Sly Flourish and knife

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Hello guys, 

Some questions i've been havin.

1 - Can a  rogue use this power with a knife?

2 - if so , can he use sneak attack?

 thanks,
If the knife counts as a light blade (it should), then you are good to go.  That is unless it is a Drow Long Knife, in which case you have to take a feat to make this work.

I feel like this might be a case where you need to restate the question with more info. 
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assuming your knife is in the light blade weapon group, yes to both

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Thats exacly my question.

U see, in spite of the knive be light blade, its also light thrown.

So, there are powers like sly flourish, thats states light blade, BUT powers like "blindin barraga"and  "cloud of steel" states specifically light thrown.

So, one could say knives could only be used in powers that have light thrown.

Maybe that helps with my question
 
What 'knife' are you using?  There is no item in D&D simply called a 'knife'.

There's a Widow's Knife, and a Drow Long Knife, and a few magic items with 'knife' in the title.

Assuming mean 'dagger', it is a light blade, and it is also a light thrown weapon, and as such is valid to use with any power that specifies that it requires either a light blade, or a light thrown weapon, because it is both.

If your DM has houseruled a weapon called 'knife' in his game, you'll have to ask him how it works, because he made it up.
Ok my bad.

When i say knife, i mean "dagger'.

sorry again 
Thats exacly my question.

U see, in spite of the knive be light blade, its also light thrown.

So, there are powers like sly flourish, thats states light blade, BUT powers like "blindin barraga"and  "cloud of steel" states specifically light thrown.

So, one could say knives could only be used in powers that have light thrown.

Maybe that helps with my question
 


What is the exact item?

If you are referring to a Drow Long Knife and that is a Heavy Blade/Heavy thrown/Off-hand weapon so not useable in any of those instances unless via a feat.
If you are referring to a Dagger than that is a Light blade/Light Thrown/Off-hand weapon and is useable as both a ranged and melle weapon.
Edit- :ninjaed: 
Yes the Dagger.


But, why dont use then "light blade" instead of "light thrown"?

Why separate the 2?

My question is using the dagger as a ranged weapon, for "sly flourish". not arguing about using it as melle.

So, when using the dagger as ranged, its type is light thrown, not light blade. The power doesnt say light thrown lige other that i mentioned.

Otherwise, no use to using the "light thrown type". 

 
Light blade is a catagory of weapon just like heavy blade, axe, mace, and flail

Light throw is a trait that a melee weapon might have that indicates it can be used as a ranged weapon based on dex 
Heavy throw is a trait that a melee weapon might have that indicates it can be used as a ranged weapon based on str ( like the hand axe or spear ) 
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Yes the Dagger.


But, why dont use then "light blade" instead of "light thrown"?

Why separate the 2?

My question is using the dagger as a ranged weapon, for "sly flourish". not arguing about using it as melle.

So, when using the dagger as ranged, its type is light thrown, not light blade. The power doesnt say light thrown lige other that i mentioned.

Otherwise, no use to using the "light thrown type". 

 


1. Don't really understand this. Are you reffering to a power? If you are then light thrown is the type of weapon you can use like a Dagger or Shuriken, for example, in the case of the Rogue.
2. They seperate the two for powers not for weapons.
3.  
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Sly Flourish

You use a distracting flourish with your off hand to land a solid blow.


At-Will        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee or Ranged weapon


Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling.


Target: One creature


Attack: Dexterity vs. AC


Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier + Charisma modifier damage.
    Level 21: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier + Charisma modifier damage.

 
The power specifies it can be used Melee or Ranged with a light blade
4. No it's type is always Light Blade/Light Thrown(which also has to do with using DEX for your RBA)/Off-Hand.
5. You use the "light thrown" type when a power calls for you to use it. If you do a compendium search you will see other "light thrown" weapons that count as another weapon type.

Sorry to make this confusing.  
Light blade is a catagory of weapon just like heavy blade, axe, mace, and flail

Light throw is a trait that a melee weapon might have that indicates it can be used as a ranged weapon based on dex 
Heavy throw is a trait that a melee weapon might have that indicates it can be used as a ranged weapon based on str ( like the hand axe or spear ) 


A better and more concise explination.
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The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
its type is light thrown, not light blade


It is both.  There are some light blades that are light thrown, there are some light blades that are not light thrown, there are some light thrown that are not light blades.
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When figuring out stuff like this, worry about what the weapon is, not what it also is.

