Confusion about "becomes/as/gains/is/are"

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Hello!  I have a couple questions about the words "becomes/as/gains" "is/are"

First of all is it true that if the card says "becomes" or "gains" then even if the source goes away the effect stays?
i.e.
Captivating Vampire
Olivia Voldaren
master Biomancer

so even if those cards leave the battlefield the affected cards would still be vampires or Mutants right?

Secondly is it true that cards that say "is" or "are" that is only applies while the source is still on the battlefield?
i.e.
Ambush Commander
Mephidross Vampire
Prismatic Omen
Realmwright

so if they leave the battlefield forest are no longer elf creatures, my creatures are not all vampires anymore, and my lands are back to normal?

If I understand that correctly then I don't understand how these fit into it:

Dread Slaver - so the creature is no longer a zombie if he leaves the table?
Rise from the Grave - since it is a sorcery are there special rules allowing this effect to not go away (I would expect it to say becomes instead of is)?

Hopefully you can see where my thinking is flawed.  If you can supply rules to help clear things up that would be great!  I tried to find it in the rules, but got overwhelmed around the 600's.

Hello!  I have a couple questions about the words "becomes/as/gains" "is/are"

First of all is it true that if the card says "becomes" or "gains" then even if the source goes away the effect stays?
i.e.
Captivating Vampire
Olivia Voldaren
master Biomancer

so even if those cards leave the battlefield the affected cards would still be vampires or Mutants right?

yes, in the first two cases the object that created the effect is gone right after the ability resolves
the object on the battlefield is not the creator of the effect rather its the triggered ability on the stack that does

some objects on the stack will specify a duration of the effect (Sower of Temptation's trigger or Act of Treason), if none is specified the duration is indefinite

the third case is a replacement effect that puts a type changing effect on the creature changing how it enters the field and it persists for as long as the mutant creature remains on the field
Secondly is it true that cards that say "is" or "are" that is only applies while the source is still on the battlefield?
i.e.
Ambush Commander
Mephidross Vampire
Prismatic Omen
Realmwright

so if they leave the battlefield forest are no longer elf creatures, my creatures are not all vampires anymore, and my lands are back to normal?

yes, because those continuous effects are generated by static abilities on battlefield objects as opposed to the first two prior examples which are generated by resolving activated abilities
the Biomancer also has a static ability, but it changes how a creature enters the field and the effect is linked to the creature entering the field, not Biomancer's ability
If I understand that correctly then I don't understand how these fit into it:

Dread Slaver - so the creature is no longer a zombie if he leaves the table?
Rise from the Grave - since it is a sorcery are there special rules allowing this effect to not go away (I would expect it to say becomes instead of is)?

Hopefully you can see where my thinking is flawed.  If you can supply rules to help clear things up that would be great!  I tried to find it in the rules, but got overwhelmed around the 600's.


those two effects occur by an object on the stack: a triggered ability in the former case and a spell in the latter case.
They don't mention a duration so they last indefinitely (ie. for as long as the creature remains on the field.)

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You're focusing on the wrong aspect. These words typically indicate a continuous effect, but they don't define the duration.


For the duration, you need to see if the effect comes from a static ability, or is the result of a resolving instant, sorcery, activated ability or triggered ability.


A continuous effect generated by the static ability of a permanent works only for as long as the permanent is on the battlefield.


If the effect is generated by an object on the stack resolving (an instant, sorcery, triggered ability or activated ability), the effect must define the duration; if no duration is set, it lasts for the rest of the game.



So, Captivating Vampire's first ability (static) works while the Vampire on the battlefield; the second one (activated) have no set duration so the effect lasts for the rest of the game (both you controlling the creature and it being a vampire).


Another example: Ambush Commander's first ability (static) works while the Commander is on the battlefield; the second one (activated) have a duration of "until end of turn".

[<o>]
You must check if the effect comes from a static ability, or is the result of an activated or triggered ability.

In the latter camp, there's also spell ability (e.g. Giant Growth).

Oh ok!  That clears it up for me, I knew I was missing something.
Thank you 2Goth4U Will_Dice and Ikegami for the quick reply.
You must check if the effect comes from a static ability, or is the result of an activated or triggered ability.

