Sunflare

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"Let your sins will be purified with celestal FIRE!"

It's a cleric/monk hybrid of Pelor. Main methof of fighting is applying fire and radiant vulnerabilities on enemies and setting them ablaze. Extremely spectacular and lore friendly. Not meant to be extremely optimized since it's for a forum game, but nevertheless I find the concept cool and mechanically rewarding.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 12
Elf, Cleric|Monk, Radiant Fist
Hybrid Cleric: Battle Cleric's Lore
Monastic Tradition (Hybrid): Centered Breath (Hybrid)
Hybrid Monk: Hybrid Monk Fortitude
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Mace)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 21, Int 11, Wis 21, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 11.


AC: 32 Fort: 22 Reflex: 27 Will: 27
HP: 88 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +16, Perception +18, Religion +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Arcana +6, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +8, Heal +11, History +6, Intimidate +7, Nature +15, Stealth +11, Streetwise +7, Thievery +11, Athletics +5

FEATS
Radiant Fist: Solar Enemy
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: Superior Reflexes
Level 6: Deadly Draw
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 10: Armor Finesse (retrained to Defensive Advantage at Level 12)
Level 11: Starblade Flurry
Level 12: Armor Specialization (Scale)

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Five Storms
Hybrid at-will 1: Sonnlinor's Hammer
Hybrid encounter 1: Light the Fire
Hybrid daily 1: Risen Sun
Hybrid utility 2: Bless
Hybrid encounter 3: Death Surge
Hybrid daily 5: Inspire Fervor
Hybrid utility 6: Quicksilver Motion
Hybrid encounter 7: Burning Brand
Hybrid daily 9: Water Gives Way
Hybrid utility 10: Word of Vigor

ITEMS
Rhythm Blade Dagger +1, Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3), Bloodiron Wyvernscale Armor +3, Gloves of Piercing (heroic tier), Crusader's Mace +2, Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier), Raven Cloak +2, Rushing Cleats (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Circlet of Second Chances (heroic tier), Symbol of Scorned Fate +1, Sun Globe (heroic tier), Ghost Strike Ki Focus +1
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We use Crusader's Maceto turn half damage into radiant damage to proc the radiant vulnerability with. Note the wording - it's half fire/half radiant, which means we can proc both vulnerabilities.

Light the Fire, BUrning Brand, Risen Sun are all fire monk powers. Each one of them does some damage on a hit and then does a seperate instance of small fire damage. With crusader's mace half of all this fire damage is radiant. This means we proc both vulnerabilitis.

So it goes like this - we use Quicksilver motion to get into position. 2 minors for Solar enemy and Sarifal Blessing. Now everyone around me in Burst 2 has Radiant Vulnerability 5 and Fire Vulnerability 10.

We use AP and hit once with Burning Brand - the target takes (2d8+15)Fire and Radiant damage+fire vulnerability 10+radiant vulnerability 5 + Pelor's blessing  5. Now we use flurry, up to 3 targets take 7 untypeddamage (+10 more at level 16 from Radiant fist turning it into radiant). FoB activates the minor damage feature of Burning Brand, whuch does 4 Fire AND Radiant damage to the target and all enemies around it, which also procs both vulnrabilities for +20 extra. Then we proceed with Light the Fire - (2d8+15)Fire AND Radiant+fire vulnerability 10+radiant vulnerability 5 + Pelor's blessing 5. It gives us aura 1 that does 3 Fire AND Radiant to targets when they start their turn - and when that happens all take extra 20 damage from vulnerabilties.

Actually it will be more beneficial to start with Light the Fire and slide people around with FoB so th fire damage from Burning Brand hits as much targets as possible. So just reverse the above order of using powers.

So if both attacks hit (we have elven accuracy to help there) we're looking at 4d8+30+7+7+80 damage or about 142 damage. Not nearly 180, but good enough for 12 level Nova. This is against one target. Additional targets around the character will take 7 FoB + 3 Aura + 4 Bonus damage + 40 vulnerabilities or 54 damage.

Again this comes with Cleric leaderish support goodness and defender level AC and Reflex/Will. Thanks for the advice on Imporved Defenses, I ditched it. Deadly Draw and the Advantage feat are too good to pass on though I think. I can get Fiery Soul for +3 damage but I don't think it's worth it.

