human race

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i think the humans are once again underpowered to all the other races. what does every one else think?

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I think that you've got to be kidding me.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
no really i think they are still under powered compaired to the other races

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Do you want to explain that position? Because general consensus last I heard was that Humans in D&D Next are still essentially the only race worth playing, with the possible exception of some races adhering ardently to their stereotypes because of how pigeon-holing some of the current racial features are.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I think humans are overpowered at low levels, but after a few stat buffs their natural boost isn't as impressive.
Regardless, I know you've given a lot of thought to how humans could be more compelling, Crimson. Hopefully we'll see a race revision soon.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
If sci fi shows have taught me anything, it is that humans are special because of their indominable spirit.  They should have something to reflect that rather than massive ability score boosts.
Depends on how you are doing stats crimson. Array or pointbuy? Humans are penultimate. If you are rolling, then the other races can easily edge human out.

Especially now if they go with changing MDD to [w] 
My two copper.
all the humans get are
Ability Score Adjustment: One starting ability score of your choice increases by 2, and all your other ability scores increase by 1.
Size: Medium.
Speed: 30 feet.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common.

but they dont get any bonus feat or and extra skills. they took that away. but im pretty sure none of that is going to help them with seeing in the dark or in low-light area making them useless cause then you have to hold a light up just to see and fight with on hand or only fight with in the radius of the light. they dont get any kind of Weapon Training, or another special ability like the Halflings get lucky, the elves get Free Spirit, and dwarfs even get Stonecunning and to top that off they get a sub branch that gives them two more abilities. the other races get all this stuff while humans only get bonus Ability Score Adjustments. so when you make a human character it will always be the biggest gamble cause if all your rolls for your ability scores are in between 5-12 and your DM wont let you change your rolls or reroll then what are you going to relay on that might get you out of a bad situation? humans are suppose to be about to adopt up they cant do that because they took away two of the greatest things a human had the bonus feat and skills.

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i think they should keep the Ability Score Adjustments and add the bonus feat and bonus skills back

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You seem to be greatly underappreciating how awesome having +1 to all ability scores over every other race can really be. Part of that seems to be because you roll for ability scores, which I don't think very many people do anymore nowadays. Seriously, the other races' features may be more flashy, but they're far more limited in usage compared to having higher ability scores, especially because of how important ability scores are in D&D Next.

Also, the reason that bonus skill and feat have been kept out of the Human in this edition is because they complicate character creation significantly for new players.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
i dont under appreciate it cause i really like the bonus. but they still dont start out with a major list of random stuff that could get you out of the worse of situations. all they get is a +1 to every ability but one a +2 to one. but if you have a lvl 5 fighter Mountain Dwarf with a str of 16 using a warhammer and waring Mithral plate in a PvP with a lvl 5 fighter human wearing and using the same weapon and armor and having the same stats because of his bonus ability scores who do you think is going to win? and not only that if they or out side it might be an even fight out once it starts to get dark the winner is going to be the dwarf. its the little things that go in to making a character that makes them so good and its the little things that will win you a fight or make you lose a fight.

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if you have a lvl 5 fighter Mountain Dwarf with a str of 16 using a warhammer and waring Mithral plate in a PvP with a lvl 5 fighter human wearing and using the same weapon and armor and having the same stats because of his bonus ability scores who do you think is going to win?

That doesn't prove anything.

its the little things that go in to making a character that makes them so good and its the little things that will win you a fight or make you lose a fight.

That's exactly right, and +1 to all ability scores is that "little thing". It's not as flashy an ability like what other races get, but it's reliable and consistant. It's just subtle such that you don't even realize how often it comes up and ends up mattering.

Also, why does it always say "html_removed" at the bottom of your posts?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
it proves a lot the dwarf has the upper hand  in that fight because normally the war hammer does 1d8 but in the hands of a dwarf it does 1d10 and normally Mithral plate would make the persons AC 18 but with the Mountain Dwarf it makes it 19 so not only can he do more damage but he also has more AC. so not only the human have to roll higher but the dwarf can do more damage as well.

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Ability scores are one of the few bonuses players get in this new edition.  High ability scores are therefore of incredible value.

Lucky rolls could overcome the human advantage of +7 to ability scores but in a point buy system, a human is much more powerful than elves, dwarves, or halflings

Light spell is a cantrip so it can be cast at will.  Low light vision is therefore less necessary.  Humans and halflings don't need to carry anything extra if they have one person in the party who can cast light.

A human might get
+1 to attacks
+1 to saves
+1 to ability checks (including initiative)
+1 to hit ponts/level
+1 to AC
+1 to damage
+1 to all skills
I half roll for stats and point buy the rest so it adding an extra point would be fun. But yes here comes the big Butt!!! You cant honestly ship with this. Wotc cant sell me that this is the mark of humanity. That this is their creative best. 
it proves a lot

It actually doesn't prove anything. PvP comparisons pretty much never do. There are so many factors that they completely fail at considering.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
that is a big MIGHT there buddy but if the human is alone then he/she isnt has go as another race more built for that class or the abilities that the other races get you can think of a group cause you will not always be in a group. your character has to be able to depend on them self and not just relay on every one else.