The dagger IS a light blade; the dagger IS a light thrown weapon.

If a power requires a light blade, ask yourself, "Is the dagger a light blade?"  The answer is yes.
If a power requires a light thrown weapon, ask yourself, "Is the dagger a light thrown weapon?"  The answer is yes.

If there were a weapon that was both a light blade and an axe, you could use it with any power that requires a light blade, because it IS a light blade; the fact that it is also an axe is irrelevant.
Light throw is a trait that a melee weapon might have that indicates it can be used as a ranged weapon based on dex  
Heavy throw is a trait that a melee weapon might have that indicates it can be used as a ranged weapon based on str

Only with ranged and melee basic attacks respectively, just saying

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

What do you mean by melee basic?  Thrown, either variety, says nothing about melee basic.  Those two sentences you quoted apply to ranged basic, both.
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Mean nothing, scratch that, just ranged basic.  Wink

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

@LoaBonne I was trying to immagine what a light blade + axe would look like at work today.

@Plaguescarred  I was going to add the basic only thing as soon as I got online today
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
You think that's hard, try imagining a two-handed axe + spear that doesn't have Reach.
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You think that's hard, try imagining a two-handed axe + spear that doesn't have Reach.



I kinda always pictured a greataxe with a spike on the bottom of the shaft. You'd usually chop with it but there was the option of stabbing with the butt-spike. So an Urgrosh really...
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I picture a sort of short halberd or lochaber axe type thing.
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@LoaBonne I was trying to immagine what a light blade + axe would look like at work today.


 Ever seen The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro? A light blade + axe looks like this.  It's basically a 6-inch khopesh.

The 2-handed axe+spear I always pictured as one of those Conan-type double-bladed battleaxes with the big ol' overlong spike on the top.

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There are reasons they call me Mad...

@LoaBonne I was trying to immagine what a light blade + axe would look like at work today.


 Ever seen The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro? A light blade + axe looks like this.  It's basically a 6-inch khopesh.



You could also use a cleaver.

Both of those are likely to just be "light blade", but hey, you pays your Superior Weapon Proficiency feat and you gets your weapon.
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You think that's hard, try imagining a two-handed axe + spear that doesn't have Reach.

As in - the gouge?

Which is for all intents and purposes, a shovel, with both the leading edge and the sides of the spade sharpened, so you can thrust with it ala spear, or hack with it ala axe.

It is a foolish weapon, especially for it to have such awesome ingame stats.  Ever wondered why the weaponised shovel was so popular as a weapon in real history?  Oh - thats right, it wasnt, because it wasnt really that good if you had access to anything else - like a knife attached to a long handle or heaven forbid an actual axe or spear.

But in 4th ed, the shovel is the ultimate weapon.  Yay for the Shoveler!
You think that's hard, try imagining a two-handed axe + spear that doesn't have Reach.

As in - the gouge?

It is a foolish weapon, especially for it to have such awesome ingame stats.


Hence my ever-so-subtle mocking.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Ever wondered why the weaponised shovel was so popular as a weapon in real history?  Oh - thats right, it wasnt, !



Ever wondered why this is relevant?  Oh - that's right, it isn't, because D&D worlds are completely unconnected to real world history.
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Both of those are likely to just be "light blade", but hey, you pays your Superior Weapon Proficiency feat and you gets your weapon.


 Eh. In the movie, there's actually a line of dialogue from a sherriff's deputy to the effect that the wounds inflicted by the knife look like they were made with a hatchet, and the fighting style taught by Mr. Jones' character makes use of one or two tomahawk-like strikes, so if we're assigning mechanics to the narrative image axe + light blade isn't too farfetched...


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I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

I still think Kukhri ought to be axe/light blade.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
And this is a ancient Chinese dagger-axe. Everyone knows that daggermasters need a rending weapon right?
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And this is a ancient Chinese dagger-axe. Everyone knows that daggermasters need a rending weapon right?


I actully made that mistake last week when doing a translation project.

A dagger axe is not a light weapon.  What you see is the head for a shaft of wood.  It's a polearm.  I can't remember when I read that it goes on the shaft, but I did.  Broke my heart.