Resource Management and the One Area Where the Barbarian is Lacking

So, I have been thinking about resource management. One think DDN has done really well, so far, is giving every class neat, unique, and interesting ways to manage their resources.


A fighter has to think about two resources: his reaction and his Martial Damage Dice. On one hand, he will frequently have to choose between using a reaction or saving a reaction to parry, make an opportunity attack, or do something like use the protect maneuver. Then, on his turn, he has to choose between using his MDD to deal damage or stack on rider effects. Whenever he does so, he has to think about multiple different rider effects that he can stack on. This seems great and interesting.


The monk doesn’t need to worry about his reaction nearly as much. He doesn’t get as many options in that regard. But, the same principles apply in regards to the use of the MDD on his turn, and he must think about when to use his daily ki ability. This too seems great and interesting.


The rogue is a different creature entirely. Your scheme grants an ability that requires a fair amount of thought when it comes to positioning yourself on the battlefield. This isn’t exactly a resource, but it requires the same amount of consideration in play. (For example: how can I sneak up on my foe so that he will be unaware of my presence? How can I gain advantage? How can I get an enemy to attack me and ensure that, statistically speaking, it will miss? Or, should I use my reaction to impose disadvantage or should I save it for an opportunity attack?) Then the rogue gets a unique method of using the skill die. It can expend the skill die (losing the ability to add it to rolls) in return for pulling off an impressive trick (and there are multiple tricks it can potentially pull off). Once again, this seems unique and interesting.


The wizard, meanwhile, gets its daily resources. It must choose what spell to cast (from a large number memorized), what slot to use, and must consider the fact that whatever slot is used that slot is lost for the rest of the day. Again, this is unique and interesting.


The cleric gets a mix of casting ala the wizard (though with a different list) and its domain ability (which largely acts as a binary “when should I use this limited resource power that I have"). Again, this is unique an interesting.


Now, for the most part, I really like the direction the barbarian is heading. But, there is one complaint that I think seems fair: it doesn’t really manage any resources that make it as interesting to play at the table as any other class. It has to choose when to rage, and once it rages it has to choose how to move/who to attack so that it won’t end up losing its rage. That is cool. I would rather the rage was not a daily mechanic (as I feel that the mechanic is starting to get overused between ki powers, domain powers, and spellcasting), but I can deal with it. But other than this choice it doesn’t have much else. It doesn’t have a list of powers which it can choose to use or not use from round to round; it has only one power (reckless attack). It doesn’t get any other facets to consider until  level 11 when it gets channel fury and then level 18 when it gets unchecked fury. This leaves someone playing this class with a lot less to consider. I don’t find that nearly as interesting.


I really like the theme behind the barbarian. That is to say, I like the way your choices amount to a consideration of “do I want to use a powerful attack at the cost of placing myself at risk.” But, there needs to be a more robust list of choices from round to round earlier in the characters lifespan. Personally, I would rather the rage mechanic also moved away from a daily mechanic and more towards some new/interesting resource management system. Maybe using a rage costs a Hit Die, for example? Or, maybe keep the rage on a daily limit, but then allow barbarians to receive an extra use of a rage per day by spending a Hit Die? Maybe give barbarians some shouts they can use from round to round, adding to their list of potential options when it comes to their action economy? Maybe allow them to expend Hit Dice to gain damage boosts (at the cost of being able to heal themselves between fights)? I don’t know. But, compared to everything else, this is the one area where the barbarian seems lacking.


 

The 5e of D&D: its like a more balanced version of 2e, but with the character customization frills of 3e and 4e. I love it!

Every class does not need resource manange.  It's ok for a few straight forward classes (and barbarian fit's that nicely).

On the flip side, i want at a few classes that have to juggle resources like runepriest do.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Every class does not need resource manange.  It's ok for a few straight forward classes (and barbarian fit's that nicely).



No, it's not ok for a few classes to not have resources to manage.  It's entirely ok for classes to have the option to not manage resources, but to paint a whole class as "that's the simple one" is not acceptable.  I should have the option of the full choice-based gameplay I desire regardless of which class I choose.  People who don't want that style of gameplay should also have the option of a simpler style.