In the latter camp, there's also spell ability (e.g. Giant Growth).



I basically rewrote the post, it's better now?

[<o>]
Ok something is still not clear for me. It took me a while to find an example but this is close enough:

So Bloodlord of Vaasgoth has a static ability but if he leaves the battlefield would the vampires you put out with bloodthirst 3 still have bloodthirst 3?  (edit: actually now that I think abuot it, it is a triggered ability so this wouldn't apply)

I realize in this case, it wouldn't affect gameplay at all if they did or didn't have it, but still I'm trying to understand static abilities better.

Thank you!

(and maybe someone could find a better static ability where it would actually make a difference whether or not it goes away.)
So Bloodlord of Vaasgoth has a static ability but if he leaves the battlefield would the vampires you put out with bloodthirst 3 still have bloodthirst 3?  (edit: actually now that I think abuot it, it is a triggered ability so this wouldn't apply)

I realize in this case, it wouldn't affect gameplay at all if they did or didn't have it



It might matter.

As far as I know, it permanently gains the Bloodthirst 3 'ability', and thus becames ineligible for Petroglyphs even though it's an ability with no relevance on-the-battlefield.   But there are more rules-savvy people here who will correct me if I'm mistaken.
So it sounds like if a static ability says "enters.. as" "gains" or "becomes" then it would persist even after the creature left the battlefield?

I don't see another good example so maybe they wouldn't even make a card like this but,

If Prismatic Omen
said:
"Lands you control become every basic land type."  Then if Prismatic Omen leaves the battlefield, the lands that are already on the battlefield would lose that ability?

How about if it said:
"Lands you control gain (tap): add 1 color of any mana to your mana pool".  When it leaves the battlefield, would the lands lose the ability?
So it sounds like if a static ability says "enters.. as" "gains" or "becomes" then it would persist even after the creature left the battlefield?

No, that's wrong.

Continuous effects from static abilities apply only as long as the object with the ability is in the relevant zone. For most abilities of objects with permanent types, as long as it is on the battlefield (but see the list of exceptions in 112.6 for abilities that work in other zones). As soomn as the permanent with the ability leaves the battlefield, the effect ends. There is one exception to that statement, and that is Titania's Song - because the card itself explicitly declares the duration of the effect lasts beyond the moment the Song leaves the battlefield.

If Prismatic Omen
said:
"Lands you control become every basic land type."  Then if Prismatic Omen leaves the battlefield, the lands that are already on the battlefield would lose that ability?

That is the way Prismatic Omen does work.

How about if it said:
"Lands you control gain (tap): add 1 color of any mana to your mana pool"  When it leaves the battlefield, would the lands lose the ability?

Yes, because the proposed wording doesn't say otherwise.

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Static abilities that generate a continuous effect are only active while they are on the battlefield (or the appropriate zone for things like Anger)

For continuous effects that generate a replacement effect like on Master Biomancer, they don't really give the ability directly rather they modify how the creature spell resolves so the effect is from an object on the stack* (the creature spell) and persists regardless of what occurs to Biomancer.

Prismatic Omen if worded with your alternate wording would cease giving the abilty to tap for mana.

However, if it had a static ability that generated a replacement effect that said "Lands you control enter the battlefield as every basic land type in addition to their other types", then those lands would retain that ability once Omen left, however, new lands would be unaffected.

Bloodlord's trigger actually mods the creature spell on the stack, but the change carries forward to the creature permanent on the field because of this rule.
400.7a Effects from spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities that change the characteristics of a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to the permanent that spell becomes.

So Bloodlord of Vaasgoth has a static triggered ability but if he leaves the battlefield would the vampires you put out with bloodthirst 3 still have bloodthirst 3? (edit: actually now that I think about it, it is a triggered ability YES! so this wouldn't apply)

yes, see 400.7a above in combination with the fact that the effect from the trigger does not specify a duration.

* technically, the effect starts the moment the permanent enters the field so it could apply to creatures entering the field from other zones (eg. graveyard by Unburial Rites), but the creature is still entering the field because of something on the stack and the effect comes from there

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DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

 

Taking offers on my set of unopened limited edition full art judge foil basic lands, message me if interested.
 

Great! thank you again for clearing that up.