How do I convince players not to Min/Max or powergame

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My players show signs of wanting to min/max their characters, granted this is their first time ever playing an RPG. Is there anything I cad do other than make my games not combat heavy to make them think more about their charatcers than their stats?

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

Talk to them about it.  Maybe come up with a quick list of questions about their PC.  What are there families/backgrounds like.  Why are they adventuring.  Do they have any goals.   Incorporate the answers into the plots and adventure hooks.

Read the player type section in the DMG.  Adjust your game to fit the players you have.
Can I ask why you think one should exclude the other ?


They can be as proficient as they want to be in combat, but you can also ask them to write a character description (appearance), a backstory and some character traits that may or may not be obvious when the character is first introduced?

For example, google "rpg character backstory ", it should give them plenty of ideas.


And as GO wrote, talk to them, this is a team game where the out of combat matters just as much (or more/less depending on your views) than the combat proficiency. What I cannot stand though is the idea that one should exclude the other.  
Is there anything I cad do other than make my games not combat heavy

Have less combat, I guess.


to make them think more about their charatcers than their stats?

Let your players optimize (it's part of the game). Just give them fair warning that the campaign will be combat-lite.

     You don't.  If your players want to min-max, let them.  Give them tougher monsters to match their abilities maybe.  But the rules encourage the min-max and you are there to give the players what they want, not what you have decided is the proper style of play.
Why would you want them not to?

Min-maxing and powergaming mean they're into the game, and that's a good thing.

If they're not into the story, then no amount of discouraging them from the thing they are interested in is going to force them into getting involved in the story.  Getting them involved in the story is your job, and you have to lead them, entice them, encourage them to join you in the awesomeness.  Bludgeoning them into it by shunting them away from the things they like will only piss them off, and won't actually get you what you want.

Carrot, not stick.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Play Fiasco or something instead? 

Having powerful characters doesn't mean they can't roleplay.  Them having powerful characters makes it easier on you as a DM.  You can throw nearly anything at them, and they'll survive for the next part of the story.

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

Make them have a need to select things that are usually outside of the min/max spectrum...this is more how you build campaings...it won't warranty it will work with them...everybody is diferent, but it may work...
My players show signs of wanting to min/max their characters, granted this is their first time ever playing an RPG. Is there anything I cad do other than make my games not combat heavy to make them think more about their charatcers than their stats?

Stats are really there to provide a connection a medium of compromise, I suppose you could say, among the players (& DM) when it comes to thinking about what their characters can do.

Min/maxing gets you a certain kind of character - powerful in one area, stunted in others - but doesn't prevent the player from thinking about or developing the character, it just makes what the character is capable of very clear and quite extreme.

4e isn't like many other games in that what min/maxing you can do with it is pretty obvious and doesn't detract greatly from the character's viability outside whatever speciality he's optimized for.  A combat-optimized 4e character will still be quite good at some skills, for instance, and able to participate in a skill challenge, or have a non-adventuring background or interests since such things cost little or nothing in character build resources.  

Simply putting your fighter's best stat in STR and picking weapon/feat/exploit combos that are particularly effective isn't going to break your game in either a mechanical nor an RP sense.   Ritual combos aren't going to wreck your world's society or economy.  At worst, you dial up encounters a level or few to keep them challenged, and level advancement goes at a brisker pace.  



 

 

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Play a more story-oriented game.

And recognise that optimisation != bad roleplay, and good roleplay != suboptimal characters.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
OP didn't really define her terms either.

If by min-maxing she means "Put their highest stat in their attack stat," and, "Picked Expertise over Skill Focus: History," then as a DM he needs to go back and learn about the system he's running.  Those aren't min-maxing, they're building a baseline competent character.

If she means running a fighter with some extra control from flail support and mark of storm, or the like, that's starting to get into min maxing, but it's moving from 'not horribly inept' to 'good at your chosen profession.'  Not anything to get upset about.

If she means they're showing up with builds lifted straight out of the DPR Kings thread in CharOp, maybe she has a point.
My players show signs of wanting to min/max their characters, granted this is their first time ever playing an RPG. Is there anything I cad do other than make my games not combat heavy to make them think more about their charatcers than their stats?



