed a replacement

    Nope. You see, magic has rules. All magic does, as does phlebotium in sci-fi. It is established that they can physically move. However, their organs do not function. No body heat. The soldier saluting occurs because of increased blood flow. Vampires do not have a heartbeat, because their heart doesn't function, and they probably consume their own blood first. Also, even if they could get their flag at full mast, which shouldn't occur in the first place, the rest of that process won't work. The cannon might function, but both shells will be duds.

    Because yay, biology. I don't want to seriously explain this again, especially since I'm running out of euphemisms.
    Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
    To clarify, the devil dwarf question comes from one of my players making a "devil dwarf" for one of my campaigns and forgeting where he found the race.
    The vampire question was just to see about different ways for a person to aquire the vampire template since it looks like my DM is going to satisfy my character's desire to become a vampire by having me fight one at level 6, a prospect I am obviously not thrilled about.
    Right.  50 Shades of Twilight. 
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    Drinking a lot of blood to bone? There is so much wrong with that...
    following yiur logic EA,vampires coldnt do anything, because their muscles arent supported with ATP wothout blood. but this is a fantasy game, so they prob developed a replacement

    Nope. You see, magic has rules. All magic does, as does phlebotium in sci-fi. It is established that they can physically move. However, their organs do not function. No body heat. The soldier saluting occurs because of increased blood flow. Vampires do not have a heartbeat, because their heart doesn't function, and they probably consume their own blood first. Also, even if they could get their flag at full mast, which shouldn't occur in the first place, the rest of that process won't work. The cannon might function, but both shells will be duds.

    Because yay, biology. I don't want to seriously explain this again, especially since I'm running out of euphemisms.



    I think all of that depends simply on how a DM rule vampire physiology to work. If I'm not mistaken one of the old 3.0 Ravonloft books described a vampires internal workings as a complicated network of vein like tubing that ran through the body and connected at the vampires heart whuch in turn connected to it's stomach. The stomach would "digest" the needed components from the blood and the aftermath of the process (refined blood?) would be pumped through the vampire body to sustain it through it's powerful heart.

    Not to mention that the theme that Bram Stoker created with Dracula is often referred to as "the romantic vampire" in genre terms. Seeing as how conjugation is generally considered to be an extension of romance (or vice versa depending on your outlook), just think of the how the dialog would sound in such books if a vampire couldn't "perform".

    Show
    As the swarthy foreign gentleman approached me earlier that night I had no idea what the rest of the night would have in store. He wined and dined me, talked of such intriguing things from literature art, and he even knew much about music. He was beyond complimentary, or even flattery. He was simply seductive, every word dripping with honey. I knew I shouldn't have, but I invited him home for a night cap. Anything to keep the conversation going. I looked into his eyes after finishing off a glass of brandy for the courage to go on with what I was about to say.

    "Take me!, take me now!"

    He immediately froze in place, as if he had no idea how to react, until he responded with all the confidence in the world filling his voice.

    "I'm sorry my dear, but, that's not my thing. You see, years ago I was bitten by a creature of he night. From that night on, I have craved for the blood of the living...and also, I cant get it up since I'm, you know, undead and stuff."

    It was then that I knew that despite all of the romance novels I had ever read, vampires where not a viable fantasy outlet, and I should have probably gone home with the gome playing the lute that night.
    Meh, fluid exchange is fluid exchange.  The 'romance' of the vampire comes from his bite, not his pants.  That's why the bite traditionally targets the neck.  If you'll notice, when a vampire bites it's fairly common that his target displays initial shock and then ecstasy.  The bite is a surrogate for sex.  Simply put, you can't call on literature as some sort of definitive source on vampires bumpin' uglies.

    Oh, and let's stop with the 50 Shades of Twilight crap before someone pukes themselves to death.  Writing that bad combined to flesh out any part of a D&D campaign is suck (no pun intended) too powerful to overcome.   
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    Meh, fluid exchange is fluid exchange.  The 'romance' of the vampire comes from his bite, not his pants.  That's why the bite traditionally targets the neck.  If you'll notice, when a vampire bites it's fairly common that his target displays initial shock and then ecstasy.  The bite is a surrogate for sex.  Simply put, you can't call on literature as some sort of definitive source on vampires bumpin' uglies.

