Hauling an 800 lb statue?

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My group of level 2s just finished clearing a dungeon and we got about 4K in gold and items but also found a statue in the dungeon worth 4K gold but it wieghs 800 lbs. Given that the completion of the dungeon took us from start of level 2 to nearly finishing it and the average loot amounts it would seem the statue is suppose to be part of our reward so our character's wealth is at the correct level.

The problem is we did not really have any way to haul it back to town. We ended up leaving it behind while we walked back with the rest of our stuff, which was thousands of coins and thus hundreds of pounds. Some of the party want to go back to retrieve it but we still lack the means to carry it.

Telser's Floating Disk was suggested but it only carries 100 lbs per level. The book has pricing guides on the services of mages so we would need to find a level 8 mage willing to transverse the wilderness and retrieve it with us. This was suggested near the end of the session but the GM seemed to indicate we would have trouble finding a level 8 mage willing to do it in the town as the session wrapped up.

So given that I'm looking for less magically means of hauling it back. We planned on buying horses so I figure we could potentially use them. The problem however is there is nothing to put the statue on while they pull it. The wieght limit on wagons, carts, and etc is all less than 800 lb. I don't have the book with me now but 600 lbs was the highest I remember seeing.

So my question is what options do we have for retrieving the statue and bringing it back to town?

I love these sort of things that greed overrides common sense.

If they find a level 8+ mage, then more issues occur:

The level 8 mage may charge a huge sum of gold for his service:
1. cost for spell cast each time
2. cost to travel to and back
If the distance from statue site to town is a long distance, wizard might need to cast the tenser spell a few times...gets real expensive per spell cast.

If the party decides to melt it, how?
Gold may be a soft metal but it takes more than a bonfire to melt the thing to liquid form.

If they manage to melt it into several pieces of lesser weight, what will they melt it in to make them smaller pieces?

They should be happy what they got and cut their losses on the statue.






 
How strong are your characters?  Reading the SRD on lifting/carrying it would seem to me that a STR 14 human should be able to drag an 800 lb statue.  It may not be fast but it should be doable.  If multiple character do the pulling it should defintely be possible even with lower STR characters.

I also believe you are misreading the chart where it talks about Transports.  The weights you see are the weight of the actual cart/wagon/carrage/ect. and NOT a limit on what they can carry. Now you'd add those weights to the total load that it pulled but when they have wheels they should make the overall load easier to pull.  Generally, it should be assumed that you can load a wagon with as much stuff as the beasts up burden can pull.  Your 800 pound statue should be no problem to pull in a cart anlthoughloading/lifting it could be a challenge.
The simplest solution may be the best here. Use a block and tackle to get it into a wagon, then take the wagon to market. Alternatively grab some rods (logs are the cheapest) and roll the statue over them.

This is in addition to StevenO's observations, which are right on point.

Finally, if the value of the statue is in its material instead of in its construction (i.e. is it 800lbs of saleable metal, or is it worth 4k because it's the work of a lost civilization?), you can just melt it down on the spot, although this would be difficult if it's made out of really tough metal.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

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Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

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Alternately, you could hire a bunch of really stoned college students to prove that logs, block & tackles can be used to build pyramids and erect statues on Easter island, 800 miles from the quarry...
If your campaign has psionics, and it seems that doing the dragging and/or carry-by-wagon is too much of a hassle, then Skate is an option. Of course, this involves a third party which might steal the statue. Also, the duration of Skate is short.
If your campaign has psionics, and it seems that doing the dragging and/or carry-by-wagon is too much of a hassle, then Skate is an option. Of course, this involves a third party which might steal the statue. Also, the duration of Skate is short.


Skate is worse for this purpose than Tenser's because the power has the same weight limit and they're not high level enough to do it themselves.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

 

5e Eberron homebrew rules | Discussion: 5e Artificer

New idea, see if you can 'rent' a type III bag of holding or a portable hole!

