Alternatives to Tapland

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Looking through all "balanced" dual lands, we see the following in terms of downsides:

-ETB tapped
-Can only tap once every other turn
-Deal damage to you

Honestly thats pretty much it. So I'm looking for a common dual land cycle (in my view, simple dual lands should all be common, because they are very simple) that is a little more innovative. So far I've come up with the following:

1. Heal Them
I'm surprised this hasn't been done before.

Marsh
Land
When Marsh enters the battlefield, target opponent gains 3 life. 
: Add or to your mana pool.

2. Give them information

Verdant Glade
Land
Reveal your hand, : Add or to your mana pool.

3. Require Switching Time 
 

Fault Line
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
: Fault line is a mountain in addition to its other land types.
: Fault line is a plains in addition to its other land types.

4. Double Tap

Sluggish River
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
Tap another permanent you control, : Add or to your mana pool.

Which do you think is the most interesting/elegant for fitting into the slots I need? Or is there some other alterna
tive you can think of. 
The last one seems weak, the first two are op.
Well, the opponent gaining 2 life doesn't seem terribly better than you losing two life, and the amount it is better by seems balanced (to me) by the fact that (1) it doesn't have basic land types and (2) it doesn't have the option of coming into play tapped to void that cost. So while some would call comparisons to the shocklands unfair, the card does seem relatively balanced compared to them.
We could borrow something from the Karoo cycle:

Entropy's River

Land

When ~ ETB, return a land you control to its owner's hand.

: Add or to your mana pool.

Technically, it's weaker than a tapland, usually, but it still might find a place, and you can tap a land, play it, and then tap it for two mana.

Or, borrowing from the shocklands:

Rakdos Dungeon

Land -- Swamp Mountain

When ~ ETB, you lose 1 life.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
The opponent gaining life is next to meaningless, that's why grove of the burnwillows is so amazing. That and certain combos
Grove of the Burnwillows is amazing solely because of Punishing Fire.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

The opponent gaining life is next to meaningless, that's why grove of the burnwillows is so amazing. That and certain combos



Plus, infect.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
The opponent gaining life is next to meaningless, that's why grove of the burnwillows is so amazing. That and certain combos



Plus, infect.



plus your shockland that shocks less is obviously broken.
The opponent gaining life is next to meaningless, that's why grove of the burnwillows is so amazing. That and certain combos



Plus, infect.



plus your shockland that shocks less is obviously broken.



It's a tradeoff. You don't have the modality. You can't have it tap, but you have to lose 1 life.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
So how much would it have to give the opponent for it not to be "next to meaningless." Paying away your own life is also "next to meaningless" much of the time, except when you are low, and in that case, this is what the coming into play tapped is for. My card doesn't have the problems late game when you are low-life, but then again, it doesn't have the coming into play tapped option that the shocklands have. 
We could borrow something from the Karoo cycle:

Entropy's River

Land

When ~ ETB, return a land you control to its owner's hand.

: Add or to your mana pool.

Technically, it's weaker than a tapland, usually, but it still might find a place, and you can tap a land, play it, and then tap it for two mana.

Or, borrowing from the shocklands:

Rakdos Dungeon

Land -- Swamp Mountain

When ~ ETB, you lose 1 life.


I like the river, though it doesn't feel very common; Its very niche, and I've always thought bouncelands belonged at uncommon or even rare. 
The dungeon feels like it needs to lose the basic land types, but then it feels OK, about on par with my heal land.
So how much would it have to give the opponent for it not to be "next to meaningless."



In infect? 20, but only if he's playing Felidar Sovereign and somehow gets it out before he's on a one-turn clock. Yeah, not going to happen.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Not in infect. In general. I'm not particularly worried about infect getting another cheap dual.
Added another possiblity, and upped the heal to 3. If people are worried about infect, I could make it remove counter(s). 
The opponent gaining life is next to meaningless, that's why grove of the burnwillows is so amazing. That and certain combos



Plus, infect.



plus your shockland that shocks less is obviously broken.



It's a tradeoff. You don't have the modality. You can't have it tap, but you have to lose 1 life.



I thought these were fairly balanced, if a little strong:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

I like the transforming land, though at common it should lose other types first. Maybe.
The first land (heal them) seems fine. 3 life is a good number. Even a control deck will feel their clock slowed down by a turn if they use too much of these. Sure there will be a few odd decks that don't care about giving the opponent life, well who cares if some niche decks get a slightly better mana base?


The second land seems fine, I made something similar a while ago

Legendary land
Play with your hand revealed
T: Add one of any color to your mana pool


Third one has memory issues, don't like it as much.

Fourth one seems like it could let you tap for any color - it sorta reminds me of Springleaf Drum. Sure it would obsolete Shimmering Grotto but does anyone even use that card?
The opponent gaining life is next to meaningless, that's why grove of the burnwillows is so amazing. That and certain combos



Plus, infect.



plus your shockland that shocks less is obviously broken.


It is a Fetchland that gains arguable versatility at the sacrificing of not being able to fetch a dual in any color you want and landfall.
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
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57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
The difference between a dual and a fetch (if the fetch could only grab basics) are actually pretty relevant. In a 2 color deck it doesn't seem like much except letting you cast a spell for u on turn 1 and then a spell for bb on turn 2, but in a 3 or more color deck, if you start with a mountain and a u/b dual you're fine, if you start with a mountain and a u/b fetch, what do you fetch?

I do like the idea of the shockland that doesnt let you choose whether to be shocked, but it probably still has to be 2 damage. I wonder if a land that could produce 3 colors of mana would be fair if you took a forced shock when it cip. 
What are you talking about Dr d? Bay made a dual land that hits you for 1. O_o
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