Why I Think D&DN Will Do Well.

 This forum is not the only forum I post on and I do lurk and post on other forums. Suffice to say that not everything is well in Paizo land and on the pre 3rd ed forums they tend to be big on the play how you want thing as 2nd ed for example was full of various options.

 There is also a growing sense of 3.5 fatigue I suppose on the Paizo boards. A lot of the arguements people are advocating for are using pre 3rd ed rather than 4th . I like 3rd ed but it has been over 12 years now and I am very sick of things like power attack and the same spells being used to do the smae things for that amount of time. Pre 3rd ed may have had this problem as well but it has other advantages such as being easy to design for. Overall I think all DDN has to do is be the following and people will look at it.

1. Not be as broken and as complex as 3.5.
2. Not be 4th ed.

 Basically do not be a clone of 3rd or 4th ed and it is good to go. It also probably has to have some elements of d20 in it like 3rd and 4th ed though and it has that already. Arguements over classes being boring and mechanics I think are going to be slightly pointless. D&D has never really had briliant mechanics- 4th only looked good by comparison to 3.5 IMHO not other RPGs. If they goof up a class or 3 and make them over/underpowered or boring that will not kill the game either IMHO. 

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Why I'm not optimistic on D&DNext's success:

1.Too many people have contradictory ideas on what constitutes as "true D&D", and D&DNext couldn't possibly cater to all of them.
Why I'm not optimistic on D&DNext's success:

1.Too many people have contradictory ideas on what constitutes as "true D&D", and D&DNext couldn't possibly cater to all of them.

This.  As an example, I want a D&D even more complex (although less broken) than 3.5.
Fingers are crossed and the d20 is rolling...
Why I'm not optimistic on D&DNext's success:

1.Too many people have contradictory ideas on what constitutes as "true D&D", and D&DNext couldn't possibly cater to all of them.

This.  As an example, I want a D&D even more complex (although less broken) than 3.5.

Pretty sure that's what the advanced rules will be for.  I gather that it will be possible to make D&DN as complex as you want.

"I want 'punch magic in the face' to be a maneuver." -- wrecan

Why I'm not optimistic on D&DNext's success:

1.Too many people have contradictory ideas on what constitutes as "true D&D", and D&DNext couldn't possibly cater to all of them.

This.  As an example, I want a D&D even more complex (although less broken) than 3.5.

Pretty sure that's what the advanced rules will be for.  I gather that it will be possible to make D&DN as complex as you want.

I'm a little skeptical of that.  There's been little indication of Skills & Powers style point buy options becoming a module in DDN as an example.
There's been little indication of Skills & Powers style point buy options becoming a module in DDN as an example.

There was little indication that such would be available when 2nd Ed was first published, either. I wouldn't rule them out.

In memory of wrecan and his Unearthed Wrecana.

Not to be unneccassarily reductionist, but it seems like your argument is basically that people will buy D&D Next because people will buy D&D.

I think EnglishLanguage has the right of it: there are so many conflicting desires that no game could satisfy them all.

The promise of "modules to sort it out" for everything is simply silly. For example, why would anyone that wants a 4e gaming experience be satisfied by 4e-like modules? So they should buy a new edition, and then buy more modules in order to make it play like the thing they bought years ago? Pff.
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  



This. Everyone I've heard talk about it, it comes off more as a joke than a play able game. Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  



This. Everyone I've heard talk about it, it comes off more as a joke than a play able game. Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...




Really because everyone I know in real life, that is willing to try new editions*, thinks it is coming along swimmingly.  They all noted damage was out of control for everyone in this last packet but that is a known issue.  Other than that everyone I know is diggin on 5e from what they have seen of it.  They like the direction everything is headed in if only a few tweaks need to made in a few places.

In fact one of my players is now very interested in running his own one shot of 5e  after having done only one playtest session with me.  His participation in a session was contingent upon the barbarian being released.  He just had so much going on that they needed to put out that one piece for him to make time for the game.  He'd communicated the condition when play test packets were first being released.  Though he was being kept updated as the play test went on.  He is now solidly interested in 1 playing more often and 2 running his own game of it.  Though after todays L&L article we all want to wait for the next build since we know the current one is kind of useless as far as testing goes.

