Weapons - Whip, Nun Chuku and Shuri-ken

With some weapons you envision them being used in certain ways.

So I thought Spiked Chain and Whip could have a Trip ability.

Trying to keep it simple like If you hit, they make a Dex DC 10 save to avoid being tripped over, with the Prone condition. (seems more generous than restrained)

They can use Str check DC 15 to break out just like Bolas.


Also, has anyone done any rules for Nun chucku or Shuri-ken?

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

*nunchaku

I do hope they add all the Monk weapons (kama, sai, nunchaku, sansetsukon, meteor hammer, rope dart, all that fun stuff).

And I agree that the spiked chain and the whip should have a trip ability, even if it means raising spiked chain back to an exotic weapon.
borrowing some stuff from 3.5 i've whipped this up -


Spiked Chain and Whip : If you hit, they make a Dex DC 10 save to avoid being tripped over, with the Prone condition. They can use Str check DC 15 to break out just like Bolas.


- Simple Weapons (Monks can use all 3, Wizards can use Staff Slings)

Nunchaku      2 gp   1d6                  --           2 lb.     Bludgeoning      Light, Finesse
Shuriken (5)  1 gp   1d4                  Range 20 ft  1/2 lb    Piercing         Finesse
Staff Sling   1 gp   D4 Missle, D6 Melee  Range 30ft   4lb       Bludgeoning      Two Handed

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

I like it, except maybe more range on the shuriken. A regular dagger can be thrown 30 feet in this packet, after all.
Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.
Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.



Bingo.
Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.



Not bingo. The spiked chain is a unique and wonderful weapon if you've ever played a Fighter that specializes in it. I for one want more than four weapons in the book.
I'd rather not have to waste resources on things like Exotic Weapon Prof. to use things like a bastardsword or spiked chain. But I wouldnt mind a strong mechanical element with weapons right now.
Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.



Actually I'd have to think nunchuku are finesse flails.

There damage would be based on whether it is martial weaponry or some superior/exotic group.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.



Actually I'd have to think nunchuku are finesse flails.

There damage would be based on whether it is martial weaponry or some superior/exotic group.



What makes it different from a regular flail that would cause it to be wielded with improved finesse?
Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.



Actually I'd have to think nunchuku are finesse flails.

There damage would be based on whether it is martial weaponry or some superior/exotic group.



What makes it different from a regular flail that would cause it to be wielded with improved finesse?



Have you ever even seen someone wield nunchaku?
Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.



Actually I'd have to think nunchuku are finesse flails.

There damage would be based on whether it is martial weaponry or some superior/exotic group.



What makes it different from a regular flail that would cause it to be wielded with improved finesse?



Have you ever even seen someone wield nunchaku?



I knew someone would go there and justify it on the basis of, "Because... ninja."


Other than its Far East mystique, there is very little structurally that differentiates nunchaku from a regular light flail.  
Why do we need specialized rules for those? The are just romanticized versions of the flail and throwing knife.



Actually I'd have to think nunchuku are finesse flails.

There damage would be based on whether it is martial weaponry or some superior/exotic group.



What makes it different from a regular flail that would cause it to be wielded with improved finesse?



Have you ever even seen someone wield nunchaku?



I knew someone would go there and justify it on the basis of, "Because... ninja."


Other than its Far East mystique, there is very little structurally that differentiates nunchaku from a regular light flail.  



How is this statement even remotely true? Their only commonality is that they involve two things tied together. If you're going to give them the same mechanics, then they should both be finnesse weapons at least. Strength has nothing to do with nunchaku.
Both the nunchaku and flail are weaponized adaptations of the threshing flail, a farm implement. At their core, they're both just a pair of stout rods connected by a flexible join. Some might be more stylized than that, but both weapons are similar enough that there is little point in differentiating them.


Another question is raised here: do we really need a finesse version of every weapon? To keep my answer simple, I'd just say no.  
Both the nunchaku and flail are weaponized adaptations of the threshing flail, a farm implement. At their core, they're both just a pair of stout rods connected by a flexible join. Some might be more stylized than that, but both weapons are similar enough that there is little point in differentiating them.


Another question is raised here: do we really need a finesse version of every weapon? To keep my answer simple, I'd just say no.  



Like I said, their only comonality is their structure. Their use is completely different. Nunchaku are perfectly balanced while a flail has a clear light and heavy end, making it impossible to do the kinds of things you can do with nunchaku (switch hands, move it around your body, etc). Nunchaku in combat are always in motion, a defensive weapon to keep other weapons at bay because the nunchaku are moving so fast and the wielder is so unpredictable, and to deliver very fast blows when they do strike. This quality of them comes entirely from the wielder's dexterity. A person of exceptional strength is no better with the weapon than a person of average strength. A flail (the western medieval version iconic to D&D, not the eastern weapon which is still fundamentally different from the nunchaku), is not always in motion, that would be exhausting, it's heavier and not balanced. Its function is to get around an enemy's defenses, such as striking them from behind their shield. Its purpose is versatility to bypass defenses and power from its weight and the wielder's strength. They have the same origin and basic structure, but are fundamentally different weapons.

And what is the problem with having a longer, more interesting list of weapons? There are hundreds of different spells, why can't we have more than fifteen weapons?
- Completely agree with Lord_Kyrion's notes on Nunchuku vs Flail.

As for lists of weapons, happy to have basic weapon list for the game, then a module for the full range of weapons with special conditions like trip, reach etc.

Basic could be long sword, short sword, two handed sword, short bow, long bow, light crossbow, heavy crossbow, staff, dagger, spear.

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

- Completely agree with Lord_Kyrion's notes on Nunchuku vs Flail.

As for lists of weapons, happy to have basic weapon list for the game, then a module for the full range of weapons with special conditions like trip, reach etc.

Basic could be long sword, short sword, two handed sword, short bow, long bow, light crossbow, heavy crossbow, staff, dagger, spear.



Agreed, it would be okay to have the wider weapons options as a module. Basic set should include a mace too for bludgeoning. At least one one-handed and two-handed weapon for each damage type.
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