Advice on a Revenant Paladin|Warlock

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Build Summary
Summanus, level 8

Revenant, Paladin/Warlock
Hybrid Paladin Option: Hybrid Paladin Reflex
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid) Option: Dark Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock Option: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent Option: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Choose your Race in Life: Goliath
Pact (+2 to Religion)
Theme: Reaver

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 16, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 20

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 14, DEX 12, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 16


AC: 27 Fort: 19 Ref: 22 Will: 23
HP: 64 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 16

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +10, Intimidate +16, Religion +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +3, Athletics +1, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, History +3, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Stealth +2, Streetwise +9, Thievery +2

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Reaver Attack: Vicious Assault
Revenant Utility: Dark Reaping
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Warlock's Curse Power: Warlock's Curse
Paladin Attack 1: Enfeebling Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Echoing Dirge
Paladin Attack 1: Valorous Smite
Paladin Attack 1: Majestic Halo
Paladin Utility 2: Bless Weapon
Warlock Attack 3: Delban's Deadly Attention
Warlock Attack 5: Hellsworn Blessing
Religion Utility 6: Deliverance of Faith
Paladin Attack 7: Astral Thunder

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent (Paladin Armor Proficiency)
Level 2: Devout Protector Expertise
Level 4: Crimson Fire
Level 6: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades)
Level 8: Superior Will

ITEMS
Ebon Plate Armor +2 x1
Amulet of Physical Resolve +2 x1
Sunblade Longsword +2 x1
Heavy Shield

 
The only requirements for this character are that he be a Revenant, past life Goliath, worships the Raven Queen, and wields a longsword. Story fluff (resurrected PC, mission to destroy undead, etc.), but I'd like to stick to it. The rest of the party is a Wizard, Artificer, Rogue, Ranger (bow), and Cavalier.

First, any advice for improving the character as it is? I'm torn on my Level 5 Warlock Daily; take Hellsworn Blessing and buff the Rogue pretty decently for the encounter, or Decree of Khirad for mass-Sanction combo hilarity?

Second, how can I be most effective helping this party? Should I focus more on defending, mark punishment, etc., to help make up for the Cavalier's shortcomings, or should I try to be more of a striker and just worry about killing things as fast as possible? It's a pretty squishy group (aside from the Cav), but a dead enemy presents no threat.

Finally, what recommendations do you have for Paragon Paths? Avenging Haunt fits flavour and can start him down the "unkillable Revenant" road; Questing Knight also looks pretty awesome; many of the better Warlock PPs seem to lose out a lot for a hybrid (no Pact Boon in particular).

Thanks in advance!
Decree of Khirad over Hellsworn Blessing (actually, lots of things over Hellsworn Blessing)


If you want to be a better team member, do what you are good at. Striker is not your first area of competence. Mass mark, draw attention, and let the rogue, ranger worry about them. the artificer should buff them, and the wizard shoudl worry about those not marked.
The cavalier should in my opinion recreate his character, but that's a different conversation.



Should we discuss the Dark Pact, Echoing Dirge, or that you might be better off with the Yakuza time for some surrender fun ?


      
One of these days, id like the examine the feasibility of a Cavalier/Warlock using Eldritch strike at-will for the white lotus riposte feats (since the defender aura doesnt actually "mark" things).
One of these days, id like the examine the feasibility of a Cavalier/Warlock using Eldritch strike at-will for the white lotus riposte feats (since the defender aura doesnt actually "mark" things).

Works better as a Half-Elf Knight.
One of these days, id like the examine the feasibility of a Cavalier/Warlock using Eldritch strike at-will for the white lotus riposte feats (since the defender aura doesnt actually "mark" things).

Works better as a Half-Elf Knight.