*I have at least one friend who self admittadely hates change.  He has no wish to give up his favored edition, but faults no one else for trying the new edition.  He even sees sense in most of the things I talk about from the next edition.  He just likes the edition he plays in and sees no reason to play a different game.  Why would he?  He likes what he has. 
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  



And funnily enough, I have yet to meet a single real life person who is so invested in a particular edition of D&D that they would would show hesitation in lieu of naturally gravitating toward the currently published version.  Wink
Just sayin' - one's immediate gaming social circle might not be the most accurate barometer for how well DDN will be received. My own group has been happily playing 5e since the first playtest. If they didn't like it, we'd be playing something else. The previous caveat still applies.

It will do well if enough people are inspired or impressed enough to pick it up and keep playing. For this, it doesn't have to be a "universally loved" version, but it should have sturdy and extensible rules with enough familiarity for existing/former players, and enough zing to catch new players' attention. The marketing campaign needs to get it in front of enough eyeballs. There should be a chance of turning a corner and running into a 5e product, rather than relying on new players to be introduced by others.
Now that I am retired, I plan on DMing 5E every freakin night.  I am going to introduce 1 new player per week.  We  will play the Basic game.  When they are ready to move to some more options I will "Boom!" Advanced Variant Dials and Modules until I see nose bleeds. 

They will lose all desire to sleep.  They will become 5ZombEEs.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  



This. Everyone I've heard talk about it, it comes off more as a joke than a play able game. Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...Smile



I don't know. About half of my current group likes it - we've been running the playtests as prologues and epilogues of our other current campaigns. The other half dont dislike it, they are just indifferent - but their opinion is changing as the playtest progresses.

As a DM, I certainly like it.     
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  

This is also my experience. Everyone around my home area knows who I am. They know I am playtesting Next and never ask me anything about it. I live in California and it's "Pathfinder all the way" out here in the College town I live near.
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  



This. Everyone I've heard talk about it, it comes off more as a joke than a play able game. Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...

Ya, If I mention 5th Edition It is a big joke. No street cred. out here at all. I might as well offer to host a game of Chutes and Ladders. And Mike Mearls ( who?) is known for his prior work which again is a negative due to the demographic.
So... amongst my own group, they were burnt out on 4e. I still love that system... I just want a little bit of something different (I should check out 13th Age, right?). For my group the dndn experience has been a fun process. It replaced our 4e games.
But I've talked to a few people from different local groups. They're not opposed to a new edition, but they don't have a strong interest in playing.
Another group I ran an early dndn playtest for weren't that interested in it. They just said "Hey, it's 3.x w/ at-will spells! Cool!"
I ran a playtest w/ a group who had mixed experiences w/ d&d (primarily 3.x). They liked the experience (dec packet), but I doubt any of them will pick it up on their own.
But... here's a question. Do people think the actual new edition will succeed? I think people aren't super into playing w/ incomplete rules or remaking their characters every few months. The disinterest in this process is understandable, especially if it seems like the game is going in a direction a person dislikes.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
  D&D has never really had briliant mechanics- 4th only looked good by comparison to 3.5 IMHO not other RPGs.

someday Id like to see a list of all these games that were better than AD&D
I'm running two separate D&D Next groups, and they're both interested in where D&D Next is going and enjoying the experience.

That doesn't mean dick, though. Even if every active forumgoer posted similar experiences one way or another, we represent a skewed sort. We're largely experienced players and DMs, and opinionated to boot. Most people aren't either of those things and are just happy to play the game. If D&D Next can make it easier to play, they won't care how the rules change to make that happen.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
  D&D has never really had briliant mechanics- 4th only looked good by comparison to 3.5 IMHO not other RPGs.

someday Id like to see a list of all these games that were better than AD&D



 D6 was contemporary with AD&D and had better mechanics IMHO. It was skill based though so YMMV.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  



This. Everyone I've heard talk about it, it comes off more as a joke than a play able game. Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...

Ya, If I mention 5th Edition It is a big joke. No street cred. out here at all. I might as well offer to host a game of Chutes and Ladders. And Mike Mearls ( who?) is known for his prior work which again is a negative due to the demographic.



I'm merely using the quote as an example and not specifically trying to call you out Brightmantle.

Reading stuff like this really bums me out. The sort of stuff where you're just snubbing your nose at it. 5e, or whatever you want to call it, is a new system, it's different and how good or bad is subjective.

The matter of fact here is you're here to help make it better by making suggestions to help it along. Sure not all your suggestions will make it into the build but hopefully by forming a consensus with your peers clearly broken things will get fixed and the end result is a proximally good game to fit your needs. I say proximally because of course no one system is a perfect fit for every player/dm.