Other funny tricks you are able to pull off. Win initiative due to high Dex, then proceed with...

The 11 level encounter from Radiant Fist is great for intiation. You take an adjacent ally, hopefully a meaty defender teleport 9 into the face of the enemy with him, attack during the first round with CA, slide enemies hit around you and line them up in front of u for an Area Burst from the controller. Now the enemies must attack your 36 AC, attack the defender or try to move around you eating AoOs. They also have radinat Vulnerability 5. On next turn blow up the double vulnerability combo and watch them melt because Solar Enemy increases that vulnerability to 10.

I believe that's quite good for 12 level. Also included are defender level AC, solid NADs and great cleric support powers as a secondary leader.



Could you break down your damage sources for the example you have listed? Also, is Radiant Fist taken solely to gain Solar Enemy?
Yes, I took radiant one for that, the encounter power (which also bestows vulnerability) and the nice utility. Morninglord would probably be overall better for a 30lvl build.

The damage as listed:
Light the Fire 2d8+7 damage, in addition aura 1 that does cha+2=3 fire damage. SInce theaura is a  seperate instances of damage and originating from a fire power all tricks work on it - fire vulnerability, Pervesive Light and Pelor's Blessing

Pretty much the same with Burning Brand. it does 2d8+7  plus a seperate instance of Cha+3 fire damage the first time the target takes damage (immediately because of Flurry). Again it procs all tricks

Flury damage is obvious, Wis+2+Ki Weapon=9. Again seperate instance of fire power that triggers all tricks. Double flurry 1/day because of Level 2 utility.

Forgot to add the AP feature damage bonus Radiant Fist - 2 times of +5
Forgot to add the AP feature damage bonus Radiant Fist - 2 times of +5

It would be 4 times +5 (2 standard attacks and 2 flurries), but doesn't quite work... If you add radiant damage to the attacks, then you can't trigger Pervasive Light as extra damage, and only one vulnerability triggers.

It's also two minor actions to get the whole ball rolling. Quicksilver Motion seems like a must. I'd also probably ditch Deadly Draw for Superior Reflexes, and Superior Will instead of Improved Defenses. Fortitude can be patched later.

 
We use Body of Fire Ki focus to turn all damage (including flurry - it's an attack and also untyped damage)

This is not correct. Flurry of Blows doesn't have the implement keyword, thus it is not an attack made with the ki focus. You'd have to be Desert Wind or find some other way to get fire damage onto FoB.

I'm not sure some of these other radiant shenanigans are RAW either, but I'll leave that for those who know radiant stuff better than I.
This is not correct. Flurry of Blows doesn't have the implement keyword, thus it is not an attack made with the ki focus. You'd have to be Desert Wind or find some other way to get fire damage onto FoB.

I'm not sure some of these other radiant shenanigans are RAW either, but I'll leave that for those who know radiant stuff better than I.




Flurry of blows is an attack though right? It's not made with an implemnent but it is an attack?
Flurry of blows is an attack though right? It's not made with an implemnent but it is an attack?

I believe it's a "Class Feature" and not classified as an attack power. It's meant to stack on top of other attacks, while not being considered a seperate attack in and of itself, like any other striker feature such as Quarry or Sneak Attack (although the mechanics are obviously a bit different).

Edit: See below for a refutation to my statement.
Flurry of blows is an attack though right? It's not made with an implemnent but it is an attack?

I believe it's a "Class Feature" and not classified as an attack power. It's meant to stack on top of other attacks, while not being considered a seperate attack in and of itself, like any other striker feature such as Quarry or Sneak Attack (although the mechanics are obviously a bit different).



It's triggered by an attack and resolves on its own.  It has a target and deals damage.  It's an attack.
It's triggered by an attack and resolves on its own.  It has a target and deals damage.  It's an attack.

Is that right? I remember Wizards tried to define an attack at some point, but I can't find their definition in their FAQ. Right now I'm just looking at the Online Compendium (a sometimes dubious rules source, I know) and the glossary defines it as:

Attack
An attack roll and its effects, including any damage rolls. The word “attack” is sometimes used as shorthand for “attack power.” Some attack powers include multiple attacks, and some powers, such as magic missile, are designated as attacks yet lack attack rolls (using such a power counts as making an attack if the power has a target).