    Oh, and let's stop with the 50 Shades of Twilight crap before someone pukes themselves to death.  Writing that bad combined to flesh out any part of a D&D campaign is suck (no pun intended) too powerful to overcome.   



    Well, I never meant it definitively (which I thought was kind of obvious but if not, my bad), but more or less as a baseline sentiment that the particular capacities of a vampires love life pretty much comes down to whatever A DM says they can or cant do. As an example, the half vampire template suggests that ingesting blood kick starts a vampires reproductive system for a short wile, but if EA where running a game and said no dice due to biology in regards to that scenario there is still surviving an energy drain attack from a vampire slamming a pregnant woman (which sounds horribly wrong). Mean wile you could say that a gentile repose spell keeps things ship shape I suppose. All in all there are many interpretations on what a vampire can and cant do, and thank the entirety of the greyhawk pantheon that WOTC didnt decide to explicitly stat out the bedroom capacities when they made up a vampires stat block.
    Oh, and let's stop with the 50 Shades of Twilight crap before someone pukes themselves to death.  Writing that bad combined to flesh out any part of a D&D campaign is suck (no pun intended) too powerful to overcome.   

    Not our fault you were the only straight male on the planet to read it, bro.  
    "Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
    User Quotes
    56788208 wrote:
    I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
    Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
    So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
    When she meets CJ's mom?
    Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
    According to the Book of Erotic Fantasy (yes, I bought a copy of it), undead cannot have children unless they can preserve their reproductive systems in some way (it mentions the gentle repose spell).  If the spell is allowed to lapse for merely an hour, it's gone (unless a wish or miracle spell is used).
    I think all of that depends simply on how a DM rule vampire physiology to work. If I'm not mistaken one of the old 3.0 Ravonloft books described a vampires internal workings as a complicated network of vein like tubing that ran through the body and connected at the vampires heart whuch in turn connected to it's stomach. The stomach would "digest" the needed components from the blood and the aftermath of the process (refined blood?) would be pumped through the vampire body to sustain it through it's powerful heart.

    It's official that vampires, and basically every other undead I can think of, doesn't have a heartbeat. No heartbeat, no luggage-lifting. So, even if we pretend that they would still produce funk, which is unlikely at best, they'd have to use a knife and a turkey-baster.

    So, if some DMs have vampires that are willing to take sharp implement to their nether-regions, that's their perrogative. But the Book of Bad Latin cuts off the possibility of vamp-boners.
    Not to mention that the theme that Bram Stoker created with Dracula is often referred to as "the romantic vampire" in genre terms. Seeing as how conjugation is generally considered to be an extension of romance (or vice versa depending on your outlook), just think of the how the dialog would sound in such books if a vampire couldn't "perform".

    The entire concept of the sex-predator vampire revolves around the bite replacing the sex. 
    Show
    As the swarthy foreign gentleman approached me earlier that night I had no idea what the rest of the night would have in store. He wined and dined me, talked of such intriguing things from literature art, and he even knew much about music. He was beyond complimentary, or even flattery. He was simply seductive, every word dripping with honey. I knew I shouldn't have, but I invited him home for a night cap. Anything to keep the conversation going. I looked into his eyes after finishing off a glass of brandy for the courage to go on with what I was about to say.

    "Take me!, take me now!"

    He immediately froze in place, as if he had no idea how to react, until he responded with all the confidence in the world filling his voice.

    "I'm sorry my dear, but, that's not my thing. You see, years ago I was bitten by a creature of he night. From that night on, I have craved for the blood of the living...and also, I cant get it up since I'm, you know, undead and stuff."

    It was then that I knew that despite all of the romance novels I had ever read, vampires where not a viable fantasy outlet, and I should have probably gone home with the gome playing the lute that night.



    Also, BoEF is 3rd party. It should be obvious, because even hung-over from the most debauched celebrations, even WotC can't write that poorly.
    Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
    I think all of that depends simply on how a DM rule vampire physiology to work. If I'm not mistaken one of the old 3.0 Ravonloft books described a vampires internal workings as a complicated network of vein like tubing that ran through the body and connected at the vampires heart whuch in turn connected to it's stomach. The stomach would "digest" the needed components from the blood and the aftermath of the process (refined blood?) would be pumped through the vampire body to sustain it through it's powerful heart.

