The New Druid Handbook

117 posts / 0 new
Last post
The New Druid Handbook

In a Few Easy Steps


Step 1: Choose the Invoker or Wizard Class


Step 2: Train in Nature


Step 3: Refluff


Step 4: Wear a fur coat to feel Primal


Success!

10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
What makes druids so awful, from Paragon and onwards? I missed the memo on them sucking so badly.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
What makes druids so awful, from Paragon and onwards? I missed the memo on them sucking so badly.

They aren't so bad anymore actually. Except Swarm. Just worse than Invokers/Wizards.
I prefer 1. Take thorn spray and predator's flurry. 2. Stop playing before paragon. 3. There is no 3.



1.5 Claw Gloves.

/Were theme?  No idea, dropped DDI, SLSM onset.

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

There is a 3. Be a wood elf.

Heroic druids are fine. You can do polearm daze-push-prone shenanigans at high heroic/early paragon, it's not too bad. They can stack up slightly better damage than invokers and non-genasi wizards. They have a few solid utilities, though not as encounter smashing as some of the other controllers (and fake controllers). Utilities would probably be my biggest gripe about them. Eagle's Splendor and the like are good, but they don't solve encounters like a gate or group teleport, or a mass fly.
This is a troll thread, knock it off.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I recall Writhing Henge was pretty amazing, since it was at minimum 'gib one standard a round' and more with damage opping if you cared for that, so it might not be control but it's so strong it doesn't matter. Do they really not have anything else of note? A quick check tells me World Warp is pretty OK (it's an offturn stun with no attack roll attached, single target though it may be), Swarming Bulwark is nice and possibly cheesable with forced movement shenanigans and otherwise yeesh, they have some bad dailies. Are they really that awful? Am I not missing something?

Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Swarm is very good.

When you hybrid serene runepriest.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.



I don't like this handbook.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Some of the options you list as red are clearly purple or even black. 
You don't split stats. Con/Wis, stay in beats form. You give up 1 encounter power (costly) and 1 at-will (irrelevent) and 1 daily (mabey, a daily heal could still be useful), and 1 feat, and gain resist + THP generation, some nice riders, and an encounter heal.

And at 23? there is a runepriest encounter without the weapon keyword, and useable in beast form. A pretty good one too. So you get the lost encounter power back.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

That just makes you less sucky. And what power are you talking about?
Ah, level 17. Not a controller power. And the build is still watered down. And my post still Stands

Also, none of you can take a joke. Good work. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Are there any plans on covering a Vampire trained in dungeoneering variant?
Its a bit of a corner case, but if theres call for that I will write it up.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
/me gusta :D

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/14.jpg)

That just makes you less sucky. And what power are you talking about?
Ah, level 17. Not a controller power. And the build is still watered down. And my post still Stands

Also, none of you can take a joke. Good work. 

Who said anything about a controller?  You're a tank.  Also, the dominate and blind blasts are good enough.

Take the immobilizeing at-will feat, perhaps a Warpriest PP.
Or grab beast gloves and the charge package.
Mabey grab the impliment/spear and do polearm stuff.

If you go half-elf, you can pick up a different at-will.  Booming blade + WLMR makes a nasty catch-22 (or broken, depending on the reading).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Tank is neither a role in this game nor a useful thing to be. But more to the point, anyone who would EVER suggest being a druid¦runepriest to use, of all things, booming blade is either trolling or stupid, so yeah, I'm basically disregarding everything you say from here on. Congratulations on ruining your credibility.

Booming blade + WLMR + mark of storms + staggering glaive works just fine.

That said, it's a weapon attack, so it's a no go.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Charm Beast too.  There are some very solid encounter powers in Heroic.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
So I was thinking, if the consensus is that druids suck, in which ways could they be fixed? Do houserules open up options that are less radical than the ones described in the op?
Tank is neither a role in this game nor a useful thing to be. But more to the point, anyone who would EVER suggest being a druid¦runepriest to use, of all things, booming blade is either trolling or stupid, so yeah, I'm basically disregarding everything you say from here on. Congratulations on ruining your credibility.

Booming blade + WLMR + mark of storms + staggering glaive works just fine.

That said, it's a weapon attack, so it's a no go.

Weretheme.
Tank is neither a role in this game nor a useful thing to be. But more to the point, anyone who would EVER suggest being a druid¦runepriest to use, of all things, booming blade is either trolling or stupid, so yeah, I'm basically disregarding everything you say from here on. Congratulations on ruining your credibility.

Booming blade + WLMR + mark of storms + staggering glaive works just fine.

That said, it's a weapon attack, so it's a no go.

Weretheme.

Hmm...

To bad i don't have the builder anymore, else i would build that out.  Probably going blighted beast for damage.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

So I was thinking, if the consensus is that druids suck, in which ways could they be fixed? Do houserules open up options that are less radical than the ones described in the op?