1) Emphasize plot. I would suggest before character creation even begins for you to give from the top down a basic categorization of who/what their characters are. Are they a bunch of mercenary sellswords? An elite fighting unit of the Blackwheel Company? The personal strikeforce of the duke? What? You don't have to decide this without their input, but it can be a good idea to come up with an idea before even asking people if they want to play in the campaign. If you give them a hook before they even begin character creation, then you will usually get some of them that play the hook straight, and some that decide to play it strange but everyone will have at least some basic reason to be a team while hopefully having some dramatic contension.

2)   If you really object to min/maxing, you can use the ultimate form of punishment: make the campaign easy. Balance the campaign to be moderately difficult from a mechanical perspective if they do nothing but very basic optimization (by which I mean things like their two highest stats are the two most important to their class/build, they use only weapons they are proficient in, use the best armor they are proficient in, etc. Basically, not intentionally sabotaging themselves). If they min/max they will completely steamroll the combats to the point where it will be unfun (unless they are immature). If they completely don't min/max they will still win the fights, with perhaps enough effort to keep it interesting. Meanwhile focus the challenge on plot. What do they try to do, and how do they try to do it? Things that they can't solve by simply adding a high number to a d20.

Nothing encourages min/maxing more than making a campaign mechanically difficult: you either kill or neuter the non-optimized characters, and make the min/maxed characters the stars of the show. If only the characters that min/maxed can land a hit, or survive the onslaught, it'd be crazy for anyone to play a non-optimized character. But if pretty much any character is mechanically good enough, you free people up to take Linguist instead of Staff Expertise and so on. 
Then you sit back and relax and don't worry if they make combat wombats. If they end up with easy fights, then either they want that and it's fine, or they won't like it and they will self-correct (possibly even retraining to lower power, or at least growing more into fluff areas than pure combat power. 
Run the campaign as normal. Don't fall into the trap of amping up monsters, DCs, or anything else in response to what a player is doing. Chances are, if a player is trying to be good at something, he/she's going to be disappointed or frustrated if you contort the campaign to invalidate that choice. If it annoys you that combat isn't as challenging as you'd like, think of some other aspect of the game to focus on. I've played plenty of video games that are pretty easy, yet some other aspect of it kept me glued to the controller.

If you really object to min/maxing, you can use the ultimate form of punishment: make the campaign easy.



Although incredibly tempting, there is a chance this tactic might sour players on the system.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
Play a more story-oriented game.

And recognise that optimisation != bad roleplay, and good roleplay != suboptimal characters.



That's Stormwind Fallacy...optimizated character and roleplaying are in no way mutually exclusives...

Like i said...expanding the spectrum of need will "force" the character do invest on more diverse things... The Op could also talk to it's players, stating that min/max can make DMing for him a pain in the butt... 
First off, Wishful, I'm a guy. Now from what I've seen most of you switch min/maxing and optimizing freely as if they are the same terms. Sure they mean similar things but min/maxing and optimizing are very, very different. Min/maxers typically try to find loopholes and abuse them to make unrealistic Superman like characters. While optimizers tend to stick to one or two things they want their character to be good at. Min/maxers, minimize their weaknesses (to typically almost nothing) and max their strength to unrealistic proportions. Now I know both can Roleplay but when one typically spends so much time on the combat side of things RP is typically pushed to the side. 

All in all I was looking for a simple way to bring it to their attention not to start min/maxing 

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

min/maxing and optimizing are very, very different.

Your definitions seem to deviate from the norm (and the forum glossary).
Play Fiasco or something instead? 

Having powerful characters doesn't mean they can't roleplay.



This.
First off, Wishful, I'm a guy. Now from what I've seen most of you switch min/maxing and optimizing freely as if they are the same terms. Sure they mean similar things but min/maxing and optimizing are very, very different. Min/maxers typically try to find loopholes and abuse them to make unrealistic Superman like characters. While optimizers tend to stick to one or two things they want their character to be good at. Min/maxers, minimize their weaknesses (to typically almost nothing) and max their strength to unrealistic proportions. Now I know both can Roleplay but when one typically spends so much time on the combat side of things RP is typically pushed to the side. 

All in all I was looking for a simple way to bring it to their attention not to start min/maxing 



Still have no clue what you consider min/maxing. I had a character that hit on a 2, would that be against your view?