I do find it odd, however, that the people who enjoy games where the combat repertoire of certain classes consists of "I attack" tend to be the same people who complain that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.  Go figure.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I'd like the option to make whatever class straightforward, without a lot of resource management, or to make whatever class involve tactical and strategic resource managment.
Every class does not need resource manange.  It's ok for a few straight forward classes (and barbarian fit's that nicely).



No, it's not ok for a few classes to not have resources to manage.  It's entirely ok for classes to have the option to not manage resources, but to paint a whole class as "that's the simple one" is not acceptable.  I should have the option of the full choice-based gameplay I desire regardless of which class I choose.  People who don't want that style of gameplay should also have the option of a simpler style.

As nice as that would be...  I don't know how you could both give a class resources to manage, but also not give them anything to manage.

Perhaps if WoTC studed up on quantium physics.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

There's a reason my sig is what it is, mellored. And they've already done it: just look at the Fighter.  Options and choices and maneuvers and such, but the "simple option" is to just forget all that nonsense and treat your XD/MDD as just a straight-up damage bonus.

Quantum edition, they has done it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Every class does not need resource manange.  It's ok for a few straight forward classes (and barbarian fit's that nicely).



No, it's not ok for a few classes to not have resources to manage.  It's entirely ok for classes to have the option to not manage resources, but to paint a whole class as "that's the simple one" is not acceptable.  I should have the option of the full choice-based gameplay I desire regardless of which class I choose.  People who don't want that style of gameplay should also have the option of a simpler style.

As nice as that would be...  I don't know how you could both give a class resources to manage, but also not give them anything to manage.

Perhaps if WoTC studed up on quantium physics.



Its pretty simple. You give every class selectable class features, some of which are persistant effects that require no managment that can be swapped for limited effects that do require management.
talky mans hurt thunk head with words. thunk no want manage three horses.

"Resources" Thunk. Resources.

I don't think every class needs to have resource management as a default. The barbarian should be able to be the "I attack" guy. But there should be alternate rages or variants to throw a bone to players who want it.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I would have liked to see no WDD or maneuvers for the barbarian and instead have a simple fury-point mechanic.

A very rough idea is something like this:
Gain fury when you hit/are hit by an attack. Start every encounter with 1 fury point. Fury fades after 1 minute of non-combat. You can spend fury on strikes or "primal outbursts" (rages and guardian forms). Strikes cost 1 fury, outbursts cost 3. Barbarians start knowing 2 strikes and 1 outburst. Gain additional strikes/outbursts with level. Outbursts function similarly to 4e rages/guardian forms in that they include an attack and an encounter long buff.

Example Strikes:
Rage Strike - +1[W] damage
Avalanche Strike - Gain advantage on the attack but grant advantage to all enemies
Minotaur Charge - Move speed and attack as a single action, successful hit knocks target prone
Great Cleave - Make a single attack and compare result to the AC of each adjacent creature. Any creature hit by this attack takes 1/2 normal damage.

Example Outbursts:
Stone Dragon's Embrace - +2[W] damage and knock the target prone.
Effect: You assume the form of the stone dragon until the end of the encounter. While in this form you gain resistance to all damage and adjacent enemies suffer disadvantage on all attacks that do not include you as a target.

Swift Panther Rage - Move up to your speed and make an attack with +2[W] damage. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.
Effect: You enter the swift panther rage until the end of the encounter. While you are in this rage your movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

Berserk! - Make a single attack and compare result to the AC of each adjacent creature. Any creature hit by this attack takes weapon damage as normal +1[W].
Effect: You enter the berserk rage until the end of the encounter. While in this rage your weapon attacks deal an additional +1[W] damage.

Something like that would be more simple than the fighter and all of their options from WDD and maneuvers, but still provide the player with interesting choices and options. 
I would have liked to see no WDD or maneuvers for the barbarian and instead have a simple fury-point mechanic.

