understanding 706.10 ?

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again, tell me if i'm posting in the proper place or not.

so now that i'm trying to actually dig into the Comp Rules, i see a lot of stuff i don't understand. i'm thinking to pick a few instances of these and get help understanding them, in the hopes that the rest of the document will become clearer through doing so.


it's only the bolded part that i'm wondering about (i copy and past the rest just to give context) :

===

706. Copying Objects

706.10. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn’t cast and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”) Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability. A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself an ability.
===


the bolded sentence seems to be saying something like "The apple I control is controlled by me", which is pointless to say. so i'm probably missing something here, maybe something about a distinction between the controller of a spell/ability on the stack, and a spell/ability being put on the stack under some player's control.

could someone clarify this for me? thanks.
That part does seem somewhat redundant. I believe that sentence's intent is to clarify that if a player casts Reverberate targeting an opponent's Lightning Helix, the "you" for the copy refers to the controller of Reverberate.
Rules Advisor
buh... what?
but i don't see how this sentence makes it any clearer? ie, assuming you already knew that Lightning Helix is put on the stack under my control (ie if i'm the one who cast Reverberate), then isn't it obvious that the "you" in Lightning Helix refers to me? and if it wasn't obvious, how does this sentence make it any more clear?

anyways, thanks for letting me know that you think its redundant, too :-)



this brings up another question i keep on having when reading the Comp Rules.
a lot of the rules don't seem to encode themselves into my memory unless i see how those rules could be relevant at all. whenever there's a Rules Update Bulletin, there are explanations about comp rules changes and why they're put in. but when reading the comp rules alone, many rules seem to make me say "huh, i wonder why this rule is in here. i wonder if it's because of a certain corner case that i don't know of"; and without knowing that corner case, i can't remember that comp rule for the future.

so my question is, is there an annotated version of the Comp Rules? for example, it might look like this:

===

706.10b. A copy of an ability has the same source as the original ability. If the ability refers to its source by name, the copy refers to that same object and not to any other object with the same name. The copy is considered to be the same ability by effects that count how many times that ability has resolved during the turn.

(Annotation: Consider Soulbright Flamekin and Rings of Brightearth to see why this can matter.)

===

and

===
401.5. If a spell or ability causes a card to be drawn while another spell is being cast, the drawn card is kept face down until that spell becomes cast (see rule 601.2h). While face down, it's considered to have no characteristics. * The same is true with relation to another ability being activated.

* (Annotation: Consdier Chromantic Sphere and Elvish Spirit guide to see why this can matter, or see the Return to Ravnica Rules Update Bulletin)
===

I think its for Hive Mind

Each copy is put on the stack under the control of the player that puts it on, not the controller of the Hive Mind trigger.

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so my question is, is there an annotated version of the Comp Rules?


Some entries do have examples, particularly the more complicated ones. But I don't believe there's an annotated version of the Comprehensive Rules — at least, no official one.
the bolded sentence seems to be saying something like "The apple I control is controlled by me"

Not at all. It's saying something along the lines of "the apple is controlled by the controller of the effect that created it." But effects don't have controllers, so vaguer wording is used.





i ... still don't follow you. could you maybe give me an example to help me understand?



i'll let you know how i'm reading it. maybe you can show me what i'm doing wrong.
==
A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack.
==
if i wanted to rewrite this to say something exactly the same, i could say:
1. A copy of a spell or ability will be put onto the stack. It is put onto the stack under a certain player's control.
2. That player is the player who controls that spell or ability.

i still don't see the distinction between "a spell being put under the stack under a certain player's control" and "the controller of a spell"?


so my question is, is there an annotated version of the Comp Rules?

You might want to try the Rules Examples on the Judge Wiki

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@GoblinBasar: wow, that's /exactly/ what i'm needing...

... except it's WOEFULLY incomplete, to the point of not being helpful in most cases, lol.

but thanks for the suggestion anyways. it might help me maybe 5% of the time, in the off chance that the rule i'm looking for actually has an example posted!
This rule is better worded:

111.2. A spell’s owner is the same as the owner of the card that represents it, unless it’s a copy. In that case, the owner of the spell is the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A spell’s controller is, by default, the player who put it on the stack. Every spell has a controller.