Although it may seem like a lot 800 lbs. isn't all that much weight to move and if you consider what ancient Humans could do it should be really easy to in a fantasy setting.
 
1. Walk back to town with all of this loot.
2. Store it with some "trusting" person.
3. Buy a wagon, maybe some hired hands, and go back.
4. Meanwhile, hostile mobs may have returned from patrol or wandering mobs may have moved in.
5. Trusting person watching the characters' wealth decides to skip town with the wealth  after the players leave town with wagon.
6. If the party did not heal up from battle wounds after leaving the dungeon, they may encounter some ambushing mobs while the unsuspecting wounded PCs busy themselves with the statue.
7. Manage to get statue on to wagon if survived the ambush.
8. Return back to town.
9. Need to find who will buy an 800 lb statue.
10. It is an oddity.
11. May need to pay someone to melt it down to ingots to sale.

Greedy players, greedy townfolk.
Gold is indeed a hard mistress to keep.
 

Use the sunder rules to smash it into manageable bits. Sure you destroyed the artistic value, but the raw gold material has to be worth something. 


Or just push it onto a sled, and drag the sled back to town as a team. 

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Look, it's hard to move but far from impossible to move.  As already mentioned it's value IS what it should be if part of the "normal" loot gained so obviously it is meant to be taken and not be some grand plot hook to screw the players over.  It is one thing to tease players with a "priceless but unrecoverable" item in a dungeon but when you do that the value of it really doesn't count against what the PCs should earn.  There is no "greed" involved with taking something back that is obviously part of the loot that should be claimed.

Now I'd say an 800 pound statue making up  the bulk of an adventure's loot is actually a pretty good idea if you want to ensure the players "finish" things instead of just making a money grab.  If they are dealing with a bunch of low/no treasure encounters then having a difficult to take treasure means they are more likely to face those encounters instead of skipping over them once they grab the loot.  I can think of games where I've just sent my hero into someplace and managed to grab the highly valuable treasure while avoiding the guardians; now you may say I "defeated" the guardian by avoiding it but that isn't the "objective" of those little excursions.
Drag it.  Your party should be able to do this.  You'll need a block and tackle to lift it up any stairs.

Once you get it out in the open it's going to be easier.  Find some branches to make a crude sled, your contact with the ground is now better and it will be easier to move.
Also if you cant get any beasts of burden into the dungeon you could invest in a wand (or two depending on how far from the exit it is) of Grease and then hammer/screw a piton into the statue, cast grease on the statue and then pull it via a rope threaded through the piton to the entrance of the dungeon.
It's only 800 lbs, you have to be having a very strange occurrence to have that be a problem. Chain it to an oxen (primary plow beast of the middle ages) you hired for 1 gold piece. Hire 4 commoners to all help lift it (they will barely be able to stumble around with it but they'll get it off the ground) and set it in an oxcart. I can't think of any reason you should be spending more than 5 gold to get enough manpower to solve the problem.
I love these sort of things that greed overrides common sense.
 



Yea and I hate when part of hero's loot wealth is tied up in furniature so that it feels like your the repoman come to clear out the place. Especially when you have DM who frowns on those kind of looting tactics.

But it was a premade adventure our DM used and some of those are made by people who thinks it's clever to do things like that. It's clearly suppose to be part of the loot since it's mentioned. Plus an adventure that's suppose to take four level 2 chars to level 3 the total loot of 8K is about right, but when 4K of it is tied up in some giant statue the part is going to be seriously undergeared. That's basically 4 +1 items.
A easy option is to leave the statue at a safe location and then hire labourers to go back with you to retrieve it. Check the boocks, labourers and servants are rather cheap and considering the statue is 4,000 gp, it is more then worth it. A Wagon and some mules or oxen are also fairly affordable.


Spells like Grease should make it easier to pull, cast on the bottom of the statue, or make a sled and cast to on the sled's bottom. It should pull rather easy then.

