Izzet flashback

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I decided to incorporate guttersnipe and talrand into a flashback deck, with a few izzet aspects like [C]Nivmagus Elemental[/C], which is really the only izzet thing besides the deck being U/R.  

Land
2 [C]Reliquary Tower[/C]
10 [C]Island[/C]
8 [C]Mountain[/C]

Creatures
4 [C]Guttersnipe[/C]
3 [C]Blistercoil Weird[/C]
2 [C]Nivmagus Elementa[/C]l
2 [C]Talrand, Sky Summoner[/C]

Other Spells
4 [C]Artful Dodge[/C]
4 [C]Think Twice[/C]
4 [C]Desperate Ravings[/C]
3 [C]Geistflame[/C]
4 [C]Burning Vengeance[/C]
2 [C]Increasing Confusion[/C]
2 [C]Secrets of the Dead[/C]
2 [C]Altar of the Lost[/C]
4 [C]Dream Twist[/C]


The idea behind the spells is to interact with blistercoil weird early on, and guttersnipe and talrand later.  The flashback is so that my spells can trigger them AGAIN along with burning vengeance and secrets of the dead.  the flashback is also great with Nivmagus Elemental because I can cast the spell, triggering the effects of guttersnipe and/or talrand and/or burning vengeance and/or secrets, then exile the spell to make him bigger.  

What should be added/removed?  Is 20 lands not enough even with a curve of 2.4?  Would [C]Charmbreaker Devils[/C] help in this deck (combo with [C]Artful Dodge[/C] maybe)?  I'm open to any and all suggestions except for [C]Faithless Looting[/C] because it results in loss of cards, not advantage.
you only have 15 flashback spells in the deck, but you're running not only a full playset of burning vengeance, but 2 secrets of the dead AND alter of the lost...

You're going to play many games with this deck and just draw too many snipes/ talrands/ burning vengeance/ secrets of the damned/ Alter of the lost, without actually drawing the instants and sorceries that let those cards DO anything.


Worse still, many of the instants and sorceries you're playing don't really do much. So they only become good cards when you have the cards mentioned about in play. (increasing confusion and dream twist are mill, which helps you in literally no way outside of a last ditch hope to win).



Goblin electromancer wants a home here. The card makes instants/sorceries 1 less to cast, including flashback costs.




Recommended changes for testing:  

-3 blistercoil weird
-4 dream twist
-2 increasing confusion
-2 alter of the lost
-2 burning vengeance
-1 secrets of the damned

+ 4 goblin electromancer
+ 2 snapcaster mage
+ 2 synchopate
+ 2 dissipate
+ 2 searing spear
 
I will gladly add goblin electromancer. However snapcaster mage can't go in, even though he's absolutely PERFECT, due to my low budget that i forgot to mention earlier.  There was a flaw in your earlier notion of me only having 15 flashback spells: I have 21, which means that about 1/3 of my draws will be a flashback spell. After testing it out, altar of the lost can probably go and be replaced by [C]Devil's Play[/C] to give me more spells with flashback. Other than that, I can't think of any other U/R flashback that would work in this deck.
If your focus is on flashback, then Faithless Looting isn't card disadvantage because it puts cards of your choosing into your second hand (the graveyard). Try it out.
I have a USA flashback deck I've been working on for a long time now, so I know a thing or two about how these decks play out.

Replace Dream Twist with Faithless Looting.  It may not be instant speed, but the option to choose what gets discarded is invaluable when you don't have a method of bringing back your primary win conditions, and it's not like you'll be using Dream Twist on your opponent to much if any effect. Also, when dealing with flashback, looting absolutely is card advantage, it is invaluable.

Replace Increasing Confusion with Devil's Play. While you can hit yourself with Increasing Confusion to fill your yard out a bit, Devil's Play can and will 1-2 punch your opponent to death, and it gives you more creature removal options, something this deck is currently lacking.

You'd probably be better off replacing the Altar of the Lost with some more land or Izzet Keyrunes. Altar really isn't that good, most of the time an extra land will do more, the keyrune is also better since it doesn't etb tapped, isnt limited only to flashback and if you can connect with the opponent the looting effect is useful.

I really don't like Artful Dodge here, none of your creatures really have enough oomph to make it worthwhile, I'd like to see more removal or counter spells. Even Silent Departure. Something to slow your opponent down.