    It's official that vampires, and basically every other undead I can think of, doesn't have a heartbeat. No heartbeat, no luggage-lifting. So, even if we pretend that they would still produce funk, which is unlikely at best, they'd have to use a knife and a turkey-baster.

    So, if some DMs have vampires that are willing to take sharp implement to their nether-regions, that's their perrogative. But the Book of Bad Latin cuts off the possibility of vamp-boners.
    Not to mention that the theme that Bram Stoker created with Dracula is often referred to as "the romantic vampire" in genre terms. Seeing as how conjugation is generally considered to be an extension of romance (or vice versa depending on your outlook), just think of the how the dialog would sound in such books if a vampire couldn't "perform".

    The entire concept of the sex-predator vampire revolves around the bite replacing the sex. 
    Show
    As the swarthy foreign gentleman approached me earlier that night I had no idea what the rest of the night would have in store. He wined and dined me, talked of such intriguing things from literature art, and he even knew much about music. He was beyond complimentary, or even flattery. He was simply seductive, every word dripping with honey. I knew I shouldn't have, but I invited him home for a night cap. Anything to keep the conversation going. I looked into his eyes after finishing off a glass of brandy for the courage to go on with what I was about to say.

    "Take me!, take me now!"

    He immediately froze in place, as if he had no idea how to react, until he responded with all the confidence in the world filling his voice.

    "I'm sorry my dear, but, that's not my thing. You see, years ago I was bitten by a creature of he night. From that night on, I have craved for the blood of the living...and also, I cant get it up since I'm, you know, undead and stuff."

    It was then that I knew that despite all of the romance novels I had ever read, vampires where not a viable fantasy outlet, and I should have probably gone home with the gome playing the lute that night.



    Also, BoEF is 3rd party. It should be obvious, because even hung-over from the most debauched celebrations, even WotC can't write that poorly.



    If your going by official rules then you run into the problem that there is a half vampire template and a vampire blood line. Like I said, DM adjudication is probably the best rout to go, but just because real world biology dosn't over lap with in game mechanics doesn't mean that RAW stats a vampire cant get it on. You could just as easily say that negative energy replaces the need for blood when it comes to stimulating the needed equipment. It all pretty much comes down to DM fiat since there is no 3.5 source material called "The Tome of Fornication".
    I've already addressed the problem of half-vampires. Take a knive, open up the artillery shells, remove the funk, get a turkey baster, and... well, I'm sure you can take it from there. Quite unpleasant, I'd imagine.
    Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
    I've already addressed the problem of half-vampires. Take a knive, open up the artillery shells, remove the funk, get a turkey baster, and... well, I'm sure you can take it from there. Quite unpleasant, I'd imagine.



    Just to clarify you are aware that the book libris mortis details that a vampire can reproduce if it drinks, and I quote, "a substantial amount of blood"-which results in a half vampire right? Just thought I'd point out that it wasn't a random caveat I just came up with to be clear.
    Yes.  Libris Mortis describes it as rare (presumably because it's uncommon for a vampire to drink the required amount, and copulate, and also achieve fertilization even if they've got the same chance as a human), but indicates that it works.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
    I've already addressed the problem of half-vampires. Take a knive, open up the artillery shells, remove the funk, get a turkey baster, and... well, I'm sure you can take it from there. Quite unpleasant, I'd imagine.



    Just to clarify you are aware that the book libris mortis details that a vampire can reproduce if it drinks, and I quote, "a substantial amount of blood"-which results in a half vampire right? Just thought I'd point out that it wasn't a random caveat I just came up with to be clear.

    Yes, I am aware. It isn't quite as simple as that, though, because even if we accept that blood allows the prosate and sack to function, no heartbeat means he's still SoL on the hard-on. Meaning, knife and turkey baster.
    Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
    It isn't quite as simple as that, though, because even if we accept that blood allows the prosate and sack to function, no heartbeat means he's still SoL on the hard-on. Meaning, knife and turkey baster.

