Bounded Character Concepts in Next

While replying to the thread of a Next playtester unhappy with the lack of options for increasing accuracy, I realized that one of my friends preferred playstyles (super accurate character) is not really possible in Next. He loves to roleplay, most recently, as a bird Hengeyokai marksman... but when it comes to combat, he doesn't like to miss.

This reminded of the fact that MY preferred playstyle-- the guardian or destroyer who is not just hard to hit and resistant to damage, but capable of recovering during the battle, to a supernatural extent, from attacks that almost put him down (through self-healing). With the lack of regeneration (from class or race), and the difference between 4E healing surges and 5E hit dice, this type of concept seems unplayable in Next, so far.

I wonder if any options will be added to facilitate these playstyles in a Standard Game, and how many other combat playstyles just aren't possible so far in Next-- such as a facilitating/enabling Warlord-type.


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WHy can you not make a character that is very accurate.  There are ways to focus on getting advantage over getting damage.


With good ability scores and advantage, a character will almost never miss - at least not with the monster defenses the way they are now.

Toss in some magic (I know - not required - but also not forbidden) and you can pretty much guarantee a hit every round (unless you roll snake eyes on two d20s).


Carl     
WHy can you not make a character that is very accurate.  There are ways to focus on getting advantage over getting damage.


With good ability scores and advantage, a character will almost never miss - at least not with the monster defenses the way they are now.

Toss in some magic (I know - not required - but also not forbidden) and you can pretty much guarantee a hit every round (unless you roll snake eyes on two d20s).


Carl     



I refer you to this thread community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/... .

Apparently, Advantage is not that easy to get.
WHy can you not make a character that is very accurate.  There are ways to focus on getting advantage over getting damage.


With good ability scores and advantage, a character will almost never miss - at least not with the monster defenses the way they are now.

Toss in some magic (I know - not required - but also not forbidden) and you can pretty much guarantee a hit every round (unless you roll snake eyes on two d20s).


Carl     



I refer you to this thread community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/... .

Apparently, Advantage is not that easy to get.



It is if you build for it.  Maybe not always at first level - but then I don't buy into the idea that you should be able to hit a concept like "I never miss" at level 1 either.


But at level 1 you can have advantage on every attack with a bow (although with reduced damage - there has to be a cost) and at level 9 you can have advantage on every melee attack with no reduction in damage.


Carl
Barbarian gets advantage on all melee attacks whenever it feels like it from level 1, for whatever that's worth. No reduced damage either, you just also grant advantage.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
There is a very noticeable caveat to that Barbarian ability you're not representing.  Even so, I'm not sure I'm a fan of Reckless Attack in its current form (to clarify, I'm a huge fan of Advantage/Disadvantage, but I am very much NOT a huge fan of it being frequently assumed across a broad spectrum of rules, spells, features, etc. - for myself, I prefer it as an occasional DM tool).  It is the first version of the Barbarian though, so I'm sure there will be some alterations made with subsequent packets.

As to the OP, demanding an "I never miss" character is not much different than demanding an "I always kill things in one hit" or "I never succumb to mental dominance" characters.  I'll echo Carl's sentiment here; there are ways you can improve your character that make these things more likely, but picking a character concept that transcends (or at the very least, ignores) the random factor of dice in the system is a bit outside the scope of a game like D&D.
There is a very noticeable caveat to that Barbarian ability you're not representing.

What's that?

I'm a huge fan of Advantage/Disadvantage, but I am very much NOT a huge fan of it being frequently assumed across a broad spectrum of rules, spells, features, etc. - for myself, I prefer it as an occasional DM tool

Agreed.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!

A character that "never misses" isn't really a concept as such. That's just a dislike for missing.


A character that "never misses" as a consequence of concept is like a sniper person, which is someone who's trained and set himself up, like a sniper or somesuch. Those people will always prefer to engage on their own terms, which mechanically means they'll do their utmost to make sure they've got advantage. Since there are ways to make sure you get advantage a fair bit then there's no problem here.


I agree that we shouldn't lean too hard on advantage with regard to class abilities and feats, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have options for manipulating the mechanic and the option to make characters that lean on it are there.



The only trouble with any kind of "+ to hit" character option is they tend to overshadow every other option, since a modest sure thing is way better than a chance of something better.

While replying to the thread of a Next playtester unhappy with the lack of options for increasing accuracy, I realized that one of my friends preferred playstyles (super accurate character) is not really possible in Next. He loves to roleplay, most recently, as a bird Hengeyokai marksman... but when it comes to combat, he doesn't like to miss.




There's a point in the reduced To Hit values of Next you are missing.
Whatever you invest in accuracy makes MUCH more difference than before to describe your character as accurate.

Take those Weapon Focus feats of 3ed, for example, that gave you +1 on TH with a weapon.

At higher levels they are all but useless. When you have +13 Base To Hit (plus abilities and anything else), that +1 seems very unimportant.
In a system where your TH as a fighter goes from +1 to +5 only, however... that +1 is a good bonus at any moment, which makes it feel much more like "you invested in your character for him to be accurate."

What's that?



Gives you Advantage, but all attacks made against you also get Advantage.
What's that?

Gives you Advantage, but all attacks made against you also get Advantage.

I'm pretty sure I said that?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
What's that?

Gives you Advantage, but all attacks made against you also get Advantage.

I'm pretty sure I said that?



Momentous brain fart on my end, apparently.  That's what I get for posting before coffee; my apologies.

Momentous brain fart on my end, apparently.  That's what I get for posting before coffee; my apologies.

It's cool, happens to the best of us.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
He loves to roleplay, most recently, as a bird Hengeyokai marksman... but when it comes to combat, he doesn't like to miss.



This is the Sharpshooter specialty.  Sniper at 1st level makes him extremely accurate.  I utterly fail to see why he could possibly have any issues making his character.  (Well, other than bird-man part)

This reminded of the fact that MY preferred playstyle-- the guardian or destroyer who is not just hard to hit and resistant to damage, but capable of recovering during the battle, to a supernatural extent, from attacks that almost put him down (through self-healing).


This is either the barbarian rage or the fighter parry fluffed to be regeneration/self-healing.  Granted this is a bit more of a stretch, but perfectly feasible with the slim rules we currently have.

Wizards with magic missile ever miss.  Other spells do damage whether they hit or miss.
 

This is either the barbarian rage or the fighter parry fluffed to be regeneration/self-healing.  Granted this is a bit more of a stretch, but perfectly feasible with the slim rules we currently have.




I was actually thinking I can sort of, almost, create a facsimile of my werewolf that turns into metal (it's a long story) with the Barbarian-- especially if he could gain something like the Monk's Wholeness of Body and Way of the Fist... through multiclassing, or perhaps upcoming beasty Barbarian options.