Replace Reliquary Tower with Desolate lighthouse. You WANT to be discarding cards, if you have over 7 cards in hand that just means more flashback cards to your yard, taking away that ability does weaken the deck in the games it comes up.
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I have a USA flashback deck I've been working on for a long time now, so I know a thing or two about how these decks play out.

Replace Dream Twist with Faithless Looting.  It may not be instant speed, but the option to choose what gets discarded is invaluable when you don't have a method of bringing back your primary win conditions, and it's not like you'll be using Dream Twist on your opponent to much if any effect. Also, when dealing with flashback, looting absolutely is card advantage, it is invaluable.

Replace Increasing Confusion with Devil's Play. While you can hit yourself with Increasing Confusion to fill your yard out a bit, Devil's Play can and will 1-2 punch your opponent to death, and it gives you more creature removal options, something this deck is currently lacking.

You'd probably be better off replacing the Altar of the Lost with some more land or Izzet Keyrunes. Altar really isn't that good, most of the time an extra land will do more, the keyrune is also better since it doesn't etb tapped, isnt limited only to flashback and if you can connect with the opponent the looting effect is useful.

I really don't like Artful Dodge here, none of your creatures really have enough oomph to make it worthwhile, I'd like to see more removal or counter spells. Even Silent Departure. Something to slow your opponent down.

Replace Reliquary Tower with Desolate lighthouse. You WANT to be discarding cards, if you have over 7 cards in hand that just means more flashback cards to your yard, taking away that ability does weaken the deck in the games it comes up.



Using a majority of this advice, I've changed the deck slightly.

Land
12 [C]Island[/C]
10 [C]Mountain[/C]

Creatures
4 [C]Guttersnipe[/C]
2 [C]Nivmagus Elemental[/C]
2 [C]Talrand, Sky Summoner[/C]
2 [C]Goblin Electromancer[/C]

Other Spells
2 [C]Grasp of Phantoms[/C]
4 [C]Think Twice[/C]
4 [C]Desperate Ravings[/C]
2 [C]Geistflame[/C]
4 [C]Burning Vengeance[/C]
2 [C]Increasing Confusion[/C]
2 [C]Secrets of the Dead[/C]
Silent Departure
4 [C]Faithless Looting[/C]

10 creatures, 6 enchantmants, and a whopping 22 flashback spells, 6 of which deal with creatures. Increasing confusion will be replaced with [C]Devil's Play[/C] ASAP.  [C]Nivmagus Elemental[/C] may be taken out because i feel as though the ability of the card i'm flash-backing is more useful than 2 +1/+1 counters onto an easily removed creature.  I will also try to aquire [C]Desolate Lighthouse[/C].
Artful Dodge is primarily fuel for Guttersnipe, Talrand, Blistercoil and Nivmagus.
Then secondarily, Burning Vengeance and Secrets of the Dead.
Then, tertiarily -- it allows him to attack for the win for the actual effect of the card.

Faithless Looting is much safer than Desperate Ravings -- but Desperate Ravings is an Instant.
Faithless Looting is only bad when you have to discard something you can't replace.
Desperate Ravings is only good when you have nothing you can't replace.
Making them pretty darn even.

Cackling Counterpart is pretty awesome with Talrand and with Guttersnipe, doubling their potential for 3 mana -- from the hand.
Another reason to run Faithless Looting over Desperate Ravings, or split them 50/50.

===

Testing on MTGO right now, and I simply cannot for the life of me actually draw Guttersnipe.
I've been playing with 0 guttersnipes for about 3 games now -- running 4 of.
One of the games I got two guttersnipes and one mountain in my graveyard when digging 3 into my library, with three plain islands in play and really digging for it.

*Sigh*

Thanks to the lack of manaweaving, I feel the need to run 21 or 22 lands to actually hit my 3 drop by turn 7-8. 
Artful Dodge is primarily fuel for Guttersnipe, Talrand, Blistercoil and Nivmagus.
Then secondarily, Burning Vengeance and Secrets of the Dead.
Then, tertiarily -- it allows him to attack for the win for the actual effect of the card.

Faithless Looting is much safer than Desperate Ravings -- but Desperate Ravings is an Instant.
Faithless Looting is only bad when you have to discard something you can't replace.
Desperate Ravings is only good when you have nothing you can't replace.
Making them pretty darn even.

Cackling Counterpart is pretty awesome with Talrand and with Guttersnipe, doubling their potential for 3 mana -- from the hand.
Another reason to run Faithless Looting over Desperate Ravings, or split them 50/50.