'give them better powers, nerf the Wizard and Invoker' just about covers it.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Even Psions and Seekers are better controllers.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
You lost me there ;) I mean, single target encounter dominate isn't exactly changing the world, but... Seekers!?
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
I've seen 3 of their dailies change combats. I also really like their e7 and e13. The coupling of solid control at-wills (Tidal Shot is awesome, thanks Cazz), some solid encounter powers, are a couple of great dailies, they surpass the druid. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I don't say good things about Seekers all that much, but Feyjump Shot is pretty hilarious (worth hybriding or MC), when you get a dazed artilery panicking next to a knight and a ranger, while a dazed soldier stands sheepishly on a distant balcony.
I've seen 3 of their dailies change combats. I also really like their e7 and e13. The coupling of solid control at-wills (Tidal Shot is awesome, thanks Cazz), some solid encounter powers, are a couple of great dailies, they surpass the druid. 


You just need to play with better Druids, because you're wrong like Armisael here.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I've seen 3 of their dailies change combats. I also really like their e7 and e13. The coupling of solid control at-wills (Tidal Shot is awesome, thanks Cazz), some solid encounter powers, are a couple of great dailies, they surpass the druid. 


Magic Stones > Tidal Spirit Shot in most cases.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Sure, druid at-wills are great, but I still think overall Seekers squeak out a win against them after later heroic.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Two to three encounter dominates and probably the game's most useful summons?

They're not wizard tier, sure, and they play very different from a standard controller, but they're definitely competent at it.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Wizard RAVAGES the druid at summons.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Wizard RAVAGES the druid at summons.



I've seen this touted before, but why exactly? The Druid summons get instinctive actions for free attacks/effects and at Epic can command them with a minor (or multiple minors per round iirc). What exactly do the Wiz summons have that beat that?
The same in general, but meaningful things.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'm overwhelmed by the insight.
The minor action feat is only really good if you use a broken interpretation. As for the rest: well, Wizard summons have instinctive actions now (or the equivalent) and their's are better. Add in feat support, better PPs for it, class features, etc., and the Druid is left with... Writhing Henge. One Epic summon. That oh, by the way, it has no way of recycling, whereas a Wizard is looking at 7+ summons per day, all of which are very good, some of which destroy encounters all by themselves.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you. Out of curiosity, what is the broken interpretation of PSE?
When did D&D become about power-builds rather than roleplaying? Have you considered that it might be more fun to spend less time worrying about how you can abuse the rule framework and more time on being imaginative? I think the direction D&D has taken has basically destroyed the core of the game. The object is not to become as powerful as possible, to win, to be better than everyone else, etc. The point is to have fun and let your creativity loose. If the rules don't suit you, then bend them, or ignore them altogether. Nobody is going to fault you for it. And if they do, they're missing the point, too. But, that's just 2 cents from a guy who hasn't played in a decade and a half, so what do I know?
Anyone is free to play the game as they choose, but these are the optimization boards... it's kind of the point around here.
When did D&D become about power-builds rather than roleplaying? Have you considered that it might be more fun to spend less time worrying about how you can abuse the rule framework and more time on being imaginative? I think the direction D&D has taken has basically destroyed the core of the game. The object is not to become as powerful as possible, to win, to be better than everyone else, etc. The point is to have fun and let your creativity loose. If the rules don't suit you, then bend them, or ignore them altogether. Nobody is going to fault you for it. And if they do, they're missing the point, too. But, that's just 2 cents from a guy who hasn't played in a decade and a half, so what do I know?



We're occupying ourselves here with the mechanical workings, but if you read the threads, lots of references are made to reflavoring options, changing descriptions, and generally using your imagination while staying within the mechanical rules.

To say that we all share the same goal is a gross generalisation. For me, it's about being as mechanically competent as I can get my character to be, while I will use my imagination in my own time (not on the forum).

That combination for me, and I suspect for many others, creates my fun, and lets my creativity loose. 


4e is a relatively balanced game, and we attempt to advice anyone for any table. As such, rules as written can be our only standard. Aside of the fact that ignoring certain basic rules brings an inherent imbalance to the game, there is no telling how a DM we've never met, at the other side of the world, might rule in certain situations.   
When did D&D become about power-builds rather than roleplaying? Have you considered that it might be more fun to spend less time worrying about how you can abuse the rule framework and more time on being imaginative? I think the direction D&D has taken has basically destroyed the core of the game. The object is not to become as powerful as possible, to win, to be better than everyone else, etc. The point is to have fun and let your creativity loose. If the rules don't suit you, then bend them, or ignore them altogether. Nobody is going to fault you for it. And if they do, they're missing the point, too. But, that's just 2 cents from a guy who hasn't played in a decade and a half, so what do I know?



Hi, welcome to the Fourth Edition Character Optimization Board.

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

The minor action feat is only really good if you use a broken interpretation. As for the rest: well, Wizard summons have instinctive actions now (or the equivalent) and their's are better. Add in feat support, better PPs for it, class features, etc., and the Druid is left with... Writhing Henge. One Epic summon. That oh, by the way, it has no way of recycling, whereas a Wizard is looking at 7+ summons per day, all of which are very good, some of which destroy encounters all by themselves.



Untrue. As I recall, there's a feat to get a daily back 1/day if you get bloodied. Not that much, but it's there nonetheless.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).