A very rough idea is something like this:
Gain fury when you hit/are hit by an attack. Start every encounter with 1 fury point. Fury fades after 1 minute of non-combat. You can spend fury on strikes or "primal outbursts" (rages and guardian forms). Strikes cost 1 fury, outbursts cost 3. Barbarians start knowing 2 strikes and 1 outburst. Gain additional strikes/outbursts with level. Outbursts function similarly to 4e rages/guardian forms in that they include an attack and an encounter long buff.

Example Strikes:
Rage Strike - +1[W] damage
Avalanche Strike - Gain advantage on the attack but grant advantage to all enemies
Minotaur Charge - Move speed and attack as a single action, successful hit knocks target prone
Great Cleave - Make a single attack and compare result to the AC of each adjacent creature. Any creature hit by this attack takes 1/2 normal damage.

Example Outbursts:
Stone Dragon's Embrace - +2[W] damage and knock the target prone.
Effect: You assume the form of the stone dragon until the end of the encounter. While in this form you gain resistance to all damage and adjacent enemies suffer disadvantage on all attacks that do not include you as a target.

Swift Panther Rage - Move up to your speed and make an attack with +2[W] damage. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.
Effect: You enter the swift panther rage until the end of the encounter. While you are in this rage your movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

Berserk! - Make a single attack and compare result to the AC of each adjacent creature. Any creature hit by this attack takes weapon damage as normal +1[W].
Effect: You enter the berserk rage until the end of the encounter. While in this rage your weapon attacks deal an additional +1[W] damage.



Way too much book keeping, and basically completely impossible to balance unless every fight is completely scripted to deliver a certain number of attacks against and for the barbarian to take.  A fury system like this works great for a video game but for table top its just way to fiddly.  Also something about the names is just off putting in general.  The names seem kind of contrived and tacked on for no reason. Avalanche Strike just sounds kinda cheesy and doesn't really explain what is happening.  Reckless Strike (the exact same thing) sounds exactly right, your making a reckless attack it makes your attack more likely to hit but you open your self up to counter attack.
talky mans hurt thunk head with words. thunk no want manage three horses. "Resources" Thunk. Resources. I don't think every class needs to have resource management as a default. The barbarian should be able to be the "I attack" guy. But there should be alternate rages or variants to throw a bone to players who want it.




pretty much guaranteed by mearls article.  this barbarian is the stock basic version with all options selected for us. It is prectically a pregen character except we get to tac on our own ability scores, Race, Backgrounds, and Specialties.  There will be some flexability in here.
Ideally, no class would be locked into just "has resource management" or "does not" - ideally there would be some options there (yes, even from the start) to allow players who want to play the character archetype the class represents in a manner they actually enjoy.

Tying archetypes to specific playstyles is one of the things I despise about many class-based systems (okay, let's not lie - it's mostly just D&D) - but it doesn't have to be a part of a class-based system, because you can actually include a variety of options.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
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Every class does not need resource manange.  It's ok for a few straight forward classes (and barbarian fit's that nicely).



No, it's not ok for a few classes to not have resources to manage.  It's entirely ok for classes to have the option to not manage resources, but to paint a whole class as "that's the simple one" is not acceptable.  I should have the option of the full choice-based gameplay I desire regardless of which class I choose.  People who don't want that style of gameplay should also have the option of a simpler style.

I do find it odd, however, that the people who enjoy games where the combat repertoire of certain classes consists of "I attack" tend to be the same people who complain that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.  Go figure.



A classes combat repertoire has nothing to do with the fact that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.

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One think DDN has done really well, so far, is giving every class neat, unique, and interesting ways to manage their resources.

Interesting.  I disagree with this; in fact, one thing I'd love to see -more- of is each class getting its own resource to manage.  I was very disappointed the fighter's resource was given to everyone.  I agree that it's a good thing for classes to have interesting resources to manage, however, and you're right in that the barbarian could use one.

For those saying the class shouldn't have one, I give you:  all the people already complaining that the barbarian is a one-trick pony and has no options in combat.

