Should magic 2014 be a refresh of the core set like 10th edition?

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I like the concept of a very large core set like 10th edition, but don't want to shell out the money for one of those booster boxes. Its a double question:

1. Do you think its time for a refreshed core set? M13 is really M10/M11/M12ish. By that I mean new artwork and more new cards, maybe bring back as reprints modern cards to complement Modern Masters.....new stuff.
2. Do you want a larger core set?

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No, M11 was the best core set by far, so let's leave it like that.

and...

No, bigger sets (especially core sets) usually tend to have a few more gems than normal, but they have significantly more garbage along with that.
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Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
Since M14 is the 20th anniversary of magic, to show this, they should change all the functional reprints back to before M10.

For example, instead of Runeclaw Bears, it would be Grizzly Bears.

Instead of Disentomb, it would be Raise Dead.
Nah Nah Nah... Nah Nah Nah... SPORTSCENTER... THE PLACE FOR SPORTS
Or how about old borders?!?!?!
Or how about old borders?!?!?!

no!
proud member of the 2011 community team
Future sight borders!

And I don't really understand the OP's question other than size. We already get different sets of cards in different core sets.
Future sight borders!

And I don't really understand the OP's question other than size. We already get different sets of cards in different core sets.



True, but several of the planeswalkers have been pretty much the same, and many of the cards are reprints, especially the MacLands.

I agree about 'don't mess with the black border,' IMHO white cards have borders only a mother could love.

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They should have done white borders with modern masters just to make the original copies more valuable, but not with M14.

They should do M14 like they do M10 to M13, that is, print new cards, but have the feel and vibe of 7th edition to 10th edition in terms of functional reprints only.

If there is a functional reprint of something, they should use the earliest version of that reprint.  Stuff like Raise dead, Hill Giant, Grizzly bears, rather than Disentomb, Canyon Minotaur, or Runeclaw bear.
Nah Nah Nah... Nah Nah Nah... SPORTSCENTER... THE PLACE FOR SPORTS
Hill Giant and Grizzly Bears are soooo 1999.

I much prefer the "new names". 
as long as there's new cards added like a legendary jellyfish creature, or a jellyfish-like planeswalker, or a tribal jellyfish card, or even an old jellyfish reprint like Man-o'-War, I'll take it.



...mmm... foiled man-o-war...
as long as there's new cards added like a legendary jellyfish creature, or a jellyfish-like planeswalker, or a tribal jellyfish card, or even an old jellyfish reprint like Man-o'-War, I'll take it.


So you want Jellyfishlauncher back?

as long as there's new cards added like a legendary jellyfish creature, or a jellyfish-like planeswalker, or a tribal jellyfish card, or even an old jellyfish reprint like Man-o'-War, I'll take it.


So you want Jellyfishlauncher back?




Too bad he's dead though. But for more flavor the planeswalker itself would have to be jellyfish-like, although the chances of that happening anytime soon is like 0.00000001%. Then again, the creative team did come up with Emrakul after all...

and many of the cards are reprints, especially the MacLands.


Why do you say this like it's a bad thing? It's pretty nice that you can invest in core set duals and know you'll be able to use them reliably.

Anyway since that chandra pic is the only thing we know of M14 right now (right?), everything might happen.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
What would be nice would be a set like the current sets, mechanics wise, but with old flavor.

 

To autocard: [c]Killer Whale[/c] ⇒ Killer Whale

and many of the cards are reprints, especially the MacLands.


Why do you say this like it's a bad thing? It's pretty nice that you can invest in core set duals and know you'll be able to use them reliably.

Anyway since that chandra pic is the only thing we know of M14 right now (right?), everything might happen.




My main point is that fewer reprints in a core set would be nice now that the M10/M11/M12/M13 series has four consecutive 'very similar' core sets. We already have several printings of the MacLands, maybe its time for the fetchlands to be in the core set.

Please check out my Blog:

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You're completely missing the point that the core set is supposed to be a new player's introduction to magic, and how cards work.
They need to do better than their last two outings.  M12 and M13 have been very poor, from a limited game play standpoint as well as a constructed staple standpoint.