So the glossary isn't particularly helpful in this matter. But I do notice that when I search for the various Flurry of Blows powers, the are designated as "Monk Feature", and if then filter for only attack powers, Flurry gets filtered out.

I realize my methods are questionable and I'm happy to be proven wrong, but do you have a source?
As of Essentials, all powers are either attack powers or utility powers.  If it deals damage or hinders an enemy in any way, it's an attack power.  Check the Rules Compendium, p. 89-90.
As of Essentials, all powers are either attack powers or utility powers.  If it deals damage or hinders an enemy in any way, it's an attack power.  Check the Rules Compendium, p. 89-90.

Huh! So the paper Rules Compendium says there's only two power types, whereas the Online Compenium filters on three (four, if you count pact boons)? Goofy! Wizards is nothing if not consistent. ;)

Happy to take the paper Rules Compendium as the official source. Thanks for the reply!
if the debate is class feature vs. power it's illogical to say it is an attack power because all powers are either attack or utility, you are arguing past people

class features are mentioned on RC p86 but equating them all to 'powers' is a bit of a stretch, that said there are class features that are clearly attacks - abjure/turn undead for example. 


as to the specifics of the combo, the bonus damage from pelor's blessing (through solar enemy) works with flurry regardless because it says 'if you deal damage'
A lot of damage-dealing class features are also tacked onto another attack.  FoB is one of the only ones (that I can think of off-hand) that is explicitly a separate damage instance from the triggering attack.
if the debate is class feature vs. power it's illogical to say it is an attack power because all powers are either attack or utility, you are arguing past people

class features are mentioned on RC p86 but equating them all to 'powers' is a bit of a stretch, that said there are class features that are clearly attacks - abjure/turn undead for example. 



Thing is, flurry of blows isn't the class feature.  That's Monastic Tradition.  Flurry of blows is the power granted by it.  You can tell because its name is italicized and it gets its own entry in block format, see?

Now, class feature or not, flurry of blows is still a power and thus subject to the definition in the Rules Compendium.  An attack power is one that directly damages or hinders the enemy in some way; note the use of the word "directly," which means this definition doesn't apply to assassin's shroud or a power-ized Warlock's Curse, both of which use the "extra damage" verbiage.  A monk's flurry of blows does not:  It deals a separate instance of damage, with four out of five types having an additional kicker.

This is a rather important distinction, because this makes all instances of flurry of blows "melee attacks," making a good deal of monk support useful. Wink 
Still, it doesn't deal Fire via the ki focus because it's not an attack made with the ki focus, nor deal extra damage via Pervasive Light because it doesn't hit. Unless you're bajat, and then you lose because you don't have Thicket of Blades.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Still, it doesn't deal Fire via the ki focus because it's not an attack made with the ki focus, nor deal extra damage via Pervasive Light because it doesn't hit. Unless you're bajat, and then you lose because you don't have Thicket of Blades.




I see what you did there. Well played.
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You just killed the joke. Well done.
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This is not correct. Flurry of Blows doesn't have the implement keyword, thus it is not an attack made with the ki focus. You'd have to be Desert Wind or find some other way to get fire damage onto FoB.

I'm not sure some of these other radiant shenanigans are RAW either, but I'll leave that for those who know radiant stuff better than I.

Flurry of blows is an attack though right? It's not made with an implemnent but it is an attack?

Yeah sorry if my phrasing was confusing. It's certainly an attack. I just meant that the ki focus only changes damage for attacks made using the ki focus, and the ki focus is not used with FoB.
I'm salvaging this build with the help of the Crusader's Mace.

Behold, all our encounter powers that normally do fire damage now do Fire and Radiant, including the minor damaging auras. This removes the need of Pervasive Light feat.

FoB will start to proc Radiant vulnerabilities on it's own on level 16. Meanwhile the burst remains just as strong

Also as an added benefit Ki Expertise is replaced by Holy Symbol Expertise, which has a great defensive bonus.
Again... "Damage with this weapon" problem... right? 
Ours is a world where people don't know what they want, and are willing to go through hell to get it. -Don Marquis
Again... "Damage with this weapon" problem... right? 



