Graft and Evolve

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I am planning on making a heavily Simic-themed EDH deck soon and for some reason I get the feeling theres a pitfall I am not seeing between graft and evolve...

They LOOK like they combine just fine... is there anything I am missing... or is there any specific comboes anyone thinks I should watch out for?
Graft and evolve don't combo with each other at all. Graft can't be used to help trigger your evolve guys, and grafting a counter onto an evolve creature is basically a waste since any creature would have gotten you that counter anyway.
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Just as a clarification playing a grafting creature when an evolve creature is already out will still cause it to evolve becomes it enters play with the counters on it right?

Its just you cannot use graft on a creature entering the battlefield to 'cheat' evolve into triggering? 
I think what Fezz is saying is you can't add a counter from a Graft creature to another creature to make it larger and thus trigger Evolve. But yes, if a 0/0 Graft creature enters the field with 4 counters on it, it will trigger any Evolve creature small enough to be triggered by a 4/4.

Might just be me, but I'm not seeing Evolve being a big hit in EDH as a theme. Fathom Mage? Sure. But a standard beater that gets bigger really slowly? Not so much.

Graft on the other hand.....It lends itself to all sorts of shenanigans.

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.




Which brings me to my next question, is there any Graft/Evolve creatures that would never be put into an EDH deck. You think that most of the evolve are not worth using? Just Fathom MageGyre SageSimic Fluxmage, and Simic Manipulator?

Which graft creatures do you think are unusable in EDH?
Graft creatures have the big problem that their counters don't replenish like with evolve, e.g. you need proliferate and similar effects to get the most out of them. But, when you do, things can get degenerate fast.

I'm torn on Vigean Hydropon. It's a nice source of counters, but useless otherwise.

If you combine graft and evolve, you might run into problems with counters moved over from graft creatures making your evolve creatures too large to evolve. Then again, Nimbus Swimmer is great, it can be bounced and replayed with a different X to keep evolving.

I wouldn't play creatues with only graft/evolve and no other abilities unless you can recur them.

Also, graft creatures make nice targets for copy/clone effects. Evolve creatures not so much.

Oh, and beware of AEther Snap and Vampire Hexmage.


To autocard: [c]Killer Whale[/c] ⇒ Killer Whale

All I know is I ended up pulling all my creatures with graft from my deck after I realized in MtGO that it triggers for every. Single. Creature.
Someone pulled a mass reanimate and I practically timed myself out dealing with all the triggers.
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I'd include...

Experiment Kraj makes a nice backup general. Also, there's often some prettty nice effects to steal. Even when there isn't, you can copy your own creatures abilities or just get more +1/+1 counters.

With all theese +1/+1 counters around, you need to protect against boardwipes. So...

draining whelk
cauldron of souls
fuel for the cause

Fertilid can become insane ramp

Simic Guildmage creates lots of flexibility in terms of attacking and blocking. Unlike Bioshift, he can move only one counter at a time, but is repeatable. Depending on wether you end up with enough untap effects, power conduit could provide some redundancy.

On a related note...
Zameck Guildmage is a nice source of additional counters and card draw.

It seems to me like there's a bit too much counter doubling and proliferate in the list, but aside from that, it looks pretty solid. I find it hard to point at other specific cards to in-/exclude without knowing more about the general outline of the deck.


To autocard: [c]Killer Whale[/c] ⇒ Killer Whale

Like most of my EDH decks, my goal is not to win, its a nice bonus, but I aim to put together all the puzzle pieces for interesting game situations. The aim of this deck is to build around the concept of +1/+1 counters DOING things. Either moving around or unlocking abilities, or just all around allowing for 'good stuff'. 

Doing it in Simic colors even tho BUG might be perferred in honor of the new simic cards out. I really want to get the chance to play with Zegana, Master Biomancer, and Zameck Guildmage (whom I am indeed embarressed to admit I left out of the list even though I intended for him to be there) along with a few oldies like Kraj.