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and there is more to a character then just ability scores. ability scores is only a part of making a character. another part of it is why you are making and why you are choosing that race.

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it proves a lot the dwarf has the upper hand  in that fight because normally the war hammer does 1d8 but in the hands of a dwarf it does 1d10 and normally Mithral plate would make the persons AC 18 but with the Mountain Dwarf it makes it 19 so not only can he do more damage but he also has more AC. so not only the human have to roll higher but the dwarf can do more damage as well.

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Using 27 Point Buy
8th level Human Fighter AC19, 77hp
20 Str (15+2+1+2)
12 Dex (11+1)
18 Con (15+1+2)
10 Int
13 Wis (11+1)
10 Cha
Longsword +7 to hit, 1d8+5 damage+MDD
Mithral Plate + Shield

8th level Mountain Dwarf Fighter  AC20, 69 hp
18 Str (15+1+2)
10 Dex
17 Con (15+2)
10 Int
12 Wis (+1)
10 Cha
Warhammer +6 to hit, 1d10+4 damage+MDD
Mithral Plate + Shield

Dwarf has +1 AC
Human has +1 to attack, +1 to dex checks, +1 to con checks, +1 to strength checks, and 8 more hit points
Damage is basically the same.
that is a big MIGHT there buddy but if the human is alone then he/she isnt has go as another race more built for that class or the abilities that the other races get you can think of a group cause you will not always be in a group. your character has to be able to depend on them self and not just relay on every one else.

and there is more to a character then just ability scores. ability scores is only a part of making a character. another part of it is why you are making and why you are choosing that race.

I hope that this doesn't come across as rude, but is English not your first language? Because I'm having trouble understanding your posts. Like, there are words, but the absense of things like basic punctuation are making it difficult to discern what you're trying to communicate.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
now that is harder to disagree with lol but then what comes in to play next is the environment and the feats. what if the battle takes so long it starts to get dark. if there is a group then its not so one sided but if it is only the human and the dwarf then the battle is going to get one sided real quick. and that is where all that "flashy" stuff comes in to play. yes in a normal sunny open field the human might be a little better or just as good as the person he or she is fighting but once all that normal stuff changes and he/she gets throne in to a forest or a cave or even if its night time there is no chance that the human would beat any other race in a fight. the only chance a human has at that point would be his group and what if he wasn't with a group or his group died? he has nothing to relay on when it comes to race you can always run out of spells and arrows and even lose your weapon leaving you with just your race and that where  the humans are underpowered. for a human to be better or just as good as the conditions must suit the human but with the other races they dont need the conditions to suit them they are just fine 70-75% of the time where humans are just fine 40-50% of the time.

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English is my first language and sorry i leave stuff out sometimes and add an extra latter here and there. normal i dont find out i do it in till after i post then i try and go back and fix it cause when i read it my eyes say that its all there and it is all correct.


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what if the battle takes so long it starts to get dark.

One round of combat takes 6 seconds. That's never going to happen, and neither are any of the other incredibly specific scenarios that you describe. And even if they did, we could come up with any number of other incredibly specific scenarios where the Human would come out on top.

there is no chance that the human would beat any other race in a fight.

You need to let go of these PvP scenarios, because the fact is that they are literally completely insignificant and prove nothing.

English is my first language and sorry i leave stuff out sometimes and add an extra latter here and there. normal i dont find out i do it in till after i post then i try and go back and fix it cause when i read it my eyes say that its all there and is all correct.

Again, I hope that this doesn't come across as rude, but this is a forum, not a text message. Basic proficiency with punctuation, capitalization, and so on are pretty much required if you want people to take you seriously. Not capizalizing your I's, for example, or not ending your sentences with periods are things that there's not really any excuse for if you're a native writer. Mistakes happen every once in a while, of course, but try reading over what you're typing a couple of times and seeing how it comes across before you submit a post.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
capizalizing is pointless there is no need for it if every understands the world and the only symbols that have wroth is . , ? ! " ( ) / : anything else is not needed and dosent have worth to me. and i have been in plenty of situations where i have been in PvP and not in a group and/or everyone in my group is dead and it was that extra feat and skills that got me out of that situation or helped me win the one on one. and another thing is that you never know what could happen so saying that it will never happen is a lie. and just because you where forced in to thinking that all that stuff is needed tell that to every other language in the world. (besides emoticons)

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if all your rolls for your ability scores are...


    If that is the situation, you have a much worse problem than that some race is wimpy.  You have players who roll bad, and quit the game because they are outshined, and you have players that roll good [even when we ignore all those assisted dice] and dominate play, causing the others to quit the game.   With the home game, this is a serious problem that a lot of unnecessary work can overcome.  With a Living game, it is ruled out right away.
I think the +7 is way too much. I'd be happy with a bonus feat and skills and no ability adjustment at all.
English is my first language and sorry i leave stuff out sometimes and add an extra latter here and there. normal i dont find out i do it in till after i post then i try and go back and fix it cause when i read it my eyes say that its all there and it is all correct.