Correct, flurry does not use the weapon you are wielding to make it's attack, it does not have the weapon keyword.  Anything that requires you to hit with the weapon, make a damage roll, etc are not things that work with FoB.
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He's getting Radiant Flurry from his PP
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Translation in english because it isn't clear enough: The only way to make Flurry do all of this stuff is to use Blistering Flourish or another source of extra damage that applies on damage, not damage rolls. So this combo sort of falls flat, big time.

(This is where you take Soaring Blade and salvage it with the power of '**** you, Imma add extra fire damage on everything 'cause that's how I roll', since the amount of damage you'll be adding will compensate anyways.)
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Ok, let me again explain because I guess I was not clear enough.

Light the Fire, BUrning Brand, Risen Sun, Immolating Fist (thinking about replacing this one though) are all fire monk powers. Each one of them does some damage on a hit and then does a seperate instance of small fire damage. With crusader's mace half of this fire damage is radiant. This means we proc both vulnerabilitis.

So it goes like this - we use Quicksilver motion to get into position. 2 minors for Solar enemy and Sarifal Blessing. Now everyone around me in Burst 2 has Radiant Vulnerability 5 and Fire Vulnerability 10.

We use AP and hit once with Burning Brand - the target takes (2d8+15)Fire and Radiant damage+fire vulnerability 10+radiant vulnerability 5 + Pelor's blessing  5. Now we use flurry, up to 3 targets take 7 untypeddamage (+10 more at level 16 from Radiant fist turning it into radiant). FoB activates the minor damage feature of Burning Brand, whuch does 4 Fire AND Radiant damage to the target and all enemies around it, which also procs both vulnrabilities for +20 extra. Then we proceed with Light the Fire - (2d8+15)Fire AND Radiant+fire vulnerability 10+radiant vulnerability 5 + Pelor's blessing 5. It gives us aura 1 that does 3 Fire AND Radiant to targets when they start their turn - and when that happens all take extra 20 damage from vulnerabilties.

Actually it will be more beneficial to start with Light the Fire and slide people around with FoB so th fire damage from Burning Brand hits as much targets as possible. So just reverse the above order of using powers.

So if both attacks hit (we have elven accuracy to help there) we're looking at 4d8+30+7+7+80 damage or about 142 damage. Not nearly 180, but good enough for 12 level Nova. This is against one target. Additional targets around the character will take 7 FoB + 3 Aura + 4 Bonus damage + 40 vulnerabilities or 54 damage.

Again this comes with Cleric leaderish support goodness and defender level AC and Reflex/Will. Thanks for the advice on Imporved Defenses, I ditched it. Deadly Draw and the Advantage feat are too good to pass on though I think. I can get Fiery Soul for +3 damage but I don't think it's worth it.

I will update my first post with the revised build
Do you actually need your Cleric half for anything, besides the religious flavor of setting enemies of your god on fire? Monk defenses are good enough that you don't need BCL. I guess you need the weapon proficiency for Crusader's Mace, but you can get that through multiclassing or the Gritty Sergeant background.
It gives useful powers for levels that monk suck at.
It also gives MBA in Sonnlinor's Hammer
BCL gives more defense then Unarmored Agility and doesnt cost a feat, at 12 level it's 36 AC vs target hit with a monk power.

Other then that - not really. If you want to pull it off as normal monk you are able to.
Other funny tricks you are able to pull off. Win initiative due to high Dex, then proceed with...

The 11 level encounter from Radiant Fist is great for intiation. You take an adjacent ally, hopefully a meaty defender teleport 9 into the face of the enemy with him, attack during the first round with CA, slide enemies hit around you and line them up in front of u for an Area Burst from the controller. Now the enemies must attack your 36 AC, attack the defender or try to move around you eating AoOs. They also have radinat Vulnerability 5. On next turn blow up the double vulnerability combo and watch them melt because Solar Enemy increases that vulnerability to 10.


Edited first post with final build.