    Maybe it means the vampire has or gains a heartbeat (technically, I don't recall an official statement that vampires lack one), maybe they can control their blood in nonhuman ways, maybe it just means having enough blood inside their veins to make it work anyway.  For different races of humanoids and monstrous humanoids, it may not even matter that much depending on how closely their anatomy resembles a human (humans being unusual in lacking a baculum).

    We know they're capable of breeding if they've got enough blood because the book says so and the exact physiological mechanisms involved aren't terribly important as long as there's a possibility that works.

    Though to address a technical point on the original question, they don't produce more vampires even when they do breed.  The only normal way to get more genuine vampires is by having a vampire use their create spawn ability on an appropriate creature.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
    Well, I never meant it definitively (which I thought was kind of obvious but if not, my bad), but more or less as a baseline sentiment that the particular capacities of a vampires love life pretty much comes down to whatever A DM says they can or cant do. As an example, the half vampire template suggests that ingesting blood kick starts a vampires reproductive system for a short wile, but if EA where running a game and said no dice due to biology in regards to that scenario there is still surviving an energy drain attack from a vampire slamming a pregnant woman (which sounds horribly wrong). Mean wile you could say that a gentile repose spell keeps things ship shape I suppose. All in all there are many interpretations on what a vampire can and cant do, and thank the entirety of the greyhawk pantheon that WOTC didnt decide to explicitly stat out the bedroom capacities when they made up a vampires stat block.



    All I'm sayin' is that a 'they say they can get it up in books' isn't a very impressive argument cuz, well, they don't.  Like EA said - and for reasons unknown it seems that this is missed by more than one of you - the bite is the sex.  I understand it's what some would consider subtle (lord knows why), but that's the case.  A vampire's bite is sex.  There's penetration and fluid exchange.  It's quite often written as pleasurable for both parties - though the victim often questions whether they fully want what's happening to happen because, well, it feels sorta wrong.  Kinda like how sex is presented in a lot of books, no?

    Meh, saying some books say they can do it is just wrong.  If any books actually do, they're missing the entire point.  It's simply a twist on sex - that's all.  Therefore there's obviously no need for actual sex since they've got that pretty well covered.

    Not our fault you were the only straight male on the planet to read it, bro.  



    Yes it is! 
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    Well, I never meant it definitively (which I thought was kind of obvious but if not, my bad), but more or less as a baseline sentiment that the particular capacities of a vampires love life pretty much comes down to whatever A DM says they can or cant do. As an example, the half vampire template suggests that ingesting blood kick starts a vampires reproductive system for a short wile, but if EA where running a game and said no dice due to biology in regards to that scenario there is still surviving an energy drain attack from a vampire slamming a pregnant woman (which sounds horribly wrong). Mean wile you could say that a gentile repose spell keeps things ship shape I suppose. All in all there are many interpretations on what a vampire can and cant do, and thank the entirety of the greyhawk pantheon that WOTC didnt decide to explicitly stat out the bedroom capacities when they made up a vampires stat block.



    All I'm sayin' is that a 'they say they can get it up in books' isn't a very impressive argument cuz, well, they don't.  Like EA said - and for reasons unknown it seems that this is missed by more than one of you - the bite is the sex.  I understand it's what some would consider subtle (lord knows why), but that's the case.  A vampire's bite is sex.  There's penetration and fluid exchange.  It's quite often written as pleasurable for both parties - though the victim often questions whether they fully want what's happening to happen because, well, it feels sorta wrong.  Kinda like how sex is presented in a lot of books, no?

    Meh, saying some books say they can do it is just wrong.  If any books actually do, they're missing the entire point.  It's simply a twist on sex - that's all.  Therefore there's obviously no need for actual sex since they've got that pretty well covered.