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Slow down and your posts will be more enjoyable to read.
capizalizing is pointless there is no need for it if every understands the world and the only symbols that have wroth is . , ? ! " ( ) / : anything else is not needed and dosent have worth to me. 



iamactuallyfluentinanumberoflanguagesthatdonotusespacesorcapitalization
butenglishisnotoneofthoselanguagessoipreferifyouusethecorrectgrammarrules
I think the +7 is way too much. I'd be happy with a bonus feat and skills and no ability adjustment at all.


Agreed. I think the game designers are quite clear that they will revisit race in a later test and certainly make changes before the first printing.
Gah! Way to kill the page layout with the drivel there, kezzek!

Sorry. I'll change it later. Seems my cell phone won't let me.
If sci fi shows have taught me anything, it is that humans are special because of their indominable spirit.  They should have something to reflect that rather than massive ability score boosts.



I suggested this:


Empty Inside (Human Racial Trait)
Humans, as a race, are empty inside, as if their souls are incomplete.  Every human seeks something to fill the inescapable void within them.  For some, this is family and friends, for others it's power, wealth, prestige, religion, or a littany of vices a mile long.  This emptiness drives humanity, focuses them, and turns their empty souls into fortresses of resolve.  Once per encounter, Humans have the ability to cancel a disadvantage they face, or the advantage of an opponent attacking them.



Now that's a human racial trait that really fits us.

Also, some people have suggested changing the name to "Driven."
There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

slightly off topic but I'd like to see humans redesigned with several subraces, heres my break down of subraces

default
villager
city-dweller

and since humans are known to have half breed children

half orc
half elf
aasimar
tiefling
half dragon or dragonborn maybe

not sure what the base stuff would be other then size and speed, but I imagine the aasimar subrace would have a cleric cantrip like the high elf gets a wizard one and tiefling or half dragon might get a sorcerer cantrip
    I've removed content from this thread because baiting/trolling is a violation of the Code of Conduct.  You can review the Code of Conduct here www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
Now, human is broken and outclass all other race.

If they aren't get rid of that overpower +2 to one/+1 to all other, human will be ban from my game.

And it's stupid for RP, too.

What! Human is the strongest, quickest, toughest, smartest, handsomest race on the planet, now!
Are you kidding me?
capizalizing is pointless there is no need for it
and just because you where forced in to thinking that all that stuff is needed tell that to every other language in the world.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that English is the only language in the world that uses capitalization and punctuation? Because that would be mistaken. In fact, that would be very mistaken.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
If I remember correctly we inherited the tendency from latin, or at least the latin copies of the bible manufactured in the middle ages.
If sci fi shows have taught me anything, it is that humans are special because of their indominable spirit.  They should have something to reflect that rather than massive ability score boosts.



I suggested this:


Empty Inside (Human Racial Trait)
Humans, as a race, are empty inside, as if their souls are incomplete.  Every human seeks something to fill the inescapable void within them.  For some, this is family and friends, for others it's power, wealth, prestige, religion, or a littany of vices a mile long.  This emptiness drives humanity, focuses them, and turns their empty souls into fortresses of resolve.  Once per encounter, Humans have the ability to cancel a disadvantage they face, or the advantage of an opponent attacking them.



Now that's a human racial trait that really fits us.

Also, some people have suggested changing the name to "Driven."



I also give human stat bonuses a thumbs down.  Although I could probably live with +1 to two stats I'd probably only find that acceptable is the other races got +2 to one stat.  I've liked the suggestion that humans' determination should be reflected in their racial traits.  Maybe a global +1 to all saves might be ok  but I think I'd prefer something that reflects their brief but glorious existence such as spending hit dice to re-roll saving throws.  Any racial trait needs to be swappable depending on which module you are using though - this trait would not work if you use one of the alternate healing systems.

Would it be better if other races had a +1 'flex stat'? For example, dwarves get a +1 in Strength or Constitution and then another +1 that can go into any stat (including Strength or Constitution). Or elves can get a bonus to Dexterity and then a +1 in any stat, including Dexterity. That way, other races can start with a higher stat and still have their racial goodies.
I'd be happy if humans were just given +1 strength actually.  In 1e they were the race with the highest strength cap.  But I think the point is that they need something beyond a stat bonus and like the other races, they should lose none of their flavour if they get no stat bonus at all.
I don't think they should get a specified stat bonus. The game needs a race that's the baseline, neutral race, not geared toward any particular class (I mean you can play any class with any race just fine, but Elves are obviously naturally suited best for Rangers and Wizards, Dwarves for Clerics and Fighters, Half-Orcs for Barbarians, whether they choose to go down those paths or not). Humans are my favorite because (after they got rid of racial stat restriction) they're just the simple race that can be anything without any benefit or drawback. So if they have to get a stat boost at all it should be the player's choice.

Half-Orc should be the race with a Strength bonus. I think they are stronger than Humans, Eves are more intelligent and agile, Dwarves are tougher and wiser. Humans are just versatile and good at a little of everything. The current system tries to reflect that, but it instead makes them the best at everything.