PS: Do you think I can retrain Hybrid Talent to Fiery Blood or something else? The fort defense is abbysmal either way
You might take Fell Strike instead of Sonlinnors Hammer, but that depends on party makeup.  If you are going to get granted attacks from your leader then I would stick with sonnlinor's hammer since in my experience its rare for a monk to make an OA.

The only times I ever made a basic attack when I have played monks is when charging was the only option for the PC and fell strike is more useful in those cases since it prones instead of a weak charisma based rider.
We've got a warlord in the party. He's got a lot more improtant targets to grant MBA to (the executioner/warlock thread is my partner from the game) though.

I'm actually expecting the monsters to try and hit me, realise I am loaded with AC and then just ignore me and go for the other guys so i need some form of MBA to smack them and have them reconsider. I believe I got more AC then the main defender of the group, going as high as 36 against a target hit by me. I tookSonnlinor as alternative to Melee training more then anything else. Me doing Charge attacks is somewhat doubtful, but Sonnlinor covers that minus the proning part.
How does having an MBA allow you to punish people? You're in paragon, no monster is going to be shifting away from you.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Better then MBA with 9 Str for sure :D I got Radiant vulnerability going too so that's like 25 damage.
How does having an MBA allow you to punish people? You're in paragon, no monster is going to be shifting away from you.

Similarly, he's in paragon, so nitpicking his secondary at-will is also kind of silly. An MBA is a pretty solid choice, especially with a warlord in the party.
Can you stack vulnerabilities now? To the best of my knowledge they do not stack, you get to use the worst of the two but not stack them. The way around in the case of radiant vulnerability is Pervasive Light.

Pervasive Light- When you hit a target that has vulnerability to radiant damage with an attack that does not deal radiant damage, you deal extra damage equal to that vulnerability.
 
I decided to use Crusader's Mace. The property is "half of all damage you deal is radiant". This is not the same as a power having two keywords.

You deal 10 Fire and Radiant damage is not the same as Deal 5 fire and 5 Radiant damage. The vulnerability stacking rule seems to be a controversial one with people arguing on both side (I dug up some Customer Support ruling that they stack) but since the damage is halved between both types all should be good without getting drawn in the dispute.

Originally I went with Pervasive Light - but it has one major flаw and that is it requires a Power to HIT a target. Half of my damage comes from the aftereffect of those powers (minor fire damage auras) and Pervasive Light does not work on those.
I decided to use Crusader's Mace. The property is "half of all damage you deal is radiant". This is not the same as a power having two keywords.


Yes it is.  It is exactly the same as that.

What it is not is the damage being dual-typed.  Your power now does half original type, half radiant, not all original type and radiant.  Either way, though, it would have both the original type and radiant keywords, because that's how adding damage types to powers works.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
I decided to use Crusader's Mace. The property is "half of all damage you deal is radiant". This is not the same as a power having two keywords.


Yes it is.  It is exactly the same as that.

What it is not is the damage being dual-typed.  Your power now does half original type, half radiant, not all original type and radiant.  Either way, though, it would have both the original type and radiant keywords, because that's how adding damage types to powers works.



It's not quite like that. Dealing split damage has it's drawbacks as well as positives. Say, if a target had Fire Resist 10 he would take full damage from 10 Fire AND Radiant damage and only 5 damage from a 5 Fire and 5 Radiant damage attack. Yes, in general you do get both keywords attached to the power, but there is still the difference in the way you inflict that dual damage types.
The power gets both keywords regardless of whether it does two damage types, or one dual type.  This is what I was correcting, because you seemed to be saying it did not.

I'm well aware of how they interact with resists and vulnerabilities, but I didn't say anything about that.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Good then. Everything it still legit

Still open for suggestions what to trade Hybrid Talent for.
You've built this for level 12, right? Does the F16 of Radiant Fist really matter to you? Because instead of spending 2 feats on a bit more AC, you can also HT for Channel Divinity and take Solar Enemy to free up your PP so you can take Morninglord.
Well I didn't get Morninglord for 3 reasons:

1. My character is Pelor flavoured
2. Every single radiant vulnerable build out there uses it and it screams cheese,
3. At 12 level Radiant Fist is arguably better
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