In fact, I really don't see the purpose of the core set anymore.  Duels of the Planeswalker is a MUCH better teaching and recruiting tool than the core set.  So let's get rid of all the vanilla chaff and the purposely mild stuff, and make a real set.


I would much rather see a stand alone set produced each Summer, meant to be drafted by itself.  It wouldn't be part of the current block, so would not effect block constructed.  You could still make the set a little reprint heavy, to meet that aspect of the core set.  It would both sell better and be better for constructed and limited Magic.  You wouldn't have pro level events playing Core set limited. 
That should cover my daily dose of ridiculous crap said without enough indicative sarcasm over the Internet.

Core sets are "mild" and bad cards, like Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Sublime Archangel, Knight of Glory, Flinthoof Boar, Duress, Mutilate; I just- what? I must be new to this game, because I think M13 has more noteworthy cards than any other single set in standard.
Favorite set: Arabian Nights Favorite planeswalker: Taysir, the One Made of Five Favorite book cycle: Ice Age Favorite creature type(s): Elephant (W), Minotaur (R), Shade (B), Spider (G), Cephalid (U) Myr (Artifact) Pauper: Monoblack Control Modern: Zombie Tribal; Unyaro Stax Cube: The Moons of Mirrodin
That should cover my daily dose of ridiculous crap said without enough indicative sarcasm over the Internet. Core sets are "mild" and bad cards, like Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Sublime Archangel, Knight of Glory, Flinthoof Boar, Duress, Mutilate; I just- what? I must be new to this game, because I think M13 has more noteworthy cards than any other single set in standard.




This.  

Core has always brough amazing cards like wrath of god and birds of paradise, and the painlands.

 
That should cover my daily dose of ridiculous crap said without enough indicative sarcasm over the Internet. Core sets are "mild" and bad cards, like Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Sublime Archangel, Knight of Glory, Flinthoof Boar, Duress, Mutilate; I just- what? I must be new to this game, because I think M13 has more noteworthy cards than any other single set in standard.





They put some chase cards at the top to sell packs.  The commons and uncommons are full of toned down and vanilla effects.  This is not a revelation, it's the way they intentionally design the sets.  So, basically, you don't know what you're talking about.
That should cover my daily dose of ridiculous crap said without enough indicative sarcasm over the Internet. Core sets are "mild" and bad cards, like Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Sublime Archangel, Knight of Glory, Flinthoof Boar, Duress, Mutilate; I just- what? I must be new to this game, because I think M13 has more noteworthy cards than any other single set in standard.





They put some chase cards at the top to sell packs.  The commons and uncommons are full of toned down and vanilla effects.  This is not a revelation, it's the way they intentionally design the sets.  So, basically, you don't know what you're talking about.



M13 has better commons and uncommons than any other set in standard, too.  Searing Spear, Farseek, Vampire Nighthawk, Rancor, Acidic Slime, Arbor Elf, Augur of Bolas, Knight of Glory, Knight of Infamy, Duress, Elixir of Immortality, Reliquary Tower, Revive, Rewind, Tormod's Crypt; they make every set to be draftable, so there are going to be cards included purely for drafting purposes.  And not having unique keywords or multicolor cards clearly doesn't make the set any weaker.  M13 is a knockout.  Have you looked at commons and uncommons from INN block recently?  Those cards are horrible.
Favorite set: Arabian Nights Favorite planeswalker: Taysir, the One Made of Five Favorite book cycle: Ice Age Favorite creature type(s): Elephant (W), Minotaur (R), Shade (B), Spider (G), Cephalid (U) Myr (Artifact) Pauper: Monoblack Control Modern: Zombie Tribal; Unyaro Stax Cube: The Moons of Mirrodin
That should cover my daily dose of ridiculous crap said without enough indicative sarcasm over the Internet. Core sets are "mild" and bad cards, like Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Sublime Archangel, Knight of Glory, Flinthoof Boar, Duress, Mutilate; I just- what? I must be new to this game, because I think M13 has more noteworthy cards than any other single set in standard.





They put some chase cards at the top to sell packs.  The commons and uncommons are full of toned down and vanilla effects.  This is not a revelation, it's the way they intentionally design the sets.  So, basically, you don't know what you're talking about.



