## Simic +1 counters and wither

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Hello people, the problems are the following:

* Let's say I have a 2/2 creature. Then, my friend puts a -1/-1 counter on it (a counter that doesn't dissappear at the end of the turn, it remains), so now it is a 1/1 creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.
Then, I decide to put a +1/+1 counter the same creature... Is it now a 2/2 creature with a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter on it? or do the counters replace each other and turns out to be a normal 2/2 with no counters?

* Let's say my opponent has onto his battlefield Crumbling Ashes and Necroskitter. On the other side, my side, I got a Vorapede with a -1/-1 counter on it.
In his unkeep, Crumbling Ashes destoys my Vorapede. Does my Vorapede return to my battlefield with undying? Does it return to his battlefield with undying because of Necroskitter? :S

ty.
Joined Dec 2011
2410 Posts
1) For a very brief moment your creature will have both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter. Almost immediately after, state-based effects are checked and those counters will remove each other. However, if an effect puts enough -1/-1 counters on a creature to reduce its toughness to zero, the creature will die at the same time that the counters would normally remove each other, so any effects that care about a creature dying with one type of counter or the other will see that it had both kinds when it died.

2) If it is his upkeep, you will get your Vorapede back. Whenever multiple abilities trigger simultaneously, the active player puts his triggers on the stack first, then each other player in turn order does so. Since it's his turn, the undying trigger will resolve first and return Vorapede to the battlefield under your control. Then Necroskitter's trigger will resolve and fail to find the Vorapede in the graveyard, so it does nothing.
ikegami
Joined Dec 1969
Let's say I have a 2/2 creature. Then, my friend puts a -1/-1 counter on it (a counter that doesn't dissappear at the end of the turn, it remains), so now it is a 1/1 creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.
Then, I decide to put a +1/+1 counter the same creature... Is it now a 2/2 creature with a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter on it? or do the counters replace each other and turns out to be a normal 2/2 with no counters?

(What you refer to as a "counter that disappears at the end of the turn" is not a counter at all. Tragic Slip does not give counters; it creates a power and toughness changing continuous effect.)

It starts off with both counters, but just before the next time someone gets priority (is able to use abilities or cast spells), the counters will cancel out and be removed. This is specific to +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters.

Let's say my opponent has onto his battlefield Crumbling Ashes and Necroskitter. On the other side, my side, I got a Vorapede with a -1/-1 counter on it.
In his unkeep, Crumbling Ashes destoys my Vorapede. Does my Vorapede return to my battlefield with undying? Does it return to his battlefield with undying because of Necroskitter? :S

Two abilities trigger at the same time. The active player (AP) puts his ability (Necroskitter's) on the stack first, then the non-active player (NAP) puts his (Vorapede's Undying). Undying will resolve first, returning your Vorapede with a +1/+1. When Necroskitter's ability resolves, it won't do anything since it won't be able to find the card.

(Counters never disappear at the end of the turn.

Bounty of the Hunt disagrees.
There's no such thing as a counter that disappears at the end of the turn. There's also no difference between Simic +1/+1 counters and regular +1/+1 counters.

If a creature has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, they're both removed as a State-Based Action. If there are more than one of either (or both) types of counter, then N of each are removed, where N is the smaller of the two (ie: With 3 +1/+1s and 2 -1/-1s, two of each will be removed, leaving only one +1/+1)

In the case of your Vorapede example, Undying and the Necroskitter ability both trigger at the same time and are put on the stack in APNAP (Active Player, Non-Active Player) order. Since it's your opponent's turn, Necroskitter's ability goes on the stack first, followed by Undying. Undying then resolves first, returning Vorapede to the battlefield under your control. When Necroskitter's ability tries to resolve, it will fail to find Vorapede in the graveyard and fizzle.
ikegami
Joined Dec 1969
(Counters never disappear at the end of the turn.

Bounty of the Hunt disagrees.

Updated choice of word.