Feb 13, 2013 -- 11:44AM, willardthor wrote:

If your campaign has psionics, and it seems that doing the dragging and/or carry-by-wagon is too much of a hassle, then Skate is an option. Of course, this involves a third party which might steal the statue. Also, the duration of Skate is short.



Skate is worse for this purpose than Tenser's because the power has the same weight limit and they're not high level enough to do it themselves.


Ah, I missed that detail. How about Shrink Item then? Gold is heavy, so the statue cannot be very big. Are there Fireball-slinging Wizards at every corner? One of them must have this spell in his/her book.

But yeah; the hiring of an oxen, cart and commoners approach seems to be the simplest one. Maybe covering the statue before the commoners see it is best; I think some commoners might raise their pitchforks against adventurers at a chance out of poverty.
There is no "greed" involved with taking something back that is obviously part of the loot that should be claimed.



Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far BEYOND the dictates of basic survival and comfort.

These are level 1's that became level 2's and has amassed 4000gp including any magic items found.
That is plenty to come back to town with to brag.
They are set for life if they retire at level 2.

Needing to have that one last treasure no matter what it takes (goes the extra mile with a wagon, hirelings, sundering the statue and so on) seems more like greed in my opinion.

A robber steals all of the jewels in the glass cases, he is rich for life if he fences it.
He can leave rich and be done with it.
Or he can decide to go the 'extra mile' and head to the secured vault for that legendary diamond.
Is this not greed to go for that extra mile when he can be happy and rich for life with what he already has?
The diamond is not needed to be claimed unless he needs to add one more stone to his already-rich loot.

Likewise with treasure, you can carry no more because of encumberance.
The wealth you have will keep you happy and rich for life.
Do you need to have that statue no matter what?


Who ever said this statue was gold?  I read it was "worth 4,000 gp" which is a far cry from saying it is actually 4,000 gp worth of gold and/or other materials.

I thought I've read somewhere that coins weigh one pound per 50.  That would mean that 800 pound of gold should mke 40,000 gold pieces.  Do I need to point out that value is ten times what the stated value of this statue is.  Based on that is should be obvious that this statue is certainly NOT solid gold or even mostly gold.  There may not even be ANY precious metal involved in its construction or even valuable gemstones that could be picked out and sold for anything close that that 4k gp valuation.
 
Now if the actual item is small enough to fit within Shrink Item's target area (2 cu. ft./level; a 2'x2'x5' object requires CL10) that would certainly make the statue more portable.  I really question the statue being small enough to qualify. 
There is no "greed" involved with taking something back that is obviously part of the loot that should be claimed.


Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far BEYOND the dictates of basic survival and comfort.
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These are level 1's that became level 2's and has amassed 4000gp including any magic items found.
That is plenty to come back to town with to brag.
They are set for life if they retire at level 2.

Needing to have that one last treasure no matter what it takes (goes the extra mile with a wagon, hirelings, sundering the statue and so on) seems more like greed in my opinion.

A robber steals all of the jewels in the glass cases, he is rich for life if he fences it.
He can leave rich and be done with it.
Or he can decide to go the 'extra mile' and head to the secured vault for that legendary diamond.
Is this not greed to go for that extra mile when he can be happy and rich for life with what he already has?
The diamond is not needed to be claimed unless he needs to add one more stone to his already-rich loot.

Likewise with treasure, you can carry no more because of encumberance.

The wealth you have will keep you happy and rich for life.
Do you need to have that statue no matter what?


Oh, I see, we're using the actual definition of greed instead of what could be considered a game definition of greed.  I'll point out that adventurers are almost all by definition greedy.  Ok, maybe I can let 1st-level characters slide by but adventures quickly amass enough wealth that they could easily retire and lead a good life long before they reach the levels we often see people posting about here.

Now to answer your last question it seems clear to me that the PCs do need that statue so they can have the things they are assumed to have to continue to adventure.  DnD assumes that the characters have a certain amount of wealth at a given point and if there wealth varies they will either have an easier or potentially a MUCH harder time dealing with the types of challenges the game sets up for them.  Sure a DM can weaken everything for a low treasure campaign but there are some things that aren't as defined by treasure/equipment and these become exponentially more powerful as a game progresses.