Why wouldnt you want your players to have characters that they thoroughly enjoyed? And if you want rp opportunity, talk to your players, but dont handicap them just because it doesnt fit into your view of things. 
Every group's different so I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong about your own experience.

Just... talk about it. Directly.

Point out whatever it is you think is excessive. Maybe you need to up the difficulty level-which would be the case if everyone is doing something wrong, which strikes me as less powergaming and more just a disconnect between player/DM expectations. If it turns out only one or two people are being problematic then suggest (nicely) that they back off a little bit because other people/you don't want to have to matchthem.
Another way to encourage it is to have those non-combat feats/abilities be VERY useful (or even semi-combat ones). If you have shadows/darkness a lot where their light source gets doused (a tactically sound choice by enemies used to those conditions) then suddenly taking low-light or darkvision feats becomes more useful. Have lots of people/clues in different languages so they'll find a need to actually take Linguist or the like.
To follow up on what gunthar said, you can always give out things like Linguist for free.  Encourage your players to look for feats and powers that are not very combat oriented or you pick some and give them out for free or as rewards for trying to roleplay.  There are a good number out there that most min/maxers ignore because its not worth wasting a precious feat or utility slot on.

Another thing to do is tie in things like themes and backgrounds to roleplaying.  Someone wants to pick a theme that means there will plot hooks that revolve around the theme.  Not punishments or anything like that, but if someone wants to pick the samauri, knight hospitaler, or chavalier theme then he has a lord or knightly order he has to answer to or maybe needs to avenge the death of his last lord who was assinated.  If someone picks yakuza, then he gets to be part of an powerful organization, but its at war with another clan or maybe who is hated by all the local merchants.
Players will adapt to the kind of game they are playing.  If you have a combat oriented game, they'll build for combat.  Same for skills.  Either way, your players will probably optimize or min/max to some extent. 

As the DM of my campaign, here's what I typically do.  No one makes a character until they fill out my character questions.  I have 10 questions that go into things like background, friends and family, goals beyond adventuring, and so on.  This gets my players to think of their heroes as characters rather than game pieces.  I find that they always really get into it and give me so much more than I asked for.  Then they build their characters based on those questions.  I give out themes, based on what I read.  I don't let players choose a theme, but I do give them one based on their background.  And they can discuss it with me incase I was off base.

I also give out some of the "math fix" feats for free.  I give one plain (no additional benefits) expertise feat and improved defenses for free.  I tell my group that they are getting two free feats to keep their characters effective but also so they can branch out and have some room for non-combat feats or things that look interesting.  

Then when they get into the game world, I mix things up.  Sometimes is straight ahead combat.  Sometimes heavy roleplaying.  I mix skills into combat.  I call for random skill checks.  Things like that.  If you have a regular combat, players build for regular combat.  If you have a combat with various terrain, underwater, or things that involve skills during combat, they pay more attention to skills and tend to be more balanced.  They know that an Endurance check to keep from drowning in an underwater fight is just as important as an attack roll.  An ecnounter to clear a tomb of undead is usually just a straight up fight.  If there is a portal to the shadowfell that has been ripped open and the party has to defend the ritual caster while he closes the portal, you have varitey.  You need to arcana/religion checks and the ritual caster feat, as well as good combat skills to solve the problem.  Variety is the best way to handle min/maxers.  No one wants to sit at the table and feel useless.  So they'll adapt to make their heroes effective at the variety of problems they face.  That requires a little wiggle room or diversity in their builds. 

It’s been said over and over, but I’ll say it to.


You don’t.


Just make it where they are forced to RP and make Skill checks more than combat. Tell them before it all starts your game will be RP focused and light on the Combat stuff. They will get the picture.

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The way to do it I guess is making the game RP centered then, whcih I do any way. The next question would be how do I get them involved with their characters. Every other person I've played with before has been experienced and they pretty much do this by themselves. But my players still act like they don't know their character.

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

The way to do it I guess is making the game RP centered then, whcih I do any way. The next question would be how do I get them involved with their characters. Every other person I've played with before has been experienced and they pretty much do this by themselves. But my players still act like they don't know their character.



Create interesting NPC and have them have close interaction with their characters, that's my best advice to get them involved both on their own character and the settings/campaing/world =)
Lots of advice in this thread, but in the end - if these players have no interest in roleplaying, and are just looking for a bash things type of game - they may not enjoy being forced to roleplay.  
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Lots of advice in this thread, but in the end - if these players have no interest in roleplaying, and are just looking for a bash things type of game - they may not enjoy being forced to roleplay.  