It seems folks tend to forget that until recently, open beta testing and direct communication to developers didn't exist. We as a community largely had no input at all in to 2e and 3e.

that said, of course I'm hoping for an improvement, one should hope that they would improve upon a Beta design going into a finished design. Look at it not for what it fails at now, but what it has the potential to be later, and take the opporitunity you have now to play a part in that.
Now that I am retired, I plan on DMing 5E every freakin night.  I am going to introduce 1 new player per week.  We  will play the Basic game.  When they are ready to move to some more options I will "Boom!" Advanced Variant Dials and Modules until I see nose bleeds. 

They will lose all desire to sleep.  They will become 5ZombEEs.



I love this.  This is why it will succeed!  lol.

After DMing about 8-10 sessions, I'm definitely ready for another package.  I feel some of the strains on the system, but I do believe that at the core it will make DMing easier, and it will help the default campaign achieve a balance between the three pillars (combat, exploration and interaction).   I see flexibilty and modular design as a very positive aspect.   

It is still too early to say "yeah" or "nay".  

A Brave Knight of WTF - "Wielder of the Sword of Balance"

 

Rhenny's Blog:  http://community.wizards.com/user/1497701/blog

 

 

I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  



This. Everyone I've heard talk about it, it comes off more as a joke than a play able game. Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...

Ya, If I mention 5th Edition It is a big joke. No street cred. out here at all. I might as well offer to host a game of Chutes and Ladders. And Mike Mearls ( who?) is known for his prior work which again is a negative due to the demographic.



I'm merely using the quote as an example and not specifically trying to call you out Brightmantle.

Reading stuff like this really bums me out. The sort of stuff where you're just snubbing your nose at it. 5e, or whatever you want to call it, is a new system, it's different and how good or bad is subjective.

The matter of fact here is you're here to help make it better by making suggestions to help it along. Sure not all your suggestions will make it into the build but hopefully by forming a consensus with your peers clearly broken things will get fixed and the end result is a proximally good game to fit your needs. I say proximally because of course no one system is a perfect fit for every player/dm.

It seems folks tend to forget that until recently, open beta testing and direct communication to developers didn't exist. We as a community largely had no input at all in to 2e and 3e.

that said, of course I'm hoping for an improvement, one should hope that they would improve upon a Beta design going into a finished design. Look at it not for what it fails at now, but what it has the potential to be later, and take the opporitunity you have now to play a part in that.



This is the kind of post I'm talking about. We are relating facts here. The people that we talk to have no interest in 5E, that's a fact. We aren't putting down 5E or insulting it. We are telling it how it is. You know when people get asked about whether the glass is half full and half empty, about half of them say half full, and about half say half empty. A tiny group of people say the glass is at the mid point and then ask you waht this is about. We are in that group. Not everything said that was negative was bad, in fact if you say something negative you can impact the game positively. "I don't think wizards should have at-will save or dies with 5% chance to live" can have a huge positive impact on the game.

If you see something that is horrible, why lie about it? Its better to let people know that it is horrible so they can improve rather than assuming what they are doing is awesome when in fact its not...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  

This. Everyone I've heard talk about it, it comes off more as a joke than a play able game. Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...

Depending on your definition of "real life," I've seen plenty who have far more than an ounce of interest in 5e. Some are on this forum, and some come to my house weekly for D&D. We like how it is, and how it will be. There's no "overriding hope" -- we have confidence now in the design team that they will make a game we will like.

In memory of wrecan and his Unearthed Wrecana.

 THe D&DN playtest is bigger than the Pathfinder one. Once the book is on the shelf they will come.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

DDN5 will be a success because the people who are publishing this game continue to assure me that they are listening to me and to you on this forum and elsewhere.
DDN5 will be a success because the people who are publishing this game continue to assure me that they are listening to me and to you on this forum and elsewhere.



Yeah I've seen those comments too.

And they've continued to show me those comments are completely pointless
 
DDN5 will be a success because the people who are publishing this game continue to assure me that they are listening to me and to you on this forum and elsewhere.


And there's an un-ignorable amount of people who believe otherwise.
Of all my friends that play RPGs and have played D&D in one iteration or more, most every one of them either has no interest in DDN because they play other RPGs now or are content with past editions of D&D.  I am not saying that there are not people out there that will like DDN, but they might not be as numerous as WotC is hoping.
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
Here in NYC, I've seen such an overwhelming interest that one venue has no space on Wednesdays for Encounters (using DDN conversion), and another just wrapped the launch of the new TSR reincarnated Gygax magazine (which was inundated with DDN inquiries during the unveiling).

I never hear anything negative about DDN short of "they need to add xyz class" until I peek in on these boards.