DnD isn't StarWars.  In the StarWars PRGs I have no problem assuming that high level "adventurers" are potentially using the same gear they've had since 3rd-level but with DnD it is assumed that a high level adventurer will have a LOT more wealth then they did back when they were 3rd-level.
 
Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far BEYOND the dictates of basic survival and comfort.




By definition possession of material goods equals success, protection and the ability to provide for oneself and others both now and in the indeterminable future. Because the future is indeterminate, gathering beyond one's needs (such as gathering supplies before winter) is simply foresight. Wealth, in excess, gives one power, and power is what enables one to make a change in the world around them. Be it funding community programs, such as schools, hospitals, research, roads, clean water or the arts, or in investments into agriculture and industry that provides benifits to mankind as a whole.

Even simply being rich and living a life of ease  provides benifits to others. Hire workers to build a new home? employ full time servants? Buy expensive, lucury items? So just being rich is employing construction workers, merchants and servants.

No, Greed is the desire for possession to the detriment of oneself and others, such as hording food while others are starving.

In this case, the statue is forfeit, it is the rightful and legal property of the PCs, and their wanting it is not to the detriment of a contending party (at least not a lawfully contending party since it was liberated from evildoers) making their rightful claim to it is not greedy. In fact they have a moral obligation to ensure that the statue doesn't fall back into the hands of wrongdoers, so leaving it there would be irresponsible and it would be wasteful, (even greedy) to not take it with them if they are able, rather then senselessly destroying a work of art.


     

I re-read the OP and it does not say that the statue is needed to continue the adventure.
However if the retrieval of the statue is part of the mission, then the statue is utmost important to retrieve. 

The statue worth 4000gp in gold value (based on a PC's appraise skill roll) weighing 800 pounds may not be sold for 4000gp.
Depending on the buyer, haggling, the appraise roll of guessing the value, and mishandling of the statue to get it to town, it could amount to less than 4000gp in the end. 

It would be good to see how much they succeed with this statue and see what is it worth after all of the effort and trouble.

 
I re-read the OP and it does not say that the statue is needed to continue the adventure.
However if the retrieval of the statue is part of the mission, then the statue is utmost important to retrieve. 

The statue worth 4000gp in gold value (based on a PC's appraise skill roll) weighing 800 pounds may not be sold for 4000gp.
Depending on the buyer, haggling, the appraise roll of guessing the value, and mishandling of the statue to get it to town, it could amount to less than 4000gp in the end. 

It would be good to see how much they succeed with this statue and see what is it worth after all of the effort and trouble.

 

What are you?  That group's DM who wants to screw them out of treasure they earned?  Every thing you've posted in this thread is how to screw over the PCs and to keep them from collecting what the game rules say they should be getting.

You know, there are very few times I've EVER seen an adventure that "requires" some treasure to continue the adventure.  "That +4 Holy Evil-Outsider Bane Greatsword, oh you can just leave that there because it isn't required for you to continue to adventure."  You seem to be missing the point that DnD assumes the players get a certain amount of treasure as they level up to keep the system 'honest' and they should still be able to collect it even if it isn't pocketable from the start.

If you want to know why treasure in important to the way things are balanced just look at profesional sports.  In a league where teams are relatively even in terms of payroll (the NFL) the entire league is relatively competitive but in leagues where there are no controls on "wealth" (MLB) some teams continually dominate year after year.  Sure the personnel invovled can influence things but by and large when there is a disparity it "party wealth" the wealthier party is superior to the poor party.
 
You write that greed is to hoard and not share with others as in food for example.
If a person was to make more than he normally needs to survive, then what he takes and keeps above that is excessive.

Why not donate it to a church?
Why not all adventurers take only what they need to re-supply and give the rest of it to a charity?