Thing is I won't run a game if I don''t enjoy it too. And they aren't just wanting combat. But whenever I offer them things they always pick the one that effects combat statistics. Then again that could be the video game mind that they have pushing them towards other choices.

But if they did just wan't a beat em up game I wouldn't run it. I would have no fun in playing it. 

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

Lots of advice in this thread, but in the end - if these players have no interest in roleplaying, and are just looking for a bash things type of game - they may not enjoy being forced to roleplay.  

Thing is I won't run a game if I don''t enjoy it too. And they aren't just wanting combat. But whenever I offer them things they always pick the one that effects combat statistics. Then again that could be the video game mind that they have pushing them towards other choices.

But if they did just wan't a beat em up game I wouldn't run it. I would have no fun in playing it. 

Which you shouldn’t


If your players just don’t want to Role Play at all then DnD is not the game for them, If all they want is combat then tell them to start playing games like Warhammer 40k.


It comes down to this, DnD without RP is playing Final Fantasy Tactics w/pen and paper, minus the story line.


I’d suggest offering them rewards for awhile that only have RP benefit to them, as well as having as much RP IC discussions with the party and your fav NPC.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

Lots of advice in this thread, but in the end - if these players have no interest in roleplaying, and are just looking for a bash things type of game - they may not enjoy being forced to roleplay.  

Thing is I won't run a game if I don''t enjoy it too. And they aren't just wanting combat. But whenever I offer them things they always pick the one that effects combat statistics. Then again that could be the video game mind that they have pushing them towards other choices.

But if they did just wan't a beat em up game I wouldn't run it. I would have no fun in playing it. 



I guess I feel like the important thing to remember is that 95% of the rules for 4e are combat-related.  And the item and feat distribution is somewhat similar. There are frightfully few relevant "out of combat statistics," and roleplaying requires precisely none of them.  The correct mechanical choice is always going to be the one that has a larger effect, and the combat statistics will always have a larger effect.  

Roleplaying situations should be resolved via...roleplaying, where mechanics are irrelevant. Skill challenges are pretty meh in my opinion, but even if you use them very frequently, taking Skill Focus instead of Crossbow Focus is never a good trade.

So my impression (you're being kind of vague) is that you're offering them choices between things like a Maul of Facesmashing +2 and a Lockpick of Greater Lockpicking.  The two just aren't of equal value, and it's absolutely unfair to be upset that they're repeatedly choosing correctly. Change up what you're offering them so that all of the options are even. Don't be afraid to present them entirely with non-combat-usable rewards for options sometimes.  I often give weapons and armor as rewards for combat, and trinkets that are better used out of combat as rewards for non-combat encounters. Of course, the barbarian is still an idiot if he replaces his horned helm with a headband of perception, but the bard might be perfectly happy wearing an exceptional factotum helm, and alternative rewards such as Gather Flames have no practical use, tons of roleplay potential, and don't compete with traditional item slots at all.  Rewarding a major roleplaying quest with a skill power is an excellent idea as well.
9 times out of 8 players lose their characters because they screwed up in combat, not in rp scenarios. Expect them to build accordingly and stop worrying about where they prioritize their mechanics if you want rp. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Lots of advice in this thread, but in the end - if these players have no interest in roleplaying, and are just looking for a bash things type of game - they may not enjoy being forced to roleplay.  

Thing is I won't run a game if I don''t enjoy it too. And they aren't just wanting combat. But whenever I offer them things they always pick the one that effects combat statistics. Then again that could be the video game mind that they have pushing them towards other choices.

But if they did just wan't a beat em up game I wouldn't run it. I would have no fun in playing it. 



I guess I feel like the important thing to remember is that 95% of the rules for 4e are combat-related.  And the item and feat distribution is somewhat similar. There are frightfully few relevant "out of combat statistics," and roleplaying requires precisely none of them.  The correct mechanical choice is always going to be the one that has a larger effect, and the combat statistics will always have a larger effect.  

Roleplaying situations should be resolved via...roleplaying, where mechanics are irrelevant. Skill challenges are pretty meh in my opinion, but even if you use them very frequently, taking Skill Focus instead of Crossbow Focus is never a good trade.

