trigger policy history?

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my friend has been saying that they changed the "forgetting your own triggers" policies something like 3 or 4 times. can anyone point me to:
- a place that has the most recent policies, for all RELs,
- a place that tells me all the different changes (ie each time they changed the policy) and the reasoning behind each change?
Over the past year or two, the trigger rules have indeed been changed a few times. The current rules can be found here, with the rules for Competitive and Professional being in the Infraction Procedure Guide section 2.1. The rules for regular REL are loosely found in the Judging at Regular REL guidelines and basically boil down to "both players are responsible for remembering triggers".

This reddit post has a quite good explanation of the history of the changes and their motivation. It won't give you the nitty-gritty details of each step along the way, but it does describe the major features of each of the changes.
thanks cyphern, i'll take a look.

a few weeks ago, some people at FNM insisted that if i miss my mandatory triggers, then too bad for me and that my opponent is not obliged to help maintain proper game state. i wanted to protest "but are you sure at this REL?" but i knew that the rules kept changing, so i kept my mouth shut. [one of the unhappy things about both LGSs that i know of in my city, is that neither has an official judge there... and one doesn't even seem to have someone with Rules Advisor level credentials half the time, either! or at least, they don't advertise who the official judges are supposed to be.]
a few weeks ago, some people at FNM insisted that if i miss my mandatory triggers, then too bad for me and that my opponent is not obliged to help maintain proper game state.

At FNM, which is regular REL, they are wrong. The new trigger rules only apply to competitive and professional REL.
thanks cyphern, i'll take a look.

a few weeks ago, some people at FNM insisted that if i miss my mandatory triggers, then too bad for me and that my opponent is not obliged to help maintain proper game state. i wanted to protest "but are you sure at this REL?" but i knew that the rules kept changing, so i kept my mouth shut. [one of the unhappy things about both LGSs that i know of in my city, is that neither has an official judge there... and one doesn't even seem to have someone with Rules Advisor level credentials half the time, either! or at least, they don't advertise who the official judges are supposed to be.]



The trigger rules for regular REL haven't changed, those are the same as they've been.  The only changes that have occured recently is the trigger policy for competitive and professional REL.  So you have been told wrong, your opponent is responsible for informing you of your missed manditory triggers at reg REL and if caught in time those triggers should be put on the stack.

DCI Level 2 Judge

Rockford, Illinois

i'm looking at the Missed Trigger Update posted recently on dailymtg, and it says:
===
At Regular REL, there are really only two "rules." You aren't allowed to miss your own triggered abilities, and your opponent isn't required to remind you about them.
===
(www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.a...)


this seems to contradict the following post posted above (and what i thought was true, for what it's worth)
===
So you have been told wrong, your opponent is responsible for informing you of your missed manditory triggers at reg REL and if caught in time those triggers should be put on the stack.
===



is the latter quotation false, now, or are they somehow both true and i'm just not seeing how this is not a contradiction?
the post above is now outdated, since they changed it
so go with the article from Matt
proud member of the 2011 community team
the post above is now outdated, since they changed it
so go with the article from Matt


So now we can let our opponents forget mandatory triggers at FNM? Thats not really "newby friendly", is it?

~ Tim   

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
the post above is now outdated, since they changed it
so go with the article from Matt


So now we can let our opponents forget mandatory triggers at FNM? Thats not really "newby friendly", is it?

~ Tim   





that's exactly what i'm thinking.

when i started this thread, i said that someone at FNM insisted that it was up to me to remind him every time my Soul Tithe triggered, else he could (full well knowing about my Soul Tithe) continue on to his main phase. somehow this feels against the spirit of FNM; i go to play FNM to have fun with others, not to have a cutthroat competition of skill where part of that means using whatever loopholes in the tournament rules you can to your advantage!
the post above is now outdated, since they changed it
so go with the article from Matt




but my confusion is that Matt Tabak's recent article didn't give any impression that this was a /change/.

can anyone post (or link) for me where in the [older] tournament rules it said that in Regular RELs, you're not responsible for pointing out your opponent's mandatory triggers?
here is the full quote, you cut it off when he started talking about change ;)

At Regular REL, there are really only two "rules." You aren't allowed to miss your own triggered abilities, and your opponent isn't required to remind you about them. The second one is a change that was put in at higher RELs a few months ago.
proud member of the 2011 community team
the post above is now outdated, since they changed it
so go with the article from Matt


So now we can let our opponents forget mandatory triggers at FNM? Thats not really "newby friendly", is it?

~ Tim   




Yes the policy just changed on that.  Players are no longer required to inform their opponents about their missed triggers at regular REL.  Do note that if a trigger is missed the 'fix' is still the same.  If not too much time has passed (a turn or so) they still can put it on the stack.  Unlike competitive REL you don't ask the opponent if they want the trigger to be put on the stack

DCI Level 2 Judge

Rockford, Illinois

===
Yes the policy just changed on that.
===
i'm not too happy about this. sigh!

but i kind of wish that tabak's article made it more clear that this *was* a change.

btw, how do you know that this was a change? is it because you knew what the rule was before, and now tabak's article says differently? or is there some place on the internet that you keep up with (other than the Rules Updates Bulletins), where the Rules People discuss these changes?
Yes the policy just changed on that.

 
I read it earlier in full, but that bit didnt click. They needed to make a bigger fuss about that part.

Do note that if a trigger is missed the 'fix' is still the same.  If not too much time has passed (a turn or so) they still can put it on the stack.  Unlike competitive REL you don't ask the opponent if they want the trigger to be put on the stack


Right, but if they dont remember at all, we get away with ignoring something that is supposed to have happened. :/

~ Tim   

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
here is the full quote, you cut it off when he started talking about change ;)

At Regular REL, there are really only two "rules." You aren't allowed to miss your own triggered abilities, and your opponent isn't required to remind you about them. The second one is a change that was put in at higher RELs a few months ago.




oh, my mistake. in my posts i was saying that tabak didn't make it clear that this was a change to Regular RELs (including FNM).
my reading comprehension could use some work. i read "higher RELs" in that sentence and immediately dismissed that sentence as irrelevant to Regular RELs :-)

okay, thanks. (note to self: read things more carefully!)
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