Confused by timings from Gatecrash FAQ

14 posts / 0 new
Last post
For the card Nightveil Specter, the following can be read from the Gatecrash FAQ:
"* Playing a card exiled with Nightveil Specter follows all the normal rules for playing that card. You must pay its costs, and you must follow all timing restrictions, for example."

I don't understand this at all. The card clearly states that you may play the card.

When I asked about the rulings for Windbrisk Heights, it was stated that I could play any spell, not only instants, since the card's rule text clearly stated that I could play it. From that discussion, I learned that this was the case since MTG rules never forbids me to play a sorcery spell in the combat phase (for example), but rather never says that I actually can. The rules allows me to play instant spells in the combat phase, but it never tells you that you can, or can't, play sorcery spells. But the rule text on Windbrisk Heights now says that I can play that very card.

The same logic should apply to Nightveil Specter. The card clearly says I can play the exiled card. What forbids me to play it whenever I want? I don't understand the difference between these two cards, because the wording is the same, to me.
yes, the card says you can play it
not the triggered ability

that's the difference
Windbrisk Heights allows you to cast the card during the resolution of the ability, giving you explicit permission to cast it (you normally can't cast anything during the resolution of a spell or ability)

Nightveil Specter's triggered ability only lets you exile the card
its static ability allows you to play the exiled cards, but don't grant any special timing exceptions
proud member of the 2011 community team
The difference between nightveil specter and winbrisk heights is that windbrisk heights has a one-shot effect which instructs you to play the card during the resolution of windbrisk heights's ability. Nightveil specter, on the other hand, has a static ability which applies at all times and generates a continuous effect.

In other words: windbrisk heights specifies exactly when the spell is to be cast and thus is giving you permission to cast it at that specific time, while nightveil specter says nothing about when and is thus only modifying where you can cast it from.
I hear what you're saying, but I still don't understand the difference.

Thing is, even though Windbrisk Heights has a one-shot effect, this ability doesn't have to be played at combat phase. The same logic could then apply to this very card, since I could wait until my next main phase and then play the sorcery spell.

What rules are you referencing to figure this out (if you were to prove your case)?

If Nightveril Specter would have an activated ability that said: "0: You may play cards exiled with Nightveil Specter", would that make any difference?

What if it said "0: You may play the last exiled card with Nightveril Specter."?

What is Windbrisk Heights where to say "You may play the exiled card if you attacked  with three or more creatures this turn."? No activated ability.
when the activated ability from Windbrisk Heights is over you can no longer cast the card
you can only cast it when the ability is resolving

similarly you can no longer cast the cards exiled with Nightveil Specter when he has left the battlefield

the timing exception granted by Windbrisk Heights is subtle, but if it wasn't there the ability simply wouldn't work
the Specter doesn't need an exception to work


with your changed text the Specter would also grant a timing exception (and Windbrisk Heights would lose it)
proud member of the 2011 community team

Thing is, even though Windbrisk Heights has a one-shot effect, this ability doesn't have to be played at combat phase.

That's right, activated abilities can be played any time you could cast an instant.
The same logic could then apply to this very card

But nightveril specter does not have an activated ability, it has a static ability. Static abilities don't produce one-shot effects, they produce continuous effects
What rules are you referencing to figure this out (if you were to prove your case)?

This rule says that static abilities generate continuous effects. There is no analagous rule saying they create one-shot effects:
604.2. Static abilities create continuous effects, some of which are prevention effects or replacement effects. These effects are active as long as the permanent with the ability remains on the battlefield and has the ability, or as long as the object with the ability remains in the appropriate zone, as described in rule 112.6.

If Nightveril Specter would have an activated ability that said: "0: You may play cards exiled with Nightveil Specter", would that make any difference?

What if it said "0: You may play the last exiled card with Nightveril Specter."?

Yes, that ability would be closer to what windbrisk heights has. The exiled card could be cast only as that ability resolves.
What is Windbrisk Heights where to say "You may play the exiled card if you attacked  with three or more creatures this turn."? No activated ability.

It woud function similarly to nightveril specter. It specifies where you could cast the spell from, but not when (other than a restriction that 3 or more creatuers have to have attacked).

I hear what you're saying, but I still don't understand the difference.

Some effects instruct you to cast a spell (often at your option) immediately as part of the resolving spell/ability.
Some effects create continuous effects that give you permissions to cast a spell from another zone or at another time or for a different cost. These will typically include a duration (like on Praetor's Grasp or Intet), though it isn't required to do so if it's a static ability on a permanent (like on Nightveil Specter) or emblem because in these cases the effect will remain as long as that object remains in that zone. 

examples of the first type include: Brilliant Ultimatum, triggered ability of Omen Machine, activated ability of Djinn of Wishes, cascade

examples of the second type include: Nightveil Specter, Intet, the Dreamer, Omniscience, Praetor's Grasp, Sins of the Past, flash, flashback

The first type gives specific permissions to cast/play the card during the resolution of the spell/ability so you can irrespective of normal timing rules.

The second type only give the specific permissions granted by the effect and you must still obey all other applicable timing rules.

Both types of effects are still subject to restriction effects. eg. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Rule of Law, Silence, Nevermore

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

You can play cards anytime that you have permission to cast it. The rules give you the following permissions by default:

- You may play cards in your hand.
- You may cast instant spells anytime you have priority.
- You may play other cards during your main phase when you have priority and there are no other spells or abilities on the stack.

Other cards can grant further permissions or restrictions that affect what you can do. Nightveil Specter gives you permission to play any cards it exiles as long as it is on the battlefield. Windbrisk Heights gives you permission to play the exiled card at the time its ability resolves if you attacked with three or more creatures this turn. Restrictions, however, always trump permissions. You can't cast a creature card exiled with Nightveil Specter if you control Steel Golem. The
Rules Advisor
Do the card(s) exiled by Nightveil Specter still need to be payed for with the correct mana cost as well as the other parameters mentioned above?
Yes. you can cast them if you pay their costs including mana cost exactly.

Do the card(s) exiled by Nightveil Specter still need to be payed for with the correct mana cost as well as the other parameters mentioned above?


As the OP quoted from the FAQ:


"* Playing a card exiled with Nightveil Specter follows all the normal rules for playing that card. You must pay its costs, and you must follow all timing restrictions, for example."


Maybe that's why the Dimir use Chromatic Lanterns.

[<o>]
Do the card(s) exiled by Nightveil Specter still need to be payed for with the correct mana cost as well as the other parameters mentioned above?

certainly, but you may end up exiling some of their land cards and you can play them as your normal land drop which will give you access to those colours of mana

an Azorious or Orzhov (or Esper) build pairing Specter with Silverblade Paladin is just scary

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

Great! I never notice that this ability include land card.

Please autocard , check it on [read this first] - creating a rules thread.

And use lower case c to autocard.

The reason you can play opponent's lands and nonlands cards via Nightveil Specter is because it uses the wording "You may play cards exiled with Nightveil Specter." If it said "You may cast cards exiled with Nightveil Specter." then you would only be able to cast nonland cards. 

You can play any card. You just can't cast a land card. Normal restrictions apply of course, unless a card says otherwise.
Sign In to post comments