So my impression (you're being kind of vague) is that you're offering them choices between things like a Maul of Facesmashing +2 and a Lockpick of Greater Lockpicking.  The two just aren't of equal value, and it's absolutely unfair to be upset that they're repeatedly choosing correctly. Change up what you're offering them so that all of the options are even. Don't be afraid to present them entirely with non-combat-usable rewards for options sometimes.  I often give weapons and armor as rewards for combat, and trinkets that are better used out of combat as rewards for non-combat encounters. Of course, the barbarian is still an idiot if he replaces his horned helm with a headband of perception, but the bard might be perfectly happy wearing an exceptional factotum helm, and alternative rewards such as Gather Flames have no practical use, tons of roleplay potential, and don't compete with traditional item slots at all.  Rewarding a major roleplaying quest with a skill power is an excellent idea as well.


I'm not playing 4e with this game. I just didn't know where to put this. I'm actually running Pathfinder, it has many, many more out of combat related items and rules. Thats one of the reasons Pathfinder is what I prefer run.

9 times out of 8 players lose their characters because they screwed up in combat, not in rp scenarios. Expect them to build accordingly and stop worrying about where they prioritize their mechanics if you want rp. The two are not mutually exclusive.


Maybe in your game RP doesn't end characters. But it mine it has and still can. I don't take RP encounters as lightly as most people here do. And do you seriously think I don't know that Mechanics and RP can mesh together? I've seen it plenty of times. But with new Players RP is hard enough to get anyways. I don't want them halfway powergaming and forget about the main part of the game, ROLEPLAYING. Its is after all a RPG.

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

You came to the dnd board for pathfinder advise? No wonder we have no idea how to help you.
Here's a brilliant thought.  Why not ask Pathfinder questions on the Pathfinder message boards?
granted, it is probably more suited for the "What's a DM to Do?" forum, but it's not a game-specific concern, and most of the advice is solid no matter what RPG you're playing.

except maybe Call of Cthulhu, because the servants of the Elder races think you taste pretty much the same no matter how you optimized, or Kult, because... yeesh...


INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

Pathfinder, eh? Well then...make sure to reward non-combat solutions and situations far, far more than combat. Cut XP and GP gains from combat to 1/2 or 1/3 if need be. To emphasize this point to the players, make sure to give them XP on the spot for each non-combat and combat situation, so they realize what is going on.
(You may also wish to enforce a 15 point buy. There's enough chaos theory going on with 3e/PF math, you don't need crazy stats mucking it up further.)
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
You came to the dnd board for pathfinder advise? No wonder we have no idea how to help you.


You have no idea how to give basic advice on how to keep player into their character  and not worry so much about combat? Pathfinder is D&D (Just 3.5)
Here's a brilliant thought.  Why not ask Pathfinder questions on the Pathfinder message boards?


Don't be a jerk. I hate the Pathfinder boards. They are a cluttered mess. I could be rude a retaliate but I won't.

Pathfinder, eh? Well then...make sure to reward non-combat solutions and situations far, far more than combat. Cut XP and GP gains from combat to 1/2 or 1/3 if need be. To emphasize this point to the players, make sure to give them XP on the spot for each non-combat and combat situation, so they realize what is going on.
(You may also wish to enforce a 15 point buy. There's enough chaos theory going on with 3e/PF math, you don't need crazy stats mucking it up further.)


They already have their abilities though. But they aren't overpowered. I just don't wan't them to get into the mindset of I must optimize for combat and forget about the other typically more important aspects about their character. I guess I will start using XP for RP encounters as well. I also like the idea about giving them a little less XP and Gold from combat. I need to make it to where they have the possibility of getting more gold, xp, and info out of people if they actually talk to them and not just beat them up.

So far I've gotten one player to regret a choice he has made. He chose between a house, and a cloak of resistance. He chose the cloak without thinking what uses the house could be. 

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

 
So far I've gotten one player to regret a choice he has made. He chose between a house, and a cloak of resistance. He chose the cloak without thinking what uses the house could be.



that was a really unfair choice, that basically asked, "mechanics or roleplay?" if you insist on offering multiple reward options, offer multiple mechanical options OR multiple roleplaying options. Cloak or Sword? House or membership in the thieves guild? Wand of Fireballs or Mithril Platemail? lockpick or crowbar? Not covered wagon or greataxe.