Adventurers need all of it to re-supply?
Last time I checked there are slums, poor people and villagers, beggars, how many actually give most of their found wealth?






















 
I have to second recommendations of a wagon/cart and an ox or two. If you have some rope and someone in the party capable of casting Grease, you should be able to get the statue out of the dungeon. After that, any strong melee-types in the party or some hirelings can get it into the cart (if you don't want to set up a block and tackle), and all that remains to be done is getting it to town.
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne! Resident Invisible Man Lurker in the House of Trolls A Testament to My Glory
what options do we have for retrieving the statue and bringing it back to town?

- Scroll of Shrink Item (375 gp) (fwiw: a human sized statue should be about 3 cubic feet)
- 8th level scroll of Floating Disk
- Hire a mage to cast either of the above
- Rent a typeIII bag of holding
- Hire a wagon and a couple hirelings
You go to a store to sell some jewelry, you previously bought it for 1000 dollars.
The store keeper says 500 dollars due to the quality.
You haggle him to 800 dollars.

As far as I know, there are used store owners like that in the United States and maybe elsewhere. It can happen in D&D too.

StevenO,  I am not flaming you here.
Just saying points here using real life events.
Never said you were wrong or incorrect.
You are taking this personal.

All GMs do the rules differently.
Rules say this, but GMs can do it the way they want to do it.
Not everyone agrees with the next person.

Peace brother

 


 
You go to a store to sell some jewelry, you previously bought it for 1000 dollars.
The store keeper says 500 dollars due to the quality.
You haggle him to 800 dollars.

As far as I know, there are used store owners like that in the United States and maybe elsewhere. It can happen in D&D too.

StevenO,  I am not flaming you here.
Just saying points here using real life events.
Never said you were wrong or incorrect.
You are taking this personal.

All GMs do the rules differently.
Rules say this, but GMs can do it the way they want to do it.
Not everyone agrees with the next person.

Peace brother



I think the major problem he's having is that the OP asked for ways to get a certain load amount out of a particular environment and all you've really posted is that he's greedy for doing it, and haven't added anything constructive to the inquiry. Greedy or not, it's the party's prerogative to acquire the statue, other than that it's final sale value and what the pc's do with the resulting wealth is between them, so several posts on what can happen are kind of moot when the point was clearly delivered in one.
...
StevenO,  I am not flaming you here.
Just saying points here using real life events.
Never said you were wrong or incorrect.
You are taking this personal.
... 


As Lashius has pointed out this thread's OP is asking how to transport a weighty object.  Now the "need" to transport that object is really irrelavent although based on treasure figures it seems like it is essentially something the PCs are supposed to take and sell or otherwise get some use from it.  Your posts have could mostly be summed up by saying you're trying to make it impossible or at least unnecessarily difficult for them do do that task.

When we're told the statue is worth 4000 gp that could easily be the figure the DM told them based on what it should sell for.  Now sure there may be should be some kind of appraisal roll made (although you should remember that even when they are wrong they are usually close) but some DMs don't require that level of detail.  Just like coins and gems are assumed to earn full value for them when sold the same should be true for an art object. 

- Scroll of Shrink Item (375 gp) (fwiw: a human sized statue should be about 3 cubic feet)

I think 3 cubit feet is a little tight for a human sized statue.  Remember you're saying 3 cubic feet which is just a one foot square that is three feet high.
 
Well, the size really depends on the material.  I don't recall the OP ever stating outright that the statue is made of gold (as opposed to being worth 4,000 gold), but it obviously can't be made entirely of the stuff; at most it could have 80 pounds of gold, with the other 9/10ths of the statue's weight being some comparatively worthless material.

But depending on what material is used (say, a gold-plated lead statue), that could easily be a surprisingly small statue.  Someone can tell me if my rough mathematics are off (I'm pretty haphazard at metric/imperial conversion), but looking at the Wikipedia numbers for lead density, it could be in the region of a single cubic foot of material, maybe a foot and a half.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I'll agree it could be a small, but very heavy, statue.  A google search turns up lead at 708 lb/ft^3 while gold is over 1200# but iron is just 491#.