    I think you've misunderstood my point. What I mean to say is that it's best left up to the DM to determine the sexual capacities of various undead, in this case a vampire, since it is a mythical creature, based in fiction. That being said, I have to disagree with your stance a bit. It's a defiant fact that 100% of vampire based literature does not say a vampire can't get it up, and as a matter of fact even if you subscribe to "the bite replaces sex" idea, there are plenty of stories in which it simply enhances the act as apposed to replacing it. In the end that matter is best left to the discretion of the author penning the story in the first place, so saying that a vampire can't because books say, and if they don't it should be assumed they cant, is in my mind a bad argument. Either way I don't care to much since I rarely play vampires, and even then sexual encounters hardly ever come up in my games unless they're persuide by fellow players, I just felt like a few angles needed to be looked at aside from dead people don't/can't copulate even if they are animate.
    "Many books?" What, Fifty Shades of Twilight has a sequel? And you actuall read that trash?
    Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
    I think you've misunderstood my point. What I mean to say is that it's best left up to the DM to determine the sexual capacities of various undead, in this case a vampire, since it is a mythical creature, based in fiction. That being said, I have to disagree with your stance a bit. It's a defiant fact that 100% of vampire based literature does not say a vampire can't get it up, and as a matter of fact even if you subscribe to "the bite replaces sex" idea, there are plenty of stories in which it simply enhances the act as apposed to replacing it. In the end that matter is best left to the discretion of the author penning the story in the first place, so saying that a vampire can't because books say, and if they don't it should be assumed they cant, is in my mind a bad argument. Either way I don't care to much since I rarely play vampires, and even then sexual encounters hardly ever come up in my games unless they're persuide by fellow players, I just felt like a few angles needed to be looked at aside from dead people don't/can't copulate even if they are animate.



    Yeah ... I see there's a fundamental misunderstanding here.  That's ... umm ... it's ok.  Really.  If anything it's a failure on my part.  I need to remember where I am.  Considering one's audience is pretty important.
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    Not just books - a variety of sources. The Dresden Files, the Anita Blake series, True Blood Vampire Diaries.
    Would it not be plausible that Stoker & other, older authors had the bite replace sex because it "just wasn't done" to actually write about sex?
    "Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
    User Quotes
    56788208 wrote:
    I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
    Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
    So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
    When she meets CJ's mom?
    Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
    "Many books?" What, Fifty Shades of Twilight has a sequel? And you actuall read that trash?



    No, I don't (though I do have a decent amount of  knowledge of the so called plot from a decent amount of women trying to tell me about the book and try and change my mind about it), but twilight is far from the only vampire book series/story where a vampire has explicitly had relations with a human or another vampire. Anyone ever watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer when they where younger? What about the spin off show Angel? A bunch of vampires in both of those shows had sexual encounters on several occasions.

    A friend of mine reads a lot of vampire themed novels with his wife and could probably list at least five separate series that detail vampire/human sexual relationship. It's been a wile since I've delved into anything vampire related myself (so I'm having trouble quoting a title at the moment), and by a wile I mean probably close to a decade since it was around my teens that I read the bulk of anything I had on the matter. But that aside I fail to see how copulation between a vampire and a human immediately makes a book trash, as apposed to humans getting it on.

    Twilight is pretty much considered trash by most people I know because Bella Swan is a one dimensional character with no substance and all the men in the book are either stoic abusive types or overly attached possessive types, who pretty much fight over Bella for an undisclosed reason (as her looks are never actually detailed, let alone is she ever described as pretty save for her name means beautiful swan, from what I know her personality is, well, that of a twilight protagonist).

    In the end though sex is sex, and provided it isn't done with a minor in a manner that depicts the act as a good thing (as apposed to say something like the book Lolita where pretty much every characters morals where suspect) or an animal or something twisted like that, it's pretty vanilla to me as long as whips, chains, and forceful sodomy aren't brought into the fold.

    EDIT: got ninjad by a couple of post prior to putting this up. Draco coverd a few good points, and if I'm not mistaken the origional writer of the true blood series actualy write a decent amount on the seelie and unseelie courts for D&D now that I think of it, though I'm not 100% sure on that. I'll look into that later.
    Not just books - a variety of sources. The Dresden Files, the Anita Blake series, True Blood Vampire Diaries. Would it not be plausible that Stoker & other, older authors had the bite replace sex because it "just wasn't done" to actually write about sex?