However:  I'm also ok with the idea that at least one class could be extremely simple to play, with no resource to manage or anything other than basically move and attacks, because it's always fine to have a "starter" class that anyone can pick up and run with and that doesn't need any optimizing.   And the barbarian could be that class.  But since it's not a "basic" class, that might already be getting into a weird place.
However:  I'm also ok with the idea that at least one class could be extremely simple to play, with no resource to manage or anything other than basically move and attacks, because it's always fine to have a "starter" class that anyone can pick up and run with and that doesn't need any optimizing.   And the barbarian could be that class.  But since it's not a "basic" class, that might already be getting into a weird place.


My issue with that is really just how it locks (when "starter class" is locked in) one archetype to one style of play, and completely confuses that those two things are distinct, and that the folks who want one may not want the other.

And it really does cut both ways.  "Fighter Barbarian is for new players (or players who want really simple/straightforward options)" has, in the past, tended to leave both "experienced players (or those who just want more complex options) who want to play the warrior berserker archetype" and "new players (or those who want simple options) who want to play an archetype other than the warrior berserker" out in the cold (at least until later publications).


Again, ideally, at the very least the basic, core, whateveryouwanttocallthem classes would allow for both "simple" and "complex" approaches to their represented archetypes.  In a more perfect world (and, coincidently, the one wherein I would actually consider purchasing DDN), all classes would have enough options to allow for their use by any player, regardless of experience of playstyle preferences.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
@greatfrito: I think you hit a homerun with your "all classes would have enough options to allow for their use by any player" assessment, at least for the core (let's say) 11 classes.  Granted, some easy-modes are going to be easier than others (I have a woman who's played over a year now who's still intimidated by spellcasters, so sticks to her rogues because she has fun with them), but the idea is to have each class expandable with options, but functional, fun, and straightforward at its core.

@nukunuku/Cyber: While I agree with Dave that it's nice to see the option for resource management throughout the classes, I am with nuk on this - the ED/MDD contagion that's spread throughout all the martial classes does not make each unique in the least. It's gone down the 4E homogeny path in that regard.  One of the things I did miss from early D&D was the truly unique feel of the classes and my personal hope was that some of that class flavor would come back with the more recent trend towards wider functionality, better balance, and more customization.  Give everyone MDD and a smattering of different options to use them on (along with all the same uses) would be similar to making all spellcasters Cleric and then pointing to Domain/Deity as making all spellcasters different.  It's not enough for me.
talky mans hurt thunk head with words. thunk no want manage three horses. "Resources" Thunk. Resources. I don't think every class needs to have resource management as a default. The barbarian should be able to be the "I attack" guy. But there should be alternate rages or variants to throw a bone to players who want it.



That is a legitimate play style which should certainly be open for Barbarians.

But what if I want to play Conan as he is depicted in the later stories?

That is NOT a "simple" or "one-dimensional" or "rage-attack" character.

But it certainly IS a Barbarian.

The key issue here is that there are no resource management options for the Barbarian.  Now they MAY come later, but they might not if we don't say that we want them.

You can have your "simple" Barbarian, just like you've got your "simple" Fighter.

But there should be "complex" options for those who, like me, want an fulfilling interactive Barbarian.           

I do find it odd, however, that the people who enjoy games where the combat repertoire of certain classes consists of "I attack" tend to be the same people who complain that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.  Go figure.



I'm very glad I'm not the only person who notices that discrepency.

I do find it odd, however, that the people who enjoy games where the combat repertoire of certain classes consists of "I attack" tend to be the same people who complain that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.  Go figure.



I'm very glad I'm not the only person who notices that discrepency.




I don't see that as a discrepency: 

combat-focused play does discourage roleplaying
and having a combat repertoire of "I attack" simply means that the class (or whole game) is not focused on combat
Try radiance RPG. A complete D20 game that supports fantasy and steampunk. Download the FREE PDF here: http://www.radiancerpg.com

I do find it odd, however, that the people who enjoy games where the combat repertoire of certain classes consists of "I attack" tend to be the same people who complain that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.  Go figure.