Perhaps the only reason physical dimensions may matter is if Shrink Object is used and there we may need to ask what the size limit there means.  I know that when I think about it I'm thinking the size limit would be related to "how big does the box need to be to hold the item" as opposed to "how much water would the item displace if submerged" when determining what the volume means.  I guess I think Shrink Object could fail on a sphere of gold that is .01 in. think but with a 5' radius but may work on a solid sphere that has the same weight.
 
I like some of the suggestions thus far. Though it does seem some people are getting side tracked.

First off why doesn't it matter what the statue is made of? If you must know I think the DM said Bronze, though I'd have to double check.

Second our character motivations are not relavent. We could be a band of greedy theives bent on amassing as much money as possible. This is D&D after all and campaigns can have whatever characters they want.

But if you must know, yes we do NEED the money to survive. Our adventure from level 1 - 2 resulted in a near party wipe with the boss basically ransoming the group back to the town and leaving the party pennyless. The party was then recruited by local authorities and given only basic equip to deal with a band of raiders. The party manage to survive and one person nearly died being permenantly crippled and decideding to reroll.

The party was originally 5 from level 1-2 and got a 6th at level 2. Thus an adventure that got the party most of the way to level 3 (just a few hundred XP short) only netted a party of SIX players 4-5K in treasure. If you include the statue it will nearly double the party's wealth.

I'd have to double check but I think 2.7K is expected wealth at level 3. So at a point when a party of 6 should have a net worth of maybe 2.3k * 6 = 13.8K in wealth it only has maybe 6K then yes the party is seriously unequiped. Now factor in we are using out of the box modules which are designed around characters have a set amount of gear.

Yes some of this knowledge is OOC but even then the campaign as presented is that a mysterious evil is on the rise, so yea our characters should be motivated to gather funds to stop the rise of this evil in whatever form it might take.



Though back more on the topic. I did look at shrink and I think it would require a higher level caster then telser's disk. Though we do have an arcane caster in the party and I was thinking we could buy a scroll crafted at CL8 with Telser's disk and it would be a lot cheaper (200 gp) then hiring out the mage to come with us.

As for getting hirelings I think the rest of the party might be reluctent on that as the temple is well hidden and some of the party want to claim it as our own base so they want to keep the location secret. Though it is only a 6 hour walk from town so it's not unreasonable far to grab the statue.

I'd say the reason we want to know what the statue is made from is to get an idea of big it is and if it would qualify as a target for Shrink Item.  Reading Floating Disk it would take CL 8 to make it work but if you're just taking it into town it would easily work although just getting a horse and card would also do the trick for a lot less.  I'm not sure what power Shrink Item would need to be but it would have the benefit of a much longer duration (days instead of hours) which could give you more options on what to do with that statue.

I'd need to go look but it may take a city to sell a 4000 gp statue (figure this out from pg 137 of the DMG) in and get that price.  Even if "town" is only a 6 hour walk some where that you could unload that statue may be a bit further away.
 
The material also affects certain processing possibilities.  For example, you might melt down a gold or silver statue for easier transport since much of its worth is in the material, but you couldn't do the same with one made of ivory, marble, or precious wood inlaid with gems (while picking out gems might recover most of the value), and you probably wouldn't bother melting down one made of bronze (since much more of its worth is going to be in the craftsmanship).

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Do you happen to have accesses to a third level cleric? if so you could chop the bronze up into manageable sized peaces, transport it, an then have the cleric cast make whole on it. Due to the stipulations of the spell you'd have to make sure you didn't warp (in in this case "bend") any of the peaces, so I'd suggest if anyone has accesses to an adamantine weapon or tools to do the work, and preferably someone with  craft metal working, to to the dicing if that's what needs to be done.
Why does everyone keep making this sound so hard to do without resorting to some extreme measures?