    Umm ... isn't it also plausible that they were just more talented?  Anyone can describe sex. 
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    I wouldn't exactly say so. There is a distinct difference between say a written love seen in a movie executed with taste which displays a romantic sentiment and a scene which is purely pornographic. Like I said, what is it exactly about writing a sex scene that detracts from the skill level of what is written? Brent Weeks's Night Angel trilogy depicts plenty of sexual acts, ad does the game of thrones books. Both are decent and well written stories that include sexual encounters. Sometime adult themes need to be addressed in adult stories, and if done with taste can be enriching to the story.
    The sheer number of romance novels available says you're completely wrong.
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    Once again, just because something is done bad, doesn't mean it cant be done good. Romance novels are generally meant to be pumped out fast, poorly written, and to play to the desires of lonely people looking for excitement. They're an industry that thrives on how cheep and easy it is to produce something versus the demand for it. Comparatively, a gourmet hamburger can be exquisitely delicious and well prepared, and just because McDonalds churns out faux beef paddys on cheep buns doesn't rob what a genuine chief can do. A properly written romance plot line in a well written book can be fun and enriching, giving a character the drive to conquer kingdoms and slay gods all for the sake of his romance well humanizing what is essential otherwise something so far removed from oneself. It all comes down to the execution of the writing (although subject matter is important, I can stomach a well written romance novel better than a half assed fantasy novel, well comparatively if I was offered a mediocre version of one or the other, I'd go for the fantasy book).
    dood, it helps if we try to have the same conversation.  I said anyone can describe sex.  You denied that.  I countered with that whole bajillion romance novels says your wrong thing.  Now you're trying to talk about something being done bad not precluding the same said something being done good - which is something only you are talking about. 

    By the way, that whole 'McDonald's fake beef' thing has been utterly debunked. 
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

     No, I don't (though I do have a decent amount of  knowledge of the so called plot from a decent amount of women trying to tell me about the book and try and change my mind about it), but twilight is far from the only vampire book series/story where a vampire has explicitly had relations with a human or another vampire. Anyone ever watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer when they where younger? What about the spin off show Angel? A bunch of vampires in both of those shows had sexual encounters on several occasions.

    The difference is that Whedonpires have blood, breath, a beating heart, and, while cold, are warmer than room temperature. They're demons, rather than glorified zombies.
    A friend of mine reads a lot of vampire themed novels with his wife and could probably list at least five separate series that detail vampire/human sexual relationship. It's been a wile since I've delved into anything vampire related myself (so I'm having trouble quoting a title at the moment), and by a wile I mean probably close to a decade since it was around my teens that I read the bulk of anything I had on the matter. But that aside I fail to see how copulation between a vampire and a human immediately makes a book trash, as apposed to humans getting it on.

    Uh, necrophillia is gross? Also, every single book in the genre is an attempt to coast on the popularity of Ann Rice or Twiblight.
    In the end though sex is sex, and provided it isn't done with a minor in a manner that depicts the act as a good thing (as apposed to say something like the book Lolita where pretty much every characters morals where suspect) or an animal or something twisted like that, it's pretty vanilla to me as long as whips, chains, and forceful sodomy aren't brought into the fold.

    I'll say again, necrophillia. Also, teens+creepers over a century old=creepy.

    Also, in general, sex scenes are an excuse to distract from a poorly-written crappy plot.
    Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
    At the risk of being well off topic and also of poor taste a lot of "romance novels" could just viewed as an alternative form of adult entertainment without any physical pictures.  Just like in an medium the quality of the work can vary tremendously.
    *sigh*

    I just spelled it out.  I never said that bad writing in a certain genre means that all writing in said genre must be bad.  What I did say was that anyone can write sex - as evidenced by the ridiculous amount of romance novels on sale as we speak.  Does anyone read what people actually write here?  I swear, it's like talking on the 4e or 5e boards in here today.
    Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

    Section Six Soldier

    Front Door of the House of Trolls

    [b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

    Reading your posts would imply that the reader cares about your opinion. Apparently I'm the only one who gives a what you think. And I already disagreed with your main point.
    "Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
    User Quotes
    56788208 wrote:
    I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
    Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
    So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
    When she meets CJ's mom?
    Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
    Either the content of existing fiction that serves as the basis of vampire treatment in D&D counts, in which case at least some vampries can obviously breed, or it doesn't, in which case we've got an official D&D source indicating that vampires are capable of breeding under the right circumstances, and nothing official indicating that they can't breed.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.