Stealth

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Stealth is still one of the harder things to explain to new players. However, one thing in particular is creating a nagging issue for me:

- If someone tries to hide, she makes a dex check, then all her opponents immediately make a wisdom check?
- So if say, 5 pc's try to hide (on their respective turns) during combat with a dozen monsters... each monster would make a Wisdom check on each PC's turn (or about 65 d20 rolls)?
- Or, every PC needs to roll Wisdom each time a goblin uses it sneaky trait (no action)?... That might be another 65 d20 rolls each round.

Is this correct?

note: I understand that DM's might come up with some houseruled shortcuts... but shouldn't the rules provide those where they are essential? Or at least provide tips and consistency.
Basically, yes.   Perhaps the best solution would be to rely on a passive Wisdom for faster resolution.

When you attempt to hide from one or more creatures, your Dexterity check is opposed by the Wisdom check of any creature who might notice you or the Intelligence check of a creature that is actively searching for signs of your presence.You make one Dexterity check for this contest. Note your result, and use it as your check for all contests until you are discovered or stop hiding. (How To Play PDF pg. 08)

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Yea. This is actually a big problem. They need to bring back the passive Perception score from 4e. A passive spot/listen score and a basic passive perception score. Actively rolling any sort of perception check should be an action.  


Yea. This is actually a big problem. They need to bring back the passive Perception score from 4e. A passive spot/listen score and a basic passive perception score. Actively rolling any sort of perception check should be an action.  




That's a good idea.  This way, there is a fixed DC for the Rogue to roll against unless the foe(s) is/are actively looking for someone or something sneaking around.

A Brave Knight of WTF

fwiw:  the Caves of chaos adventure mentions things like: "Nine kobolds hide in woods around the cave mouth (DC 13 Wisdom to notice"

And 3.5e mentioned the following: "In the case of people trying to be quiet, the DCs given on the table could be replaced by Move Silently checks, in which case the indicated DC would be their average check result (or close to it). For instance, the DC 19 noted on the table for a cat stalking means that an average cat has a +9 bonus on Move Silently checks. Assuming an average roll of 10 on 1d20, its Move Silently check result would be 19". So the idea of having static DC's that are based on a creature's average roll has some precedence  (prior to the existence of passive perception).

Also, 1e was even simpler in just having single percentile chance to hide (regardless of who was searching for you).
What I do is have the sneaking person roll their check, then keep that number as the DC for all creatures to roll against, until they take another action that could potentially expose them like moving out in the open or missing with a ranged weapon, then they need to reroll the check (succeeding on an attack automatically exposes them unless they have the feat to hide after killing a target). Then, anyone looking for them doesn't get an immediate attempt to notice them, but on their turn they always get a roll if they're nearby. I don't have rules support for this, but it's been working very well without overcomplicating everything.

I don't think spot/listen checks should take an action, that's a complete waste of an action.
Another alternative could be to handle this with group checks for all team monsters or group of monsters.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Or you can just roll once for each monster, and compare that to each character's Stealth check.

For example, let's say 2 PCs are trying to hide from an orc. The PCs roll 12 and 17 on their Dex checks. The DM rolls a Wis check for the orc.  He gets 15. The orc notices the PC that rolled a 12, but not the PC that rolled 17.



I don't think spot/listen checks should take an action, that's a complete waste of an action.




True - but advantage is too good of a benefit to be make hiding not take an action.


Personally - I think they should go with something similar to some ideas that were in earlier packets:


Hiding takes an action.  However (kind of like Word of Power) there are certain other types of actions you can take at the same time.  For example, you cannot attack and hide in the same action.  But (for example) you ought to be able to load a crossbow and hide at the same time.  You probably ought to be able to drink a potion and hide at the same time.   Maybe a rule that states that you cannot do anything that would reveal your location, attack, cast a spell or move  - but otherwise (like Words of Power) you can take another action as part of the same turn when you hide.


Carl
Or you can just roll once for each monster, and compare that to each character's Stealth check.

For example, let's say 2 PCs are trying to hide from an orc. The PCs roll 12 and 17 on their Dex checks. The DM rolls a Wis check for the orc.  He gets 15. The orc notices the PC that rolled a 12, but not the PC that rolled 17.



+1 I think this is good suggestion too.

A single ability check per contest to hide or find a hidden creature.

 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

I think the general problem in mass contests like this is the d20. In a scenario where 4 people has to try and hide from 4 other people its highly unlikely that the hiders will be successful, even if all 4 are trained in hiding and the spotters are not high in wis. The hiders just need one low roll to ruin it all and the spotters just one high one. And with a d20 the random factor is just too high.
I dont have any fix for this. Oops boss here post more later

 
I think the general problem in mass contests like this is the d20. In a scenario where 4 people has to try and hide from 4 other people its highly unlikely that the hiders will be successful, even if all 4 are trained in hiding and the spotters are not high in wis. The hiders just need one low roll to ruin it all and the spotters just one high one. And with a d20 the random factor is just too high.
I dont have any fix for this. Oops boss here post more later

 



If one fails and three pass, that can also work in your favor. Most of the party can still be hidden and ambush the enemies when they come to attack the apparent lone hero.
Or you can just roll once for each monster, and compare that to each character's Stealth check.

Thing is: the PC's are each hiding at different times (i.e. on their own turns).


One kludge I used to save time is:
1) Goblins declare they are hiding (no roll)
2) Goblins attack a PC
3) Roll Hide for any of the goblins that missed their attack roll (i.e. where Advantage would matter) while the PC makes a Spot roll
4) Reroll attacks for any goblins that would've had Advantage.

The kludge isn't great though, and unsuitable for a lot of situations.