While they'd probably want the dungeon "cleaned out" first this is something that the typical 2nd-level party should be able to get out without needed to find additional resources and certainly without "expensive" resources.
 
Why does everyone keep making this sound so hard to do without resorting to some extreme measures?

While they'd probably want the dungeon "cleaned out" first this is something that the typical 2nd-level party should be able to get out without needed to find additional resources and certainly without "expensive" resources.
 



Well, make whole is a second level cleric spell so I wouldn't exactly call that an expensive (or extreme) resource StevenO, or the price of hiring a mettle worker to carefully dismantle the thing. Maybe the adamantine tools would be expensive (I recall an addy hack saw was around 200 GP in dungeon scape, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering the price right), but probably not even necessary if they can get someone skilled enough to not warp the mettle well segmenting it.

Between the fact that the group doesn't seem to want to bring people to this lair for security reasons and it also seems to be a difficult place to get to (which may mean no pack animals can get in to help) their options seem a little thin save for spending time and effort into various (almost totally self reliant) methods. Though I'm not sure we got a solid answer to something. Is the party capable of moving this thing under their own power? Even if they couldn't get a cart into the lair, they shouldn't have trouble getting the materials to make one in, or maybe even a simple dolly. If you can get wheels under something the general rule is that it cuts the weight load into a quarter of what it was if I remember (though I may just be confusing that with the rules for moving siege engines, and it may be only half). So in order to clarify what ideas might work, how about we get some answers first instead of working in the dark.

1) What are the smallest dimensions that you need to pass through is this lair? Knowing this will let us know what you can get in to help you move it, from pack animals to miniature wheel rigging's and such, the over all room to work in will narrow what may be best to use.

2) What are your personal capabilities (I.E: strength scores, magical capacities, applicable skills such as craft, knowledge, and profession). If there's a mettle worker in your party, someone with knowledge architecture and engineering, or profession surveyor/mathematician you have personal in game mechanics that can aid your endeavor with checks to figure out what is best to do. Also if you have anyone who is particularly strong, a combined effort might be made to simply "man it out" and carry the thing into town, and magical access can make a lot of things easier.

3) What resources does the nearby settlement (the "town" you refer to) have to offer? Are there beasts of burden available to pull heavy things (assuming they're an option), are there any architects that you could consult on the matter of easily transporting heavy objects with minimal effort, are there porters in town who would be willing to be blind folded for a bit of extra cash well transported to the lair to bring out the statue/ Maybe even perhaps a group of people who are willing to swear themselves to secrecy in regards to the lairs location as a term of taking the job?

That's all I can think of that might clear the air as to what can and cant be done definitively, anyone else have a question that might sort things out?
Assuming it fits through spaces just about any party should be able to drag it out.  As I mentioned way back in my first post (#3) a STR 14 character could drag it all by him or her self.  Assuming the group has some rope (which I hope is a safe assumption) then multiple people should be able to drag it splitting the net load between them.

I just did a little figuring using Bronze and an 800 lb. bronze statue would turn out to be about human size so unless the group has to squeeze somewhere they should be able to get the thing out. 
You write that greed is to hoard and not share with others as in food for example.
If a person was to make more than he normally needs to survive, then what he takes and keeps above that is excessive.

Why not donate it to a church?
Why not all adventurers take only what they need to re-supply and give the rest of it to a charity?

Adventurers need all of it to re-supply?
Last time I checked there are slums, poor people and villagers, beggars, how many actually give most of their found wealth?



Because of how D&D works. Today they might fight Goblins, and a Master Worked sword and a wooden shield might be fine for that, tommorrow they will be level 20 and, wow do they ever need to have equiped themelves with better gear between level 1 and 20, because a masterworked sword and wooden shield won't cut it.

What they need to re-supply and cover their needs in your context persumes that they have linear needs, however as they advance in level and face greater chalenges their material needs will require that wealth. This is an issue I think for any level based system (as opposed to skill based)
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