And by saying that, you've outted yourself as an idiot.  One could easily ask how many "chase" commons or uncommons are in ANY set?  Rares are always going to be well.....more rare than other cards, and more powerful as well.  

Off the top of my head, cards like duress, farseek, flames of the firebrand, and elvish visionary make up a solid foundation of many decks.  Knight of infamy and glory are solid cards.  Krenko's command and such token producers see play in standard.  Show me a black deck that isn't using murder right now.....Pacifism is usually under rated, but sees some play, as did arrest when it was legal.  

Rancor is heralded as one of the best enchantments of ALL time....and guess what?  Its uncommon in M13.  

It may not be big at the moment, as the meta is very aggro right now, but rewind used to be an amazing control enabler, and when control swings back in favor, it will see play.  Serra Angel is classic, and there ARE better choices out right now (restoration angel jumps to mind) she's a great budget sub.  

Unsummon and boomerang have both been  staples of core sets in the past, as molten rain and stone rain were in their day.  

So there ya go....plenty of excellent choices past and present....and not one of them rares or mythics. 
A rare Rancor would have caused riots.

Show me a rare anti-creature instant that isn't used over murder by the affiliated colors.

I run Abrupt Decay in my BG zombies deck.
It kills Liliana of the Veil, Oblivion Ring, Detention Sphere, all the Keyrunes, Rest in Peace, Dreg Mangler, Geralf's Messenger, Silverblade Paladin... and generally every card that hinders my zombies from winning turn 4 or 5. 

For rare spells, look at Rakdos' Return and Sphinx's Revelations: X card advantage.

Rare spells would likely "Destroy All Creatures" instead of merely destroying one.
A rare Rancor would have caused riots.

Show me a rare anti-creature instant that isn't used over murder by the affiliated colors.

I run Abrupt Decay in my BG zombies deck.
It kills Liliana of the Veil, Oblivion Ring, Detention Sphere, all the Keyrunes, Rest in Peace, Dreg Mangler, Geralf's Messenger, Silverblade Paladin... and generally every card that hinders my zombies from winning turn 4 or 5. 

For rare spells, look at Rakdos' Return and Sphinx's Revelations: X card advantage.

Rare spells would likely "Destroy All Creatures" instead of merely destroying one.




Yeah...that's all great....except the conversation was about non-rare cards, and how this core set sucks.  Yes, everyone loves playing verdict and revelation.  They're both rares.  
Show me a rare anti-creature instant that isn't used over murder by the affiliated colors.


Well, Magmaquake hasn't seen much play.  Abrupt Decay does, but it's not particularly good against the most dangerous creatures in standard right now.

And that's it.  Those are the only rare instants that deal with creatures.
Show me a rare anti-creature instant that isn't used over murder by the affiliated colors.


Well, Magmaquake hasn't seen much play.  Abrupt Decay does, but it's not particularly good against the most dangerous creatures in standard right now.

And that's it.  Those are the only rare instants that deal with creatures.



Aurelia's Fury
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c1b8574f03c7cff35d72311f1208599a.jpg?v=90000)
as long as there's new cards added like a legendary jellyfish creature, or a jellyfish-like planeswalker, or a tribal jellyfish card, or even an old jellyfish reprint like Man-o'-War, I'll take it.



...mmm... foiled man-o-war...



Mistform Ultimus?


Mistform Ultimus?



From now on, whenever I cast a creature that is all creature types, I'll choose one really weird one and say that it's that.  It's everything else too, but hey...

"Ok, so I cast Mistform Ultimus.  He's a 3/3 albacore tuna illusion..."





Mistform Ultimus?



From now on, whenever I cast a creature that is all creature types, I'll choose one really weird one and say that it's that.  It's everything else too, but hey...

"Ok, so I cast Mistform Ultimus.  He's a 3/3 albacore tuna illusion..."