I'm not playing 4e with this game. I just didn't know where to put this. I'm actually running Pathfinder, it has many, many more out of combat related items and rules. Thats one of the reasons Pathfinder is what I prefer run.

The system you are using can definitely change the recomendations. My advice on this topic for 4e (i.e. not to worry about it) is completely different from what it would be for 3.5e (which would be to stick to just the core rulebooks)... both of which are irrelevant to Pathfinder.

Also, even if you were asking about 4e, this is not the correct forum.

Try the "What's a DM to Do" forum (but tell them what system you are using, so there is no confusion). This tactic should likely garner more appropriate (and nicer) responses.
9 times out of 8 players lose their characters because they screwed up in combat, not in rp scenarios. Expect them to build accordingly and stop worrying about where they prioritize their mechanics if you want rp. The two are not mutually exclusive.



This.  Having a mechanically sound character doesnt mean they can't RP effectively.  I dont want to have nothing but combat either, but its going to be very rare I waste a feat on raising skill checks instead of a combat ability.  And waste is /exactly/ how I view my limited feat resources when you start talking skill trainings and such.

It's role playing not roll playing.  I don't need a bigger dice mod to interact with that NPC.  If your players have crummy skill check values, lower the DC level.  You'll have fun, they'll have fun...what's the problem?

 Well, the one thing that struck me was you mentioning the MMO mindset of some of the players - that's basically a sit-down-and-explain-stuff situation.
 Reset the parameters they should be optimizing within. Just make it absolutely dead clear in an out-of-game conversation that they don't absolutely need to max out their mechanical stats in order to be baseline effective (or even awesome), and that the non-game-statistic stuff like houses is going to be playing a very large part in your campaign. Flat out tell them that choosing to grind out another + to their combat statistics often won't be as useful as making another choice.
 Also, if possible, don't make it a choice between something mechanically advantageous and something narratively advantageous - I'd suggest occasionally perhaps just handing them some of the more story-oriented stuff rather than requiring them to spend mechanical resources on it. Obviously, there wouldn't be too many opportunities to get a free house from someone, but they could certainly learn a new language or pick up a non-combat feat thematically appropriate to whatever they've ben doing in the campaign.
Alternately, flip it around. Have them spend their mechanical resources on the narrative stuff, with the assurance that the crunch will handle itself. Then hand out level-appropriate gear and weapons outside (above and beyond) of their normal treasure allowances which they can then spend on houses and bribes and whatever else. It may be tough to find the right balance, but changing the paradigm may shake them out of their mindset.

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There are reasons they call me Mad...

The problem is not your players actions - it's your own perception. Combat IS roleplaying and min/maxing or optimizing for combat IS min/maxing or optimizing for roleplaying. It's just simply a form of roleplaying that you may not enjoy as much as they do. But make no mistake - they're roleplaying.

What you're really talking about is in-character interaction which your players may have not one iota of interest in doing. And that would be perfectly normal and absolutely fine because that's their preference and what they want out of the game. Me, I like both and our games are full of both, but I'd be foolish to assume that everyone who shows up to play wants to the same thing out of the experience. So, the best advice is to simply talk to them directly. Tell them what you hope to see from them and ask if they're interested in doing that. If they're not, then they're not and you'll have to decide if that's a game you want to continue running. In any event, your approach and perceptions are kind of a turn-off as you're suggesting that one form of roleplaying is better than another (if I'm reading you correctly) and that's not a particularly great way to sell someone on a new idea. I also suspect that you're just kind of peeved that they're not interested in your stories.

If they do decide that they want to try more in-character interaction, then I would suggest you elicit this from them by way of leading questions and collaborative storytelling. Frame your questions in the context of your prep, then ask them to add some details. Then use those details. You can start small with atmospheric things that have little overall impact and expand into letting them establish all sorts of things in the game that they find interesting and with which their characters will then engage in in-character interaction.

You don't need 20 ranks of Profession (Fishing) to have been the World's Greatest Fisherman before becoming an adventurer. You just need to say that's what you are and have the DM say, "Yes, and what's the biggest fish you ever caught?"

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals  |  Full-Contact Futbol   |   Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs  |  Re-Imagining Phandelver  |  Three Pillars of Immersion

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