I'm very glad I'm not the only person who notices that discrepency.




I don't see that as a discrepency: 

combat-focused play does discourage roleplaying
and having a combat repertoire of "I attack" simply means that the class (or whole game) is not focused on combat


You mean, like, the "Fighter" class of editions past?  Sorry, I thought that was one of the combat-focused ones.  My mistake.  Please explain how the Fighter was not combat-focused, as I clearly am working on incomplete information.

Combat-focused play only discourages roleplaying if combat is boring, and doesn't allow for character expression.  Having choices and decision points during combat encourages roleplaying, and having resource management is one way of doing that.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

I do find it odd, however, that the people who enjoy games where the combat repertoire of certain classes consists of "I attack" tend to be the same people who complain that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.  Go figure.



I'm very glad I'm not the only person who notices that discrepency.




I don't see that as a discrepency: 

combat-focused play does discourage roleplaying
and having a combat repertoire of "I attack" simply means that the class (or whole game) is not focused on combat


You mean, like, the "Fighter" class of editions past?  Sorry, I thought that was one of the combat-focused ones.  My mistake.  Please explain how the Fighter was not combat-focused, as I clearly am working on incomplete information.

Combat-focused play only discourages roleplaying if combat is boring, and doesn't allow for character expression.  Having choices and decision points during combat encourages roleplaying, and having resource management is one way of doing that.



Geez, I was just emitting an opinion, no need to go all mean and sarcastic about it... no wonder some people might feel unwelcome to post here


The fighter in past edition (lets say 2e for example) is not combat focused: it's not Anything-focused
it has exactly ONE ability relating to combat
By contrast, his ability to attract followers takes 3 times as much space in the text.
You had to define for yourself what kind of person your character was, cause there was nothing else he could hide behind.

By opposition, a 3e fighter was a huge pile of well-tuned feats and combat abilities. You could very easily go without the slightest hint of a personality, or even a name.

Anyway, combat-focus is a system-specific thing:  Either the entire game is combat-focused (and all classes seem to need "balance" and things to do in combat) or it's not as a whole.
Try radiance RPG. A complete D20 game that supports fantasy and steampunk. Download the FREE PDF here: http://www.radiancerpg.com
The barbarian has a rage mechanic built into the martial damage dice, and may have different levels of rage depending on how many dice they have access to. Once a rage power is used, they loose that MDD for the entire encounter. If a barbarian wants to go into a frenzy and has access to 3 MDD, then use all of them. To recover MDD they must rest for 5 minutes. As the barbarian levels some of the more basic rage abiltiies become permanent and they do not need to expend MDD for those anymore.

The book keeping is simple.
Geez, I was just emitting an opinion, no need to go all mean and sarcastic about it... no wonder some people might feel unwelcome to post here

I find it very helpful to get accustomed to the "block" feature of this forum.  You can click someone's profile picture, and on their profile page on the left under their picture there's an option to "Block Member."

To later remove a block is trickier:  go to your own profile, click "Profile" (in the big list under your picture) and "Manage Blocks."

I do find it odd, however, that the people who enjoy games where the combat repertoire of certain classes consists of "I attack" tend to be the same people who complain that combat-focused play discourages roleplaying.  Go figure.



I'm very glad I'm not the only person who notices that discrepency.




I don't see that as a discrepency: 

combat-focused play does discourage roleplaying
and having a combat repertoire of "I attack" simply means that the class (or whole game) is not focused on combat


You mean, like, the "Fighter" class of editions past?  Sorry, I thought that was one of the combat-focused ones.  My mistake.  Please explain how the Fighter was not combat-focused, as I clearly am working on incomplete information.

Combat-focused play only discourages roleplaying if combat is boring, and doesn't allow for character expression.  Having choices and decision points during combat encourages roleplaying, and having resource management is one way of doing that.




It has extra attacks earlier than other classes, no alignment restrictions (this will send them off), possessions limit, has d10 HD, able to specialise, Stronghold Building, sick Saving Throws.
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