===

Testing on MTGO right now, and I simply cannot for the life of me actually draw Guttersnipe.
I've been playing with 0 guttersnipes for about 3 games now -- running 4 of.
One of the games I got two guttersnipes and one mountain in my graveyard when digging 3 into my library, with three plain islands in play and really digging for it.

*Sigh*

Thanks to the lack of manaweaving, I feel the need to run 21 or 22 lands to actually hit my 3 drop by turn 7-8. 


You have a point about artful dodge, which was it's purpose in the beginning.  However, with cackling counterpart, it doesn't help talrand because he is a legendary creature.  Also, you might've been typing that while I posted, but I now have 22 lands in the deck and no more dream twist.
I find that I have an extremely, EXTREMELY bad matchup versus humans.
Unless I start with a geistflame AND a Searing Spear -- I'm most often toast by turn 4. 

I won the first round versus humans because he missed all his drops and because I had two burn spells in hand, and copied my guttersnipe with one of my two Cackling Counterparts.

I am glad I removed counterspells.
But I really miss Dissipate for when Augur of Bolas on their side reveals Sphinx's Revelations -- when they have 8 mana available in play by turn 5. 
I find that I have an extremely, EXTREMELY bad matchup versus humans.
Unless I start with a geistflame AND a Searing Spear -- I'm most often toast by turn 4. 

I won the first round versus humans because he missed all his drops and because I had two burn spells in hand, and copied my guttersnipe with one of my two Cackling Counterparts.

I am glad I removed counterspells.
But I really miss Dissipate for when Augur of Bolas on their side reveals Sphinx's Revelations -- when they have 8 mana available in play by turn 5. 


Are you suggesting that I maybe add searing spear into my sideboard? I still need to think about a sideboard so if anyone has suggestions, that'd be great.
bump...
 
double bump
 
your current version of the deck looks SUPER slow. Which would be fine, ecxept it lacks  any real (real meaning efficient) disruption.  You basically let the opponent do whatever they want, while winning in a much slower way then they do.



you're running 12 draw spells. Twelve. This is okay if your running a combo deck that goes off in one turn (oh, hey human reanimator, didn't see you there.), but since you aren't all you're doing is spending turns doing nothing. By the time you stabalize the opponent is already busy winning the game. Gonna be honest here, I really don't think there are enough good flashback spells in standard to make burning vengeance a thing, even if the format wasn't too darn fast for it.




changes to make:

switch nivmagus out for more goblin electromancer. 

 maybe add white? White gives you burning oil flashback and feeling of dread. Both of which are better than several of the flashback spells you're already running. Maybe even tinker with divine reckoning, since you'll normally only have one creature you care about protecting out anyway.




Other than that, I got nothin. Just not enough good flashback spells, man. 
Hmmmm never thought about adding white. I'll see what I have and post a new list later
I would highly recommend adding white, it gives you access to a lot of powerful spells. Burning Oil and Feeling of Dread for the flashback side of things. Supreme Verdict and/or Terminus for field wipes. Probably out of your budget range but Sphinx's Revelation is fantastic for stabalizing. My Burning Vengeance deck started out Izzet like yours but after having added white I've never looked back. I could post the decklist if you'd like, it's creatureless but it might point you in the right direction.

EDIT: Would probably help to mention that this is sage62 from earlier in the thread.
If you could post a decklist, that'd be fantastic
 
Well here is mine:

4xBurning Vengeance
1xAssemble the Legion

3xBurning Oil
4xDesperate Ravings
3xDissipate
3xFeeling of Dread
3xRewind
3xSearing Spear
2xSphinx's Revelation
4xThink Twice

1xDevil's Play
3xFaithless Looting
3xSupreme Verdict

1xDesolate Lighthouse
3xGhost Quarter
3xGlacial Fortress
4xHallowed Fountain
1xIsland
2xMountains
2xPlains
4xSteam Vents
3xSulfur Falls

Mine naturally has to be a bit more removal and counter heavy to make up for the lack of creatures (Assemble the Legion notwithstanding, which by the way I wouldn't recommend for your deck). Hope this helps in any way. Oh right, my current sideboard is:

3xGuttersnipe
3xOblivion Ring
3xCounter Flux
3xTibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
3xPillar of Flame

Which reminds me, Tibbles is only worth about 3$ but is fantastic against control decks, I would highly recommend trying him out as at least a sideboard option but you could try him main deck as well, he works well in these decks. The only real problem with that is aggro decks will eat him up as he has no way of defending himself.
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