I looked at that but there are some downsides, mostly in terms of feat and level investment:


1) Requires starting at Paragon (to use the dillente at will via a feat)
     - Thereby Pushes Master Riposte to level 12 (as opposed to 11 for the hybrid)
     - Gets Pushed to 14 if you dont want to be stuck with a high Chrisma Stat 
2) Requires Multiclassing an arcane class (Feat requirment)


The Hybrid can get the combo going (the heroic riposte form) at level 2 (Level 1 is Hybrid Talent) and be Charisma Primary with a striker feature on his primary at-will attack (and the master riposte counter attack)

-Both classes have problems with forced movement. The knight punishment deals more potential damage but is less reliable. Ill Grant that stances do give the knight an edge.           

   
     

Decree of Khirad over Hellsworn Blessing (actually, lots of things over Hellsworn Blessing)

If you want to be a better team member, do what you are good at. Striker is not your first area of competence. Mass mark, draw attention, and let the rogue, ranger worry about them. the artificer should buff them, and the wizard shoudl worry about those not marked.
The cavalier should in my opinion recreate his character, but that's a different conversation.

Should we discuss the Dark Pact, Echoing Dirge, or that you might be better off with the Yakuza time for some surrender fun ?


Thanks baldhermit, advice much appreciated.

  1. I picked Dark Pact just for the anti-undead flavour; without the boon I didn't see much difference between them. I forgot about Sorcerer-King/Mindbite Scorn though... anything else worth considering?

  2. Echoing Dirge seems amazing for a melee-based fighter: close blast 5, two targets, psychic, push. Rated SkyBlue in DuelistDelSol's Warlock Handbook. I know Eldritch Strike's slide is more commonly abusable, but Echoing Dirge seems like a worthy choice. Is it because I have no CHA-based MBA with this build (yet)?

  3. Yakuza's fun, but I don't trust this DM to give us much slack with Intimidate attempts. I thought Reaver offered some nice basic damage boosts; also looked at Bloodswarn and Haunted Blade to suit flavour and still be somewhat effective. Maybe Guardian?

Just a note (which I get told a lot X0 ) you can always just re-fluff  if your DM allows it, you could choose any pact (for example) you like and just call it something else (or nothing at all and just an inherent power of your Character)


Realize this isn’t an option at every table, but it’s a way to RP the way you want and still kick ass ChrSheet wise. 


Also I would sit down with your party and compare sheets and see if there are any tactical combos you can pull off (ex. One player makes target  weak to fire, next turn another player uses fire attack)

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

I looked at that but there are some downsides, mostly in terms of feat and level investment:


1) Requires starting at Paragon (to use the dillente at will via a feat)
     - Thereby Pushes Master Riposte to level 12 (as opposed to 11 for the hybrid)
     - Gets Pushed to 14 if you dont want to be stuck with a high Chrisma Stat 
2) Requires Multiclassing an arcane class (Feat requirment)


The Hybrid can get the combo going (the heroic riposte form) at level 2 (Level 1 is Hybrid Talent) and be Charisma Primary with a striker feature on his primary at-will attack (and the master riposte counter attack)

-Both classes have problems with forced movement. The knight punishment deals more potential damage but is less reliable. Ill Grant that stances do give the knight an edge.           

   
     


Melee Training: Con. You are a Standard Knight throughout Heroic now. Which is a very good place to be, overall, the extra HP and surges is just icing. A much better place than a Cavalier|Warlock as far as Heroic goes, really.

Also: Retraining. You get it at 12 no matter what.

Everyone multi-classes, that is not a downside. There are maybe two really optimized builds in CharOp that do no have a multiclass.

The Knight is 95%+ accurate. His punishment is an MBA, the single easiest attack to boost to ridiculous levels of accuracy in the whole game.
Don't post in a different font color, it makes you look like a pretentious ****.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Don't post in a different font color, it makes you look like a pretentious ****.



My Apologies, that was not my intention.


Edit: Ive deleted my off topic post (refered to by Zathris) It was offtopic and the presmise was laregly wrong anyways.   


Loving how this thread from someone asking for help just gets hijacked by two people for some of their personal issues.

 
I picked Dark Pact just for the anti-undead flavour; without the boon I didn't see much difference between them. I forgot about Sorcerer-King/Mindbite Scorn though... anything else worth considering?

