Scapeshift and Valakut - Simultaneous enterting the battlefield

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Hi Rules,

I'm trying to figure out how this Modern Scapeshift deck works.

Whats the critical mass of lands I need in order to trigger the valakut damage.

Here is the example:

I have 7 lands in play (no valakut). I cast Scapeshift.  I search for 2 Valakut, the molten pinnacle and 5 mountains. All these permanents enter into the battlefield at the same time. They "see" eachother. Will Valakut trigger the damage from the 5 mountains?

The other example is the same 7 lands, and I cast Scapeshift and search for 1 vakalut and 6 mountains. Same question as above?

The last question is, my opponent has a Ghost Quarter. Is there a way he can bust up the combo somehow mid scapeshift?


Thanks so much for helping me figure this out!


edited for card tags for people who may not know what these cards do. Edited to correct the question.
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
I have 7 lands in play (no valakut). I cast Scapeshift.  I search for 2 Valakuts and 5 mountains. All these permanents enter into the battlefield at the same time. They "see" eachother. Can I trigger the damage on valakut for this?

Well, you won't trigger the Valakuts but yes, they will trigger. Same for the 6-of question.

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

The last question is, my opponent has a Ghost Quarter. Is there a way he can bust up the combo somehow mid scapeshift?

Not easily: you could always fetch another Mountain from Ghost's effect.

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

I have 7 lands in play (no valakut). I cast Scapeshift.  I search for 2 Valakuts and 5 mountains. All these permanents enter into the battlefield at the same time. They "see" eachother. Can I trigger the damage on valakut for this?

Well, you won't trigger the Valakuts but yes, they will trigger.



Thanks, I've edited the post to correct the question. Yes I know I am not the one doing the triggering.


For the Ghost Quarter part of the question, using the example of 7 lands.

If I scapeshift saccing 7 lands, finding 2 Valakut, the molten pinnacle and 5 mountain. Is there a way my opponent can use Ghost Quarter to break up the combo and/or effects or reduce the incoming damage to him? (assuming I am pointing the damage from valakut to him)

(edited for card tag on mountain in case we needed to know what that was.)
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
The last question is, my opponent has a Ghost Quarter. Is there a way he can bust up the combo somehow mid scapeshift?

Not easily: you could always fetch another Mountain from Ghost's effect.




So the 2 Valakut's and the 5 Mountains enter the battlefield. Both Valakut's trigger on each mountain entering, He tries to Ghost Quarter a Valakut. But the triggers are already on the stack? And I find another mountain, which triggers the remaining valakut once?

According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
Wait, I don't follow why people are saying 'yes' to the first question.

 Valakut says "Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains..."

Each mountain only sees four other mountains (it doesn't count itself, because itself is not an other mountain).  The scenario as I see described (2 Valakuts + 5 mountains) results in no Valakut triggers.

Now, if there were six mountains, each mountain would trigger because it would see five other mountains. 
If you bring in exactly enough mountains to trigger Valakut, your opponent might try to interrupt the combo by destroying a mountain with Ghost Quarter to mess up the requirement. In order for this to work, you'd have to either be completely out mountains in your deck, or cooperate with the guy and fetch something that isn't a mountain.

He could use Strip Mine to successfully lessen the effect. In this case, the second check would fail for all but the destroyed mountain. If you found 2x Valakut and 6x Mountain (but one was destroyed), that'd mean your opponent takes 6 damage.

@Enigma, below: Edited for clarity.
I have 7 lands in play (no valakut). I cast Scapeshift.  I search for 2 Valakut, the molten pinnacle and 5 mountains. All these permanents enter into the battlefield at the same time. They "see" eachother. Will Valakut trigger the damage from the five mountains?

no, because although each mountain enters and sees the other mountains, each mountain does not see five other mountains so the intervening if clause is false and nothing happens
The other example is the same 7 lands, and I cast Scapeshift and search for 1 vakalut and 6 mountains. Same question as above?

this will trigger the Valakut six times because each of the six mountains sees the other five mountains
The last question is, my opponent has a Ghost Quarter. Is there a way he can bust up the combo somehow mid scapeshift?

no, because all the lands are put on the field during the resolution of Scapeshift and no one has priority at that point.
if you already had a Valakut on the field, he could respond to your Scapeshift and kill it to save himself from some triggers, but he can't do anything about it if you put Valakuts on the field during Scapeshift's resolution.

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If you found 2x Valakut and 6x Mountain, that'd mean your opponent takes 6 damage.

36 damage, actually

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I have 7 lands in play (no valakut). I cast Scapeshift.  I search for 2 Valakut, the molten pinnacle and 5 mountains. All these permanents enter into the battlefield at the same time. They "see" eachother. Will Valakut trigger the damage from the five mountains?

no, because although each mountain enters and sees the other mountains, each mountain does not see five other mountains so the intervening if clause is false and nothing happens



Thanks very much for this much clearer explanation. This puts the 'critical mass' I'm looking for to be 6 mountains correct? Making each mountain 'sees' 5 other mountains and therefore triggering any number of valakuts (which can also enter at the same time from the same scapeshift or have previously been on the field) to deal damage.

The other example is the same 7 lands, and I cast Scapeshift and search for 1 vakalut and 6 mountains. Same question as above?

this will trigger the Valakut six times because each of the six mountains sees the other five mountains



So by that understanding a modern scapeshift deck, say this one, is to get 8 lands in play and then scapeshift. Find 2 valakut's and 6 mountains. Dealing 36 damage total.

Thanks for helping me understand the mechanics behind this, I haven't seen this deck played live so I was unaware of what the specific conditions are required to win. My friend and I are building up a guantlet of the popular modern decks so we needed to be sure on what it takes for this deck to win.
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
He could use Strip Mine to successfully lessen the effect.



In which case, your Modern Scapeshift deck got a much easier wincon - disqualification.

Substitute Rain of Rust or Lavaball Trap into the conversation at will, though.  Or the tricksier Shifting Borders.
I'm being nitpicked to death today. But yes, thank you for the correction -- I had overlooked that it was a modern deck.
note: he could use Ghost Quarter in response to the Valakut triggers after Scapeshift resolves to destroy a mountain and thereby make the if clauses false on resolution (though that assumes you don't have any more mountains in your library - if you do though, Ghost Quarter would let you put another mountain on to replace the destroyed one and trigger Valakut again, actually making it worse for him)

though some other destroy effect could thwart the triggers if he is able to bring the number of mountains down to five or less 

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DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
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Things that enter the battlefield at the same time as a resolution of another thing all see each other. Things that change the type of things see them as whatever new type they are.

You could do it with a prismatic omen, 4 valakuts, and 2 mountains. You need a total of 6 land since it says "other land" though the valakuts will see each other as mountains. At max minimum (all 4 valakuts, earliest possible activation) you would see 5 other mountains from four valakuts for 20 triggers or 60 damage.

It is normal to run land accelleration in early turns and to be aiming for a 4th or 5th turn scapeshift. This is not particularly fast for a combo deck being more or less average speed for a combo deck. (vintage painter/grindstone can mill for 60 on the first turn with a perfect draw, while storm aims for turn 2 or 3)
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each of the six "mountains" (2x Mountain + 4x Valakut) enters simultaneously and all 4 Valukuts will trigger for each mountain entering a total of 24 triggers (not 20)

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 Valakut says "Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains..."

Each mountain only sees four other mountains (it doesn't count itself, because itself is not an other mountain).  The scenario as I see described (2 Valakuts + 5 mountains) results in no Valakut triggers.

Agkh! Foiled again by that «five OTHER Mountains»! Guess I should actually start reading the f... card!

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

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