Danny

Well, at week zero at DDN, we seem to have 2 tables for 5e and one for 4e.  Albeit, one of the 5e tables is anti-4e types...  Here's to hoping more hell doesn't break loose on wednesday   Anyway, the other table are people like me.  They've enjoyed 4e, but they don't mind trying something new and 5e is something new.  I'm excited to see where it continues.  But yes, acknowledging more of 4th's best accomplishments (which is subjective) in terms of the game evolving would be nice too.

Anyway, I haven't been posting around these parts as much.  Life's become chaotic and attempting to keep the peace seems to work as well as Andrew Ryan in the City of Rapture (There's a nod towards one of my favorites, right there).  Plus, it seems one popular approach in these lands is "A man builds.  A parasite asks, 'Where is my share?'"  Heh...

Anyway, being a cynical punk aside...  So far, it's doing a pretty good job of attracting folks who've vanished from D&D for a while, plus kids of older games seem to like it.  Plus, folks who've never played D&D never before that introduced to the playtest seemed to like it, with a couple criticisms here and there (mostly directed at general D&D stuff, lol)

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
Well, at week zero at DDN, we seem to have 2 tables for 5e and one for 4e.  Albeit, one of the 5e tables is anti-4e types...  Here's to hoping more hell doesn't break loose on wednesday   Anyway, the other table are people like me.  They've enjoyed 4e, but they don't mind trying something new and 5e is something new.  I'm excited to see where it continues.  But yes, acknowledging more of 4th's best accomplishments (which is subjective) in terms of the game evolving would be nice too.

Anyway, I haven't been posting around these parts as much.  Life's become chaotic and attempting to keep the peace seems to work as well as Andrew Ryan in the City of Rapture (There's a nod towards one of my favorites, right there).  Plus, it seems one popular approach in these lands is "A man builds.  A parasite asks, 'Where is my share?'"  Heh...

The Twenty Sided Store in Brooklyn seats 7 tables of six, and has done so consistently for the 6 seasons I've been involved with their games.

They are 100% DDN, and even hosted a custom season during the last 5 weeks where WotC didn't offer a module (to meet demand).

Danny

Well, at week zero at DDN, we seem to have 2 tables for 5e and one for 4e.  Albeit, one of the 5e tables is anti-4e types...  Here's to hoping more hell doesn't break loose on wednesday   Anyway, the other table are people like me.  They've enjoyed 4e, but they don't mind trying something new and 5e is something new.  I'm excited to see where it continues.  But yes, acknowledging more of 4th's best accomplishments (which is subjective) in terms of the game evolving would be nice too.

Anyway, I haven't been posting around these parts as much.  Life's become chaotic and attempting to keep the peace seems to work as well as Andrew Ryan in the City of Rapture (There's a nod towards one of my favorites, right there).  Plus, it seems one popular approach in these lands is "A man builds.  A parasite asks, 'Where is my share?'"  Heh...

The Twenty Sided Store in Brooklyn seats 7 tables of six, and has done so consistently for the 6 seasons I've been involved with their games.

They are 100% DDN, and even hosted a custom season during the last 5 weeks where WotC didn't offer a module (to meet demand).




Sweet baby tarresques, man!  But then again, I run at a small-ish store in central New Jersey.  We can't accomodate for more than 4 tables.  Now, some places like Maplewood Hobbie or Time Warp comics and games?  They can probably cover what your place can.  From what I've heard, they're pretty evenly split as well.

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
Sweet baby tarresques, man!  But then again, I run at a small-ish store in central New Jersey.  We can't accomodate for more than 4 tables.  Now, some places like Maplewood Hobbie or Time Warp comics and games?  They can probably cover what your place can.  From what I've heard, they're pretty evenly split as well.

Ah, we live close enough to each other that this may call for a team up.

You going to PAX? There's a bus load of Twenty Siders heading out for the experience.

Danny

Sweet baby tarresques, man!  But then again, I run at a small-ish store in central New Jersey.  We can't accomodate for more than 4 tables.  Now, some places like Maplewood Hobbie or Time Warp comics and games?  They can probably cover what your place can.  From what I've heard, they're pretty evenly split as well.

Ah, we live close enough to each other that this may call for a team up.

You going to PAX? There's a bus load of Twenty Siders heading out for the experience.




If I had time, that would be awesome.  I'm already trying to get over to a LGS in Staten Island (some of my buddies from college live there), but I'll see what I have time, money, and energy for.  Also, I can't do PAX for a while, not even PAX East.  I'm too busy finding a job and paying off debt, lol.  So yeah, in the meantime, I'm going to have to rely on my local friends and fellow gamers in the Essex county area for DDN playtesting.