205.3m The creature types are Advisor, Ally, Angel, Anteater, Antelope, Ape, Archer, Archon, Artificer, Assassin, Assembly-Worker, Atog, Aurochs, Avatar, Badger, Barbarian, Basilisk, Bat, Bear, Beast, Beeble, Berserker, Bird, Blinkmoth, Boar, Bringer, Brushwagg, Camarid, Camel, Caribou, Carrier, Cat, Centaur, Cephalid, Chimera, Citizen, Cleric, Cockatrice, Construct, Coward, Crab, Crocodile, Cyclops, Dauthi, Demon, Deserter, Devil, Djinn, Dragon, Drake, Dreadnought, Drone, Druid, Dryad, Dwarf, Efreet, Elder, Eldrazi, Elemental, Elephant, Elf, Elk, Eye, Faerie, Ferret, Fish, Flagbearer, Fox, Frog, Fungus, Gargoyle, Germ, Giant, Gnome, Goat, Goblin, Golem, Gorgon, Graveborn, Gremlin, Griffin, Hag, Harpy, Hellion, Hippo, Hippogriff, Homarid, Homunculus, Horror, Horse, Hound, Human, Hydra, Hyena, Illusion, Imp, Incarnation, Insect, Jellyfish, Juggernaut, Kavu, Kirin, Kithkin, Knight, Kobold, Kor, Kraken, Lammasu, Leech, Leviathan, Lhurgoyf, Licid, Lizard, Manticore, Masticore, Mercenary, Merfolk, Metathran, Minion, Minotaur, Monger, Mongoose, Monk, Moonfolk, Mutant, Myr, Mystic, Nautilus, Nephilim, Nightmare, Nightstalker, Ninja, Noggle, Nomad, Octopus, Ogre, Ooze, Orb, Orc, Orgg, Ouphe, Ox, Oyster, Pegasus, Pentavite, Pest, Phelddagrif, Phoenix, Pincher, Pirate, Plant, Praetor, Prism, Rabbit, Rat, Rebel, Reflection, Rhino, Rigger, Rogue, Salamander, Samurai, Sand, Saproling, Satyr, Scarecrow, Scorpion, Scout, Serf, Serpent, Shade, Shaman, Shapeshifter, Sheep, Siren, Skeleton, Slith, Sliver, Slug, Snake, Soldier, Soltari, Spawn, Specter, Spellshaper, Sphinx, Spider, Spike, Spirit, Splinter, Sponge, Squid, Squirrel, Starfish, Surrakar, Survivor, Tetravite, Thalakos, Thopter, Thrull, Treefolk, Triskelavite, Troll, Turtle, Unicorn, Vampire, Vedalken, Viashino, Volver, Wall, Warrior, Weird, Werewolf, Whale, Wizard, Wolf, Wolverine, Wombat, Worm, Wraith, Wurm, Yeti, Zombie, and Zubera

proud member of the 2011 community team
Then I make him a a coward/wombat/juggernaut.  LOL
That should cover my daily dose of ridiculous crap said without enough indicative sarcasm over the Internet. Core sets are "mild" and bad cards, like Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, Sublime Archangel, Knight of Glory, Flinthoof Boar, Duress, Mutilate; I just- what? I must be new to this game, because I think M13 has more noteworthy cards than any other single set in standard.


They put some chase cards at the top to sell packs.  The commons and uncommons are full of toned down and vanilla effects.  This is not a revelation, it's the way they intentionally design the sets.  So, basically, you don't know what you're talking about.


It used to be, though, that the Core Sets were significantly weaker than the expansions, because they came out every two years and it was presumed that they would interfere with having Standard rotate otherwise.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing a core set like lorwyn as long as its not based around infect type stuff like it could of been if something was done like that for the scars block. I liked M12 the most. I was happy yet disapointed with m13. 250ish cards is enough for a set still I think.


Mistform Ultimus?



From now on, whenever I cast a creature that is all creature types, I'll choose one really weird one and say that it's that.  It's everything else too, but hey...

"Ok, so I cast Mistform Ultimus.  He's a 3/3 albacore tuna illusion..."






That would rock, very funny

Please check out my Blog:

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They need to do better than their last two outings.  M12 and M13 have been very poor, from a limited game play standpoint as well as a constructed staple standpoint.