  1. Echoing Dirge seems amazing for a melee-based fighter: close blast 5, two targets, psychic, push. Rated SkyBlue in DuelistDelSol's Warlock Handbook. I know Eldritch Strike's slide is more commonly abusable, but Echoing Dirge seems like a worthy choice. Is it because I have no CHA-based MBA with this build (yet)?

  2. Yakuza's fun, but I don't trust this DM to give us much slack with Intimidate attempts. I thought Reaver offered some nice basic damage boosts; also looked at Bloodswarn and Haunted Blade to suit flavour and still be somewhat effective. Maybe Guardian?



a defender without MBA is just sad.

Reaver grants your allies more damage, not you yourself so much.

And as said above, if you stick with the mechanical workings, you can flavor it any way you want. You could go say "Ironwrought" and just describe it as your character being naturally resilient.   

Seeing as How I am the one who tried to derail the thread, I definately owe the OP a genuine attempt at advice. As it stands you have 2 stirkers, a controller, a leader + You. The bases are set. cavaliers are considered to be the weakest defender here, but they still can defend somewhat (is he grabbing any divine sanction powers?)


If you want to be a defender, take advantage of the cavaliers small niche. He is probably really mobile on a mount, with a easy means of putting a weaker punishment on groups of monsters. As a second, defender your group could benefit from you focusing on a strong single target lockdowns (You handle the elite/solo/biggest threat) while the cavalier gathers ties up the weaker enemies. . I would advise focusing on single target debuffs over aoe marking (as it wrecks havok on a defender aura.)

edit:
there is a post linked to in the stickied collection of guides thread for multi defender parties.  
You're assuming he is competent. Having never met or heard of this player, I tend to be cautious of those who pick e-classes for defenders.
Eldritch Strike.  +3 proficiency flail.  Flail Expertise.  Your MBA now prones which means the DM has to think hard about provoking from you, and you've just become a bit stickier.

Add in Purple Dragon for a theme and you get +1 to hit on Eldritch Strike.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
Decree of Khirad over Hellsworn Blessing (actually, lots of things over Hellsworn Blessing)

If you want to be a better team member, do what you are good at. Striker is not your first area of competence. Mass mark, draw attention, and let the rogue, ranger worry about them. the artificer should buff them, and the wizard shoudl worry about those not marked.
The cavalier should in my opinion recreate his character, but that's a different conversation.

Should we discuss the Dark Pact, Echoing Dirge, or that you might be better off with the Yakuza time for some surrender fun ?


Thanks baldhermit, advice much appreciated.

  1. I picked Dark Pact just for the anti-undead flavour; without the boon I didn't see much difference between them. I forgot about Sorcerer-King/Mindbite Scorn though... anything else worth considering?

  2. Echoing Dirge seems amazing for a melee-based fighter: close blast 5, two targets, psychic, push. Rated SkyBlue in DuelistDelSol's Warlock Handbook. I know Eldritch Strike's slide is more commonly abusable, but Echoing Dirge seems like a worthy choice. Is it because I have no CHA-based MBA with this build (yet)?

  3. Yakuza's fun, but I don't trust this DM to give us much slack with Intimidate attempts. I thought Reaver offered some nice basic damage boosts; also looked at Bloodswarn and Haunted Blade to suit flavour and still be somewhat effective. Maybe Guardian?



If you wanted a Charisma based MBA you can take Virtuous strike ove Enfeebling strike. EnS is a better defender power with some neat buffs if going against alot of undead but your choices for a MBA boil down to VirStrike, EldStrike or Melee train Charisma. Eldritch Strike offers a slide but since your wielding a long sword out side MoS and Lightning Weapon not much op happening there.

As for mass marking you could go for call of challenge as you U2 and go with a Warlock U@6 and the skill power feat could get you back your THP generator in Deliverance of Faith(Religion). Even if a Pallock you should try to focus on defending.

With paragon paths. I really don't know but Questing Knight is good and if you wanted to go for "more" flavor the Soul Reaper PP is out there.

 IIRC you can two-fold pact into a second pact in paragon inorder to gain a full pact. 

Knight Hospitaler is a good theme also.