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
Twenty Sides a big game store?

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Sweet baby tarresques, man!  But then again, I run at a small-ish store in central New Jersey.  We can't accomodate for more than 4 tables.  Now, some places like Maplewood Hobbie or Time Warp comics and games?  They can probably cover what your place can.  From what I've heard, they're pretty evenly split as well.

Ah, we live close enough to each other that this may call for a team up.

You going to PAX? There's a bus load of Twenty Siders heading out for the experience.

If I had time, that would be awesome.  I'm already trying to get over to a LGS in Staten Island (some of my buddies from college live there), but I'll see what I have time, money, and energy for.  Also, I can't do PAX for a while, not even PAX East.  I'm too busy finding a job and paying off debt, lol.  So yeah, in the meantime, I'm going to have to rely on my local friends and fellow gamers in the Essex county area for DDN playtesting.

I meant PAX East, actually.

Twenty Sides a big game store?

Square foot-wise, not so big. Patron-wise, absolutely.

Danny

Basically do not be a clone of 3rd or 4th ed and it is good to go. It also probably has to have some elements of d20 in it like 3rd and 4th ed though and it has that already. Arguements over classes being boring and mechanics I think are going to be slightly pointless. D&D has never really had briliant mechanics- 4th only looked good by comparison to 3.5 IMHO not other RPGs. If they goof up a class or 3 and make them over/underpowered or boring that will not kill the game either IMHO.

Do you suspect perhaps, maybe, that your own opinion, preferences, and desires may be coloring your thoughts on the matter, maybe just a tid bit? (By that I mean, a lot).

So... amongst my own group, they were burnt out on 4e. I still love that system... I just want a little bit of something different (I should check out 13th Age, right?).

Yes, yes you should. For players that actually liked 4e and the direction that it pulled D&D towards, you have three distinct possibilities.

Possibility A: D&DN will offer nowhere near the support for that kind of game that 4e did. This is probably a worst-case scenario, and I don't see it as likely - there is a market for that sort of tactical, option-rich game. In this case, you'll have players sticking with 4e (and likely house-ruling the smiggins out of it), or migrating to 13th Age.

Possibility B: D&DN will offer modules that bring it in-line with 4e, but without significant improvement. I see this as the most likely scenario - not that I think it's even that difficult to improve upon the mechanics and themes in 4e, but because I fear that WotC will be spreading their attention over a dozen or more modules very early on in order to maximize customers, customer satisfaction, and overall profit. Considering that 4e uses the most modern ruleset (made by the people with the most experience in making D&D) it could also prove to be the most challenging to advance in game theorycraft (in comparison to other editions). This means that any big advances on 4e are likely to fall by the wayside in exchange for getting more-or-less the same thing with slightly different rules, compatible with D&DN-Core. In this case, I think a fair amount of people will migrate from 4e to 5e, with a few people not wanting to invest in new books for the same game. You'll also see a lot of people interested in actual improvements on the game heading to 13th Age.

Possibility C: D&DN will offer modules that make the game better in most ways than 4e; fixing the major faults in 4e while advancing the concepts and themes that worked well for 4e. I'm not sure what to think of this idea. It's far-fetched enough in my own cynical viewpoint that I'm not even sure I want to bother secretly hoping for it. WIth 13th age already doing this, it will put D&DN in direct competition with 13th Age - you'll see a lot of split between which system people think do it better.

I think this will be an overall trend - either lack of support for that game style/edition, mediocre support for that, or excellent support for that game style/edition, for every game style/edition. How well WotC does on making it more the lattermost and not the first option will dictate how well D&DN does.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

Eh, I have a weird cross-section of folks I know "in real life".  Most of the folks I know who still play RPGs either prefer to play non-D&D games (to the point where everyone in my group prefers non-D&D, and yet we still play it and I'm not sure why), only play non-D&D games nowadays (the 40k RPGs just ate a swatch of the rpers I know), or will only play 3e (because its what they started with and know, and they really aren't interested in paying again for what they already have).
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I have yet to meet a single "real life" person who has shown an ounce of interest in DDN...  

I've got one 4th ed group anxious to move to it and 1 person in my Pathfinder group keen with a 2nd person willing to give it a go.

Even the people on this forum either don't like it or have some kind of overriding hope that it will improve later...

I can only assume you're saying I'm not a person. For shame

;)

they might not be as numerous as WotC is hoping.

This is true. What's equally true is to say: They might be more numerous then WotC expects. Both statements are equally pointless.