Pah. M13 limited was awesome. M11 limited was hampered by the fact that blue was way stronger than any other color.
That was most likely due to blue having three different Scry cards, all of which were common. Augury Owl, Foresee, and Preordain make for very good filtering. Black got the Viscera Seer of course while every color could scry with Crystal Ball.

But looking at the M11 list, I'd say every color got some good stuff. Counting the quality commons and uncommons, which of course are the primary focus of limited:


White's common showing was a bit weak compared to other colors, but it has some solid uncommons.


I can see what you mean about blue; it had a lot of quality commons which no doubt gave it a serious edge in limited.


Black had some good commons if you wanted to run discard. Which, considering blue had Mana Leak and Negate, you probably did. It's uncommon selection wasn't bad, either, especially Reassembling Skeleton who could take counter, kill, and burn spells all day long, blocked like a champ, and made good sac fodder for Viscera Seer and Bloodthrone Vampire while he was at it.


Red just about had the fewest total quality common and uncommon cards in M11 limited. But what it lacked in quantity it more than made up for in quality, seeing its most famous burn spell return and providing artifact removal on a creature when it was needed most. The uncommons weren't half bad either, especially Combust which would prove quite useful in a limited full of Safe Passages, Mana Leaks, and Negates.


Interestingly enough, green is comparable to blue by featuring a lot of strong commons but few exceptional uncommons. Fog, Giant Growth, and Naturalize are as useful as ever while Sylvan Ranger provides color fixing in Gx decks.

Noticeably, there was a trend where the Planeswalker spells tended to be quite efficient in limited, though this was less true for Ajani's Mantra, Chandra's Outrage, and Garruk's Packleader.

2. Do you want a larger core set?

In general, I don't think that most people want larger sets.

Fourth Edition and Tenth Edition both had 121 rares, 121 uncommons, and 121 commons. Let's suppose that this is what is meant by a "larger" core set.

Currently, large sets have 53 rares and 15 mythic rares, with mythic rares twice as rare as ordinary sets. This has likely been achieved by printing sheets of 121 cards with the 53 rares each printed twice and the 15 mythics printed once (Wizards does not make official statements about this sort of thing).

So a mythic rare is only as rare as a regular rare was in those old larger core sets.

Well, there were howls of rage when Wizards introduced Mythics (previously, large sets had 88 rares, down from 110 rares which they had before that) because they were so rare they would be very expensive, and so on.

So a set in which the mere rares would be as rare as mythics... would, presumably, get a cold reception in today's climate.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

You also have to consider that there are type 1 rares and type 2 rares, one being far more frequent than the other. So while taplands are a common enough rare pull in M13, a Thragtusk or Rhox Faithmender might only show up once per box.
Favorite set: Arabian Nights Favorite planeswalker: Taysir, the One Made of Five Favorite book cycle: Ice Age Favorite creature type(s): Elephant (W), Minotaur (R), Shade (B), Spider (G), Cephalid (U) Myr (Artifact) Pauper: Monoblack Control Modern: Zombie Tribal; Unyaro Stax Cube: The Moons of Mirrodin
A Core Set could run a 4 copy set of cards for each color like Rune Snag or Life Burst.
Or how about old borders?!?!?!

no!



YES!

Iam tired of sets being geared twards limited and edh.
Decks I play
Show
Legacy TezzFinityLegacy BurnModern Infect(need to break it) T2-dead
[sblock]
57307308 wrote:
Yes, but DOES HE PEE COLOURLESS MANA?
144543765 wrote:
144018173 wrote:
Serra Angel Serra Sphinx Serra Spider Though Vigilance is a poor fit for red, so I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serra Dragon. I could see Serra Demon, though.
Black Serra creature would have vigilance and fear. It would basically be Batman.
[//sblock]
You also have to consider that there are type 1 rares and type 2 rares, one being far more frequent than the other. So while taplands are a common enough rare pull in M13, a Thragtusk or Rhox Faithmender might only show up once per box.

No, this is a myth. All rares that are not mythic are equally probable; it just seems as though you always get junk rares instead of the one you want... because only a few of the rares are chase rares.

A box has 36 boosters in it, and any one specific rare shows up, on average, once in every 60 1/2 boosters in a large set.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.