I get a little bit of this concept already in my Political Rubinia deck (which I honestly should post soon) but that deck is more geared toward moving auras around instead of +1/+1 counters.

My problem with building EDH decks is I always end up with more puzzle pieces than I can fit in. So I like to ask other peoples opinions about which cards are overrated more than I ask which cards do I NEED...

Think I may want to add more clone cards into this mix after I figure out which cards above are not up to snuff.

Technically on topic but an odd question... what would happen if a land not only had graft 1 (I know it already exists) but also had evolve... would evolve only be able to trigger if the land was animated?... do the +1/+1 counters actually give it power and toughness if its unanimated... if it worked... I would love to see it printed in Dragon's Maze but I doubt they would bring back Graft this block.. maybe the next Future Sight type set...
Well, I try to build a Simic-type deck myself at this time - had one for ages and want to update it with the new cards.
There are a few cards that are definetely to recommend:
Fungal Behemoth: In a deck with lots of +1/+1 counters, the Behemoth is exactly what it is named: A behemoth. More often than not, I can get a 14/14 or something along the lines on turn 4-6 - which is simply powerful. Also, it's suspend effect is very useful.
Cytoshape: If you use Graft-Creatures, this one is simply great. DUe to Graft Creatures having 0/0, Cytoshape is a powerful creature-destruction spell while having a Graft-Creature on the field. A useful side-effect of destroying a creature this way is: Any kind of protection abilities, except protecton from color/spells or shroud/hexproof, is useless against this spell. You neither do damage, nor do you destroy. In addition to that, Cytoshape counters leaves play effect neatly. Also, this card gives damn much utility and possibilities~ I often use it for a sure kill together with my Fungal Behemoth: Attack with a number of creatures, cytoshape an unblocked one into the behemoth ->Profit.
Simic SKyswallower: Simply a gamewinner - Flying, Trample, Shroud. Also, Graft does not target, so you can move +1/+1 counters on it via graft, to make the skyswallower be insanely powerful.
Plaxcaster Frogling/Cytoplast Rootkin: These two are what I consider the most powerful Graft creatures. Both have a good mana/raw power ratio and their side effects arepowerful: The Frogling is a powerful protction for your creatures and the Rootkin can boost your creatures up insanely well.
Renegade Krasis+Masterbiomage: Just get a +1/+1 counter on the master biomage, and then, each creature you play WILL trigger evolve for the Krasis - and with each evolve, everything else gets stronger, including the Biomage. So for each creature you play, the next creature will get one more +1/+1 counter, allowing the Krasis to evolve with each creature, as weak as it may be, to evolve. Heck, even a bird lets it evolve ^.^
Forgotten Ancient: Another damn powerful creature. The ancient is very good as +1/+1-distributor and quickly makes your creatures twofold in strength.
Instead of Gilderbairn, one can just use Vorel. Same effect, Same cost, more defense and not forced to be tapped to use his effect~ I use Vorel for a good early defense, which he has with 1/4.

The problems a simic-deck usually has: It does not like control decks at all, as they can really hinder it's combo-strength. Also, it is not the fastest deck: You need a number of turns to power yourself up. It still is moderately fast, though.
THe Skyswallower works pretty well against a number of control decks - if uncountered, it wreaks havoc. You can twiddle in some control through cytoshape, psionic blast and counterspells.
I also noticed - the deck does need much carddraw, which is why I do not the fathom mage. I use Zegana, as she can really boosts you later in the game heavily. In addition to that, I use coiling oracles as a simple card draw/probable landfall creature, to speed up my early. Birds of Paradise work pretty well in the deck, too.
Another problem I have encountered: The hardest thing in a simic deck is getting +1/+1 counters on creatures, which do not have any after they came into play. Most cards that somehow grant +1/+1 counters simply do not fit well into the deck, as you have other, better things. Forgotten Ancient+Fungal Behemoth help out a lot - also the graft land is useful, as it does